Rossko said:

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https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/mlb/diamondbacks/2019/08/06/chase-field-turf-playing-slower-taking-toll-diamondbacks-outfielders/1939615001/

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Ouch

Rossko said:

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https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/mlb/diamondbacks/2019/08/06/chase-field-turf-playing-slower-taking-toll-diamondbacks-outfielders/1939615001/

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Quote:

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By and large, the players haven't seemed to have any major issues with the surface.

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Quote:

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Ahmed said he hasn't experienced any bad hops on the infield, saying it behaves as close to grass as any artificial surface on which he has played. He also believes it is "definitely slower" than the grass used to be.

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Quote:

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In addition to the humidor, Ahmed said he thinks the turf is "probably part of" why Chase Field has played even more like a pitcher's park this season.

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Sounds like the park will help attract FA pitchers.

gigem1223 said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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Kinsler likely gets 5 more HRs. If he gets into the HoF, does he go in as a Ranger?
I'm surprised Lou Whitaker isn't in the HoF.
I'm also surprised to see how many played for Det.

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Kinsler a HOFer? Good lord man...

Your value of the past 2 Rangers 2nd baseman is way overinflated.

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I didn't say he was a HoF. I asked IF he does get in... would it be as a Ranger.

I think he is close, but not sure he has done enough. Here is an article from the beginning of the season:

https://calltothepen.com/2019/03/31/san-diego-padres-analyzing-ian-kinslers-hall-of-fame-chances/

Also, If he plays in 2020 (under contract with SD) and only does what he did in 2018 (last complete season):
2020: 128 G, 66 R, 117 H, 26 2B, 0 3B, 14 HR, 48 RBI, 16 SB, 40 BB, 64 SO, .240 BA
Added totals and where he would rank All-Time in AL 2B:
Total: 1308 R (4), 2115 H (8), 442 2B (4), 270 HR (2), 955 RBI (10), 259 SB (9)

He also has:
3 X GG
4 X AS

I was not a fan of Kinsler and was ready for him to go. Has done well for himself.

Padres have a team option for him in 2021.

There was a time when fans of MLB discussed players... I guess we don't do that, anymore.

wbt5845 said:

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Rossko said:

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https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/mlb/diamondbacks/2019/08/06/chase-field-turf-playing-slower-taking-toll-diamondbacks-outfielders/1939615001/

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Quote:

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By and large, the players haven't seemed to have any major issues with the surface.

---

Quote:

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Ahmed said he hasn't experienced any bad hops on the infield, saying it behaves as close to grass as any artificial surface on which he has played. He also believes it is "definitely slower" than the grass used to be.

---

Quote:

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In addition to the humidor, Ahmed said he thinks the turf is "probably part of" why Chase Field has played even more like a pitcher's park this season.

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Sounds like the park will help attract FA pitchers.

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According to some posters on this thread, that's a ridiculous belief.

Yep. And I've got this thread bookmarked to bring back up and bash them when the first FA pitcher signs who says the new ballpark was a selling point.

wbt5845 said:

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Yep. And I've got this thread bookmarked to bring back up and bash them when the first FA pitcher signs who says the new ballpark was a selling point.

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Make it count.

I don't know how some people can think that. The park and our weather has been the main reason pitchers have avoided us all these years. We should have more luck now with a roof.

I thought we already had quotes from Rangers about their legs and backs hurting after playing at Arizone this year.

Offense decided to take the day off

PatAg said:

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I thought we already had quotes from Rangers about their legs and backs hurting after playing at Arizone this year.

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I believe the narrative was pushed on here that it has been great for Arizona this year so far.

MSFC Aggie said:

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Offense decided to take the day off

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But the pitching has been pretty solid

If Young didn't get into the HOF then Kinsler sure as hell isn't getting in

etxag18 said:

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If Young didn't get into the HOF then Kinsler sure as hell isn't getting in

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You make a great point... I never even included MYoung in the list of Second Basemen... shows how much even I thought of him as a 2B.

Rossko said:

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PatAg said:

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I thought we already had quotes from Rangers about their legs and backs hurting after playing at Arizone this year.

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I believe the narrative was pushed on here that it has been great for Arizona this year so far.

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That article says the outfielders dont like it.

etxag18 said:

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If Young didn't get into the HOF then Kinsler sure as hell isn't getting in

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Not that either player is deserving, but Kinsler is a far more likely candidate than Michael Young. Young's bat wouldn't be good enough to get him in, but his glove more than disqualifies him.

Proposition Joe said:

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etxag18 said:

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If Young didn't get into the HOF then Kinsler sure as hell isn't getting in

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Not that either player is deserving, but Kinsler is a far more likely candidate than Michael Young. Young's bat wouldn't be good enough to get him in, but his glove more than disqualifies him.

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MYoung played multiple positions, and as we saw with Santana, the D just isn't going to easily translate.

He moved from 2B to SS, in order to accommodate Alfonso Soriano who was a baby about not wanting to move to CF. Once that happened, MY was no longer playing the position he was best suited for and had played for 3 yrs.

He moves to the other side of the field to SS, and played well enough for 4 years to hold the position. Then, Andrus takes over and MY moves to 3B and plays out the rest of his career as a 3B/Util guy.

On a crappy team for most of his career, he looks like a pretty good player, but nothing really special. What made him special (to Texas fans) was clubhouse related and that really doesn't garner much outside of local fans.

He was a below average fielding 2B, a below average fielding SS, and an absolute hack at 3B.

So it's rare that I set aside time to specifically watch a Rangers game these days (it's just on in the background while I'm doing something else).

But Friday night - I am sitting down to watch Allard pitch. I want to see if this was as much of a fleecing as it feels like it was.

Proposition Joe said:

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He was a below average fielding 2B, a below average fielding SS, and an absolute hack at 3B.

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Regarding 2B and SS, based on what?


He was a GG @ SS, so there is that. At least that year he was deemed the best defensive SS that season.

2002 - AL 2B (7 Qualified):
2nd in FPCT: .989 - Bret Boone, .988 - MY, .983 - Adam Kennedy, .982 - Hairston, .979 - Abernathy, .968 - Soriano

2nd in Es, with 9. Soriano had 23.
3rd in RF

That seems average.

2003 (9 Qualified)
3rd in FPCT (.987), Soriano was 8th (.975)
3rd in RF (5.03), Soriano was 5th (4.83)
3rd in E (10), Soriano was 9th (19)

That would be above average.

2004 AL SS (11 Qualified)
7th in FPCT (.972), 10th in RF (4.21)

Certainly below average. New position.

2005 AL SS (10 Qualified)
4th in FPCT (.974), 7th in RF (4.41). Jeter was 2nd in FPCT (.979) and 2nd in RF (4.76)

Average? However improved in his 2nd season.

2006 AL SS (9 Qualified)
1st in FPCT (.981), 2nd in RF (4.86). Jeter was 4th in FPCT (.975), 9th in RF (4.14) Jeter was aged 32 in 2006 and was awarded the GG

Not sure how you give Jeter the GG, other than him being a Yankee. MY certainly better than average.

2007 AL SS (11 Qualified)
4th in FPCT (.972), 5th in RF (4.58). Jeter was 5th in FPCT (.970), 11th (4.02)

Better than average.

MYoung had a career .977 FPCT @ SS and a RF of 4.52. 1 GG.
Jeter had a career .976 FPCT @ SS and a RF of 4.04. 5 GGs.


I'm not saying MYoung was great, but he was certainly not below average. Especially for a guy who was forced to move off of a position.

PatAg said:

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Rossko said:

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PatAg said:

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I thought we already had quotes from Rangers about their legs and backs hurting after playing at Arizone this year.

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I believe the narrative was pushed on here that it has been great for Arizona this year so far.

---

That article says the outfielders dont like it.

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That's why I posted it.

wbt5845 said:

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So it's rare that I set aside time to specifically watch a Rangers game these days (it's just on in the background while I'm doing something else).

But Friday night - I am sitting down to watch Allard pitch. I want to see if this was as much of a fleecing as it feels like it was.

---

The rangers beat writers keep saying Allard could be a #4 or #5 in our rotation for the next 5+ years. If we can get a guy like that for a reliever who is a free agent in a few months? Definitely would be a steal.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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He was a below average fielding 2B, a below average fielding SS, and an absolute hack at 3B.

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Regarding 2B and SS, based on what?


He was a GG @ SS, so there is that. At least that year he was deemed the best defensive SS that season.

2002 - AL 2B (7 Qualified):
2nd in FPCT: .989 - Bret Boone, .988 - MY, .983 - Adam Kennedy, .982 - Hairston, .979 - Abernathy, .968 - Soriano

2nd in Es, with 9. Soriano had 23.
3rd in RF

That seems average.

2003 (9 Qualified)
3rd in FPCT (.987), Soriano was 8th (.975)
3rd in RF (5.03), Soriano was 5th (4.83)
3rd in E (10), Soriano was 9th (19)

That would be above average.

2004 AL SS (11 Qualified)
7th in FPCT (.972), 10th in RF (4.21)

Certainly below average. New position.

2005 AL SS (10 Qualified)
4th in FPCT (.974), 7th in RF (4.41). Jeter was 2nd in FPCT (.979) and 2nd in RF (4.76)

Average? However improved in his 2nd season.

2006 AL SS (9 Qualified)
1st in FPCT (.981), 2nd in RF (4.86). Jeter was 4th in FPCT (.975), 9th in RF (4.14) Jeter was aged 32 in 2006 and was awarded the GG

Not sure how you give Jeter the GG, other than him being a Yankee. MY certainly better than average.

2007 AL SS (11 Qualified)
4th in FPCT (.972), 5th in RF (4.58). Jeter was 5th in FPCT (.970), 11th (4.02)

Better than average.

MYoung had a career .977 FPCT @ SS and a RF of 4.52. 1 GG.
Jeter had a career .976 FPCT @ SS and a RF of 4.04. 5 GGs.


I'm not saying MYoung was great, but he was certainly not below average. Especially for a guy who was forced to move off of a position.

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Your last paragraph shows why gold gloves are meaningless, which defeats your use of Young's gold glove further up...

His career defensive Rtot is negative at all positions. That's the definition of below average fielder.

Grapesoda2525 said:

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wbt5845 said:

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So it's rare that I set aside time to specifically watch a Rangers game these days (it's just on in the background while I'm doing something else).

But Friday night - I am sitting down to watch Allard pitch. I want to see if this was as much of a fleecing as it feels like it was.

---

The rangers beat writers keep saying Allard could be a #4 or #5 in our rotation for the next 5+ years. If we can get a guy like that for a reliever who is a free agent in a few months? Definitely would be a steal.

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And Martin will probabaly re-sign with us as well.

Fenrir said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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He was a below average fielding 2B, a below average fielding SS, and an absolute hack at 3B.

---

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Your last paragraph shows why gold gloves are meaningless, which defeats your use of Young's gold glove further up...

His career defensive Rtot is negative at all positions. That's the definition of below average fielder.

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Thanks. I don't track all of these new measures. I agree it demonstrates the flaw in GG awards, that is why I said he was awarded and not earned.

Looking at RTOT... seems a big flawed. Is "0" a theoretical baseline, or is there a valuation to using it as the break point.


MYoung:
SS: -47 (10Seasons, 793 G): -25, -29, +4, -8, +9
2B: -17 (448 G)
3B: -36 (465 G)

Specifically with MYoung... if you take out his 1st two season as a SS (-54), the rest of his career is a positive. For someone who played twice as many games at 2B, than SS to get moved during his MLB career, to become an average SS, it pretty impressive.


Jeter was -186 (20 Seasons, 2674 G)

2005 (SS):
Uribe: +11
Peralta: +7
Jeter: -5
Tejada: -5
Lugo: -2
Berroa: -8
Cabrera: -11
Adams: -15
Renteria: -16
MY: -29


2006 (SS):
1. Guillen +6
2. MY +4
3. Peralta +3
3. Betancourt +3
5. Uribe +1
6. Cabrera -2
7. Jeter -4
8. Tejada - 11
8. Berroa - 11

2007 (SS):
Pena: +12
Bartlett: +4
Cabrera 0
Lugo: -1
Betancourt: -1
Uribe: -2
Tejada: -4
Peralta: -5
MY: -8
Guillen: -12
Jeter: -13

I didn't bother with 2008.

Arbitrarily removing the best or worst seasons would certainly make things look different. Even taking those out he was more or less replacement level as a fielder those years that we have left.

0 on Rtot is like 0 on WAR. It indicates a replacement level player.

Young was a below average fielder over his career. Like most below average fielders, he had a few seasons where he was above average. That doesn't change the general trend. There is another metric, Rdrs, that shows the same trend.

First, I'm not saying MY is a good defender, or even an average defender. I am trying to understand the stat. While I've been accused of using obscure stats, I like to stick to the traditional stats. So, thank you for helping me understand your frame of reference.

I don't think looking at the trend for a player moved to a new position is arbitrary. It isn't like saying, "this is his worst year, so remove it." My point was, in his 1st year at SS... even his 2nd year... wouldn't surprise me that his numbers reflected a very poor performance. His next 3 years shows remarkable improvement. That isn't to say he became a good or average defender, but that he was much better than when he originally started there, based on the stat you gave (RTot).

Having said that, I don't understand what it is comparing. Does it compare all players in a given year or does it take the totality of ALL MLB players in their entirety and compare them? Or does it include anyone who played in a given year, and the sum total should be 0?

Take 2005. 10 SS Qualified and only 2 of them are above "average." Total=+18. You have 8 players below "average" and their total is -91.

Take 2007. 11 SS Qualified. Only 2 of them are above "average." Total=+16. There is 1 average player and the reamining 8 players are below "average" defense. Total: -46.

I was wrong earlier, it is average not replacement level. As far as I know the formula for the individual components that make up the sum total (Rtot) is not available but it's considered by baseball reference to be the best took for comparing Fielding data across the various eras of baseball. It's methods can go back to the 1950s iirc.

[url=https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/08/rangers-notes-kiner-falefa-pence-closer-volquez.html][/url]Rangers putting end to Isiah Kiner-Falefa's time at catcher
[url=https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/08/rangers-notes-kiner-falefa-pence-closer-volquez.html][/url]
Originally posted on MLB Trade Rumors | By Steve Adams | Last updated 8/8/19

The Rangers have essentially put an end to Isiah Kiner-Falefa's days as a catcher, writes Jeff Wilson of the Forth Worth Star-Telegram. Kiner-Falefa, 24, was drafted as an infielder and didn't suit up behind the plate until being asked to learn the position in 2016. He's logged 30-plus games behind the dish each year since that 2016 campaign, and manager Chris Woodward said this week that Kiner-Falefa might catch on rare occasions, but he'll now function primarily as an infielder.
Learning such a demanding position in the upper minors and at the MLB level is no easy task, and Kiner-Falefa candidly acknowledged that while he was 100% dedicated to learning the craft, he was still uncomfortable behind the plate.
"When I was catching this year, I was feeling a lot of pressure just based on the pitcher's career," he said. "I did everything I could to call the game the right way, be the best receiver I could possibly, and I kind of forgot everything else."
Kiner-Falefa added that he feels as though he's "home" again, returning to his infield roots.

Interesting overview of Ranger minor league pitching and the 40 man roster crunch.


These pitchers in the minors should, could, may not get second-half look with Rangers


Kolby Allard joined Triple A Nashville a week ago, two days after he was traded to the Texas Rangers by the Atlanta Braves.
He was in Gwinnett, Ga., home of the Braves' Triple A team, and Nashville was home, so he packed up his car and headed northwest. Allard made his debut in the Rangers organization Saturday, tossing five scoreless innings.

Allard is set for his Rangers debut Friday, and he was scheduled to join the club Thursday in Milwaukee on an off day before the three-game series against the Brewers.

That's nine busy days for the left-hander, who turns 22 on Tuesday. A former first-round pick, Allard anticipated that he would get a chance to pitch for the Rangers, though maybe not this quickly.

But he is a piece of the Rangers' plan for the rest of the season. They need to see young starting pitchers, as they are doing with Ariel Jurado and Pedro Payano, and Allard won't be the last pitcher called up from the minors to get a crack at MLB hitters.

PROBABLE
Joe Palumbo: He might have beaten Allard to the Rangers' rotation this month if not for an injured left ankle that took him off the mound last month. The lefty is throwing again for Nashville, though he tossed only 2 2/3 innings Sunday in his first appearance off the injured list. Manager Chris Woodward didn't guarantee anything, but strongly suggested Palumbo, who has been with the Rangers a few times this season, will be called up as soon as his arm strength is built up again.

Brock Burke: Another left-hander on the 40-man roster, Burke was recently promoted to Nashville from Double A Frisco in what could be a last test before joining the Rangers. Woodward has said that he wants to see Burke, who impressed in spring training but has been slowed by a blister and shoulder fatigue. The prize of the Jurickson Profar trade, Burke could be making his MLB debut this season.
Joe Barlow: He isn't a starter, but is considered a future long-term bullpen piece along with Emmanuel Clase and Demarcus Evans. Barlow was moved to Nashville last month, a move that seemed like a precursor to a big-league promotion. Clase beat him the Rangers as part of the roster overall last week, but Barlow should be coming up before season's end. He is one of several prospects who must be added to the 40-man roster by mid-November to avoid exposure to the Rule 5 draft. It makes sense to do it sooner rather than later.
QUESTIONABLE
Yohander Mendez: Yes, Mendez is still in the organization and still has a minor-league option. He injured his elbow during spring training and just this week was able to pitch two innings for Frisco. Mendez has been given multiple opportunities by the Rangers, so they might know what they're getting. He's also on the 60-day injured list, and getting him on the 40-man roster could present a problem. If he is promoted, don't expect him before rosters expand Sept. 1.
Luke Farrell: Is there any doubt Farrell would have already pitched for the Rangers this season if not for a line drive to the jaw in spring training? The right-hander has MLB experience, which is more than Payano or Palumbo could say at the start of the season. Farrell has slowly worked his way back and has joined Mendez at Frisco on rehab assignment. Farrell faces the same obstacle, the 40-man crunch, but the Rangers don't know nearly as much about him as Mendez.

Demarcus Evans: The third member of the next wave of relievers, along with Clase and Barlow, Evans has been nearly as effective at Frisco as he was at High A Down East to start the season. He just worked on consecutive days for the first time this season. Evans doesn't have the same velocity as Clase and Barlow, though his is nothing to sneeze at, but his over-the-top curveball might be a better secondary pitch than the other two offer. His command just isn't quite as sharp. Like Barlow, Evans needs a spot on the 40-man roster. This one could go either way.
DOUBTFUL
Jonathan Hernandez: The clock is ticking on Hernandez, who joined the 40-man roster after the 2017 season but has struggled the past 1 1/2 seasons at Frisco. This righty throws hard, but at times hasn't hit the strike zone. He has shown flashes of the promise that made him a top-10 prospect, but the Rangers have also recently experimented with him as a multi-inning reliever. He hasn't been good enough to deserve a big-league promotion.
Tyler Phillips: The reigning Rangers Minor League Pitcher of the Year picked up where he left off, showing dominating form at Down East. But Double A has been a challenge for Phillips, a control artist who is being forced to make adjustments against a more advanced batch of hitters. He did that over seven innings Wednesday night. Phillips is a candidate to be added to the 40-man roster before to avoid Rule 5 exposure. It just might not happen during the season.

Good stuff.

The Rule V guys are the concern.
From your post: Joe Barlow, YoMen (from 60IL), Luke Farrell, Demarcus Evans, Tyler Phillips
Need to be protect.

That's 5 guys.

There are others that may or may not need protecting. Guys like LeDarious Clark.

I don't think Nick Solak is eligible.

Yeah, we have a bunch of RPs that could be dumped.

Kind of crazy that a year ago YoMen was our top pitching prospect and now he is on the verge of potentially not being protected in the Rule 5 draft.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Yeah, we have a bunch of RPs that could be dumped.

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Who do you think those will be?

MSFC Aggie said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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Yeah, we have a bunch of RPs that could be dumped.

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Who do you think those will be?

---

Bird (26), Montero (28), Carle (27)...St John (26)... Gibaut (26).

5 Ks in he first two innings for Allard. I like....

wbt5845 said:

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5 Ks in he first two innings for Allard. I like....

---

He looks good so far!

The only thing I don't like is the umpire taking a giant crap on him every single inning he goes out there.

KT 90 said:

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[url=https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/08/rangers-notes-kiner-falefa-pence-closer-volquez.html][/url]Rangers putting end to Isiah Kiner-Falefa's time at catcher
[url=https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/08/rangers-notes-kiner-falefa-pence-closer-volquez.html][/url]
Originally posted on MLB Trade Rumors | By Steve Adams | Last updated 8/8/19

The Rangers have essentially put an end to Isiah Kiner-Falefa's days as a catcher, writes Jeff Wilson of the Forth Worth Star-Telegram. Kiner-Falefa, 24, was drafted as an infielder and didn't suit up behind the plate until being asked to learn the position in 2016. He's logged 30-plus games behind the dish each year since that 2016 campaign, and manager Chris Woodward said this week that Kiner-Falefa might catch on rare occasions, but he'll now function primarily as an infielder.
Learning such a demanding position in the upper minors and at the MLB level is no easy task, and Kiner-Falefa candidly acknowledged that while he was 100% dedicated to learning the craft, he was still uncomfortable behind the plate.
"When I was catching this year, I was feeling a lot of pressure just based on the pitcher's career," he said. "I did everything I could to call the game the right way, be the best receiver I could possibly, and I kind of forgot everything else."
Kiner-Falefa added that he feels as though he's "home" again, returning to his infield roots.

---

One of the things I really like about the IKF situation is... as fans, we pencil players and create these fantasy lineups, like it is nothing. Gallo disclosed last year, when they abandoned the idea of him at 3B... he said he wanted to part of return to 3B. I can respect that. With Santana, he indicated he was going to be very nervous playing 1B for the 1st time in a game. Santana has warmed to the idea, but I have suggested I would yield to Woody on where he puts Santana.

I had just assumed IKF was staying at C, and he clearly is happy to not be catching anymore. If called on? I'm sure he could be an emergency catcher.