*****Official 2019/2020 Houston Astros offseason thread*****

1,041,459 Views | 9892 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by BMX Bandit
BQ07MM
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AG
So how quickly does Hinch get a new gig after the suspension?
bilbobag
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But in the end he didn't stop or say anything. With that being said, it leads me to believe Luhnow had a bigger part in it than most are considering. Hinch couldn't tell Luhnow but why not tell Crane?
diehard03
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Quote:

So how quickly does Hinch get a new gig after the suspension?

Very quickly. He basically is exposed as a mouthpiece for the front office...which will be very attractive to a lot of front offices.
Ag_07
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diehard03 said:

Quote:

So how quickly does Hinch get a new gig after the suspension?

Very quickly. He basically is exposed as a mouthpiece for the front office...which will be very attractive to a lot of front offices.


I think being one of the best managers in MLB will be attractive to a lot of front offices.

Hinch made a mistake. He saw something and never said anything. He'll be just fine.
Breggy Popup
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bilbobag said:

But in the end he didn't stop or say anything. With that being said, it leads me to believe Luhnow had a bigger part in it than most are considering. Hinch couldn't tell Luhnow but why not tell Crane?


MLB telling teams to cut it out happened on 9/15/17, basically at the start of the postseason. I doubt Hinch wanted to stir up an internal ****storm at that time.
Big Al 1992
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diehard03 said:

Quote:

So how quickly does Hinch get a new gig after the suspension?

Very quickly. He basically is exposed as a mouthpiece for the front office...which will be very attractive to a lot of front offices.


Richard Justice said behind the scenes AJ is planning an apology tour - segments on MLB Network, ESPN etc to explain what and why they did, supporting players etc. he absolutely will be managing again.
Big Al 1992
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Hell - Kermit Davis is coaching again at Ole Miss after he wrecked our Basketball program.
AustinCountyAg
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bilbobag said:

But in the end he didn't stop or say anything. With that being said, it leads me to believe Luhnow had a bigger part in it than most are considering. Hinch couldn't tell Luhnow but why not tell Crane?
he didn't stop it because he knew/knows other teams are/were doing similar things.



Lunhow IMO played a much bigger part in this that AJ did.
Mathguy64
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Hinch and Lunhow will get jobs almost immediately after the WS next year. Owners want to win and they are both the best at their jobs. There was a reason our front office got raided the last 2 years. Lunhow kneW how to put it together and make the pieces work. And don't underestimate Hinch's job the last 3 years. Lots of teams have talent. Keeping it all going in the same direction year after year without any real clubhouse issues, spreading the playing time, those are talents that not every manager has. If it were easy, lots of teams would be run better.

This franchise took a major blow yesterday. Only time will tell if they can recover. I'm not so sure but that we didn't see the beginning of the decline yesterday when Crane cut his nose off to spite his face.
Ag_07
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Crane did what he thought was best for his organization/business. He held people he trusted accountable for their mistakes.

This while Crane laid down and took it like a B is gonna end up like those who said he was a cheapskate and wouldn't shell out to build a champion.
AustinCountyAg
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I hope we whip some major ass this year.
TREX01
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AJ's actions were akin to coming home to some guy plowing your wife and throwing away the condoms. It does nothing to stop the problem.
W
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back in 2017...Carlos Beltran at age 40 and with 19 major league seasons under his belt...probably had more clout in the clubhouse than Hinch did...particularly among the many latin players.

Hinch was only 43 in 2017 and had a very pedestrian MLB career
W
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I agree. And Crane very well might have.

also...the loss of 1st round draft picks could hurt bad. We need to hope that the 2020 & 2021 drafts are full of 1st round busts. Some years they are
Cen-Tex
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AustinCountyAg said:

I hope we whip some major ass this year.
Me too! The 'stros should still have a solid team this year,... the future may hinge on the loss of the draft picks the next 2 years.
Deluxe
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A few TLDR thoughts:

It seems like the conviction and punishment from the commissioner's report yesterday break down into two parts: 1) the egregiousness of how far the Astros took electronic sign stealing/relaying practice and 2) the continuation of the practice in some way/shape/form after the commissioner issued his warning.

To me, the report implied that the fine and loss of draft picks were generally linked to the first offense and the suspensions of Hinch/Luhnow were generally linked to the second offense. What that tells me going forward as it relates to punishment of other teams:

-If it's retroactively proven that a team engaged in illegal sign stealing before 9/15/17 (the commissioner warning date) but there's no sound evidence the practice continued beyond that date and the decoding was only relayed to runners on base (not directly to hitters), punishments will be light. The Astros allege 8 other teams engaged in similar practices and guys like Logan Morrison seem to back that up. But the key questions are, again, 1) how far did they take the practice and 2) can it be proven that they continued after the warning.

-The Red Sox punishment should be very easily predictable if the recently reported 2018 allegations are true. In a vacuum, the manager and GM should certainly be suspended for one year based on the Astros precedent. Obviously the Red Sox case is tricky though because it's dealing with a manager who has multiple offenses and a GM who is now gone. But given their crime was less egregious (at least based on what we know right now), I suspect they will get off much easier on the fine/draft pick front. Same with other TBD post 9/15/17 offenders.

-With all that said on the Red Sox, Cora is absolutely effed. He is individually guilty of both counts as a coach and he's guilty of the latter count with two separate franchises. Bye bye.

One concerning aspect to this is how passive/reactive MLB seems to be in investigating these incidents. The only incidents mentioned in the commissioner's report yesterday were basically copy/pasted out of the Drellich/Rosenthal report. Is MLB taking the tact of only looking into alleged crimes that present themselves in the media via disgruntled former players? Given that the only two investigations we know about correspond to media reports, that could be the case. If so, that's disgustingly incompetent. If you really want to clean up the game, investigate everything. Every team. Every rumor.

With that said, I've also been toying with the idea that the Astros investigation yielded other damning practices the team engaged in, but the commissioner agreed to leave them out in exchange for full cooperation from Crane/the Astros. For example, the report doesn't give any specifics about the 2017 playoffs. The report could have just as easily given credence to all the Yankee/Dodger fan crying by pointing out specific incidences of electronic sign relaying against those teams. But it didn't.

But one bit of good news in the report is full vindication/exoneration on the 2019 allegations. All the Yankees crying about whistling were BS. We didn't cheat. We were just better than them. And all their fans pointing to the AJ comments making fun of the whistling paranoia look like idiots now (though they don't realize it). Hinch was actually telling the truth. And the bandaid zap theory...lol. Again, full exoneration on that from MLB. We had the best team in 2019 and we didn't cheat.

As for 2020, I hope the answer isn't to promote Espada and Putila, though I'm slowly resigning myself to that. If we were going to do that, I wish we would have just kept Hinch/Luhnow and retained the option to reinstate them next year. To me, the idea of letting them loose and starting fresh can be justified IF we can get the right people in those jobs ASAP (preferably before the 2020 season begins). Will be very interesting to see where this goes over the next month.

Lastly, one thing MLB did get right is the timing of the punishments. All the sports channels at the gym this morning were wall-to-wall coverage of the CFB national championship. And by tomorrow, all talk will be about the upcoming AFC/NFC conference championship games.
JDUB08AG
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People saying the Astros got off light don't seem to understand that Hinch and Luhnow orchestrated the success of this entire franchise. They are now both gone. You want the Astros to suffer...well there it is. Also, taking away 4 top round picks from a team that had success specifically from their top round draft picks...that is going to hurt.
CFTXAG10
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Great post! I agree on Espada, I'd rather hire a new manager if they can find a good candidate in short order. That and a Springer extension would make me happy.
MAROON
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AustinCountyAg said:






Lunhow IMO played a much bigger part in this that AJ did.
and yet MLB investigated it and came away and said they have no link between Lunhow and the scheme. So you are saying that EVERY player, lower level employee, and AJ Hinch were all interviewed, and they all lied to protect Lunhow while spilling the beans on everyone else? That is your conclusion? Really?



What do you boys want for breakfast BBQ ?.....OK Chili.
Thinice
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Losing the slot money for the top two picks hurts a lot as well.

It seems like we've been really good at saving slot money and using it to sign players over their slot space in subsequent rounds.
Wabs
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Deluxe said:

One concerning aspect to this is how passive/reactive MLB seems to be in investigating these incidents. The only incidents mentioned in the commissioner's report yesterday were basically copy/pasted out of the Drellich/Rosenthal report. Is MLB taking the tact of only looking into alleged crimes that present themselves in the media via disgruntled former players? Given that the only two investigations we know about correspond to media reports, that could be the case. If so, that's disgustingly incompetent. If you really want to clean up the game, investigate everything. Every team. Every rumor.
If they're "serious" about cleaning this up, the MLB better be prepared to fully investigate any rumor, allegation, etc. This is how the Astros thing started - and allegation/claim from a player.
Deluxe
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Thank you sir. Agreed. Lock up Springer and let's go to war the next two years with JV, Greinke, LMJ, Bregman, Altuve, Springer, etc. They're going to be mocked and ridiculed in every road ballpark next year, but I think those guys have the ability/mentality to harness that energy and say F you where it counts... on the scoreboard.
Farmer1906
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AustinCountyAg
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I am saying Jeff knew about it, and he knew of the warnings from the league office, and he could've shut them down if he wanted. Hence, me saying he was more involved (to me) in relation to the cheating/warnings/etc.

Day to day, yes AJ was more involved because it happened during the game, but to think AJ and Jeff never talked about it is foolish IMO.

I have a feeling that Jeff might've been the one who encouraged Cora and the team to steal signs from the get go? Maybe just putting a bug in his ear on how they might do it, and then looking the other way and never speak of it again type of deal?

Once again this is just my opinion. Don't flame on me because it differs from yours and what a MLB report might say.
Beat40
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That is going to be the most interesting thing about next year. We will get booed in several places next year. Will be interesting to see how the team responds to all of this on the field.

Spring training press conferences are going be interesting too.
Deluxe
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Farmer1906 said:


If every rumor out there isn't being checked out by MLB, then they are incompetent and yesterday wasn't much more than a dog and pony show designed to pretend that they care about cleaning up the game.
03_Aggie
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mathguy86 said:

Hinch and Lunhow will get jobs almost immediately after the WS next year. Owners want to win and they are both the best at their jobs. There was a reason our front office got raided the last 2 years. Lunhow kneW how to put it together and make the pieces work. And don't underestimate Hinch's job the last 3 years. Lots of teams have talent. Keeping it all going in the same direction year after year without any real clubhouse issues, spreading the playing time, those are talents that not every manager has. If it were easy, lots of teams would be run better.

This franchise took a major blow yesterday. Only time will tell if they can recover. I'm not so sure but that we didn't see the beginning of the decline yesterday when Crane cut his nose off to spite his face.


Weeell, about that part.
agdaddy04
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Well apparently the other owners are burning their heads in the sand then.
Breggy Popup
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Deluxe said:

Thank you sir. Agreed. Lock up Springer and let's go to war the next two years with JV, Greinke, LMJ, Bregman, Altuve, Springer, etc. They're going to be mocked and ridiculed in every road ballpark next year, but I think those guys have the ability/mentality to harness that energy and say F you where it counts... on the scoreboard.


If Springer signs an extension then I think they can maybe hold most of the core together. I still think Springer is going to go elsewhere now. I hope I am wrong.
Teddy Perkins
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agdaddy04 said:

Well apparently the other owners are burning their heads in the sand then.
As required by Manfred's gag order.

Quote:

Multiple ownership-level sources told ESPN that dissatisfaction with the penalties had emerged following a conference call with Manfred, in which he explained how the Astros would be disciplined, then told teams to keep their thoughts to themselves.


"The impression," one person familiar with the call told ESPN, "was that the penalty for complaining would be more than Houston got."
Farmer1906
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Deluxe said:

Farmer1906 said:


If every rumor out there isn't being checked out by MLB, then they are incompetent and yesterday wasn't much more than a dog and pony show designed to pretend that they care about cleaning up the game.


Deluxe
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Is Farmer1906 actually Jared Carrabis?
Texaggie7nine
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I get the sense that AJ and Jeff knew about it but didn't really like it. Obviously AJ didn't like it. But I think they felt that if so many other teams in the league are doing it and the players all want to do it (meaning no players approached them to say "hey, this is wrong and I'm not comfortable with it") then they should just look the other way and let the players play the same game other clubs are doing.
7nine
Farmer1906
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Deluxe said:

Is Farmer1906 actually Jared Carrabis?


I thought you were. Y'all said the same thing there.
Deluxe
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Nope. His Red Sox fan perspective is welcome though.
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