Farmer1906 said:

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expresswrittenconsent said:

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Ag_07 said:

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Here's a interesting off day discussion...

If the book is indeed closed on Cole's career as an Astro does his #45 jersey hang from the rafters at some point?

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It's a pretty easy "NO". That shouldn't take away from his impact and importance but comeon.

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Agreed.

I think the bar for retiring numbers has been way too low in Houston.

I would do it like this:
yes - bagwell, biggio, oswalt, ryan
maybe - berkman, cruz, cedeno, wynn, richard, dierker
no - everyone else for now

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Altuve is the only lock right now from this current team. Springer will add his name to the list if we win this WS and he's named MVP....

Farmer1906 said:

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expresswrittenconsent said:

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Ag_07 said:

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Here's a interesting off day discussion...

If the book is indeed closed on Cole's career as an Astro does his #45 jersey hang from the rafters at some point?

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It's a pretty easy "NO". That shouldn't take away from his impact and importance but comeon.

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Agreed.

I think the bar for retiring numbers has been way too low in Houston.

I would do it like this:
yes - bagwell, biggio, oswalt, ryan
maybe - berkman, cruz, cedeno, wynn, richard, dierker
no - everyone else for now

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I would put Dierker in the Yes category. For his play on the field and time in the dugout. Fat Elvis is close.

Maybe I would say they are worthy of the LF HOF area but not worthy of retiring their number.

Ag_07 said:

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Yeah but Beltran doesn't hold any franchise records.

Only reason I think debatable is Cole surpassed Nolan and JR for a handful of single season records.

Maybe we see that he ends up in this new HOF out in LF.

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I could see him in that Astros HOF. But I do agree with the other poster that whatever recognition Cole gets from the Astros one day, Keuchel deserves the same.

I also liken it to the Randy Johnson situation. He pitched ridiculously for the half season he was with us but doesn't really get any accolades for that season with us.

At the end of the day, Cole is special and this season was special, but it means absolutely **** if he leaves.

Farmer1906 said:

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Since its an off day.

Here are the current pitchers that got 7+ year contracts.

Tanaka - 7 year - 155 M - signed at age 25
He has one more year. I would say, in general, this worked out okay. His per year is 22 M which isn't crazy. From 14-19 he ranks 20th for WAR for starting pitchers. His real value has been in the postseason.

Price - 7 year - 217 M - signed at age 30
With 3 years and 96 M left, I cannot see this working out well for Boston. Price was never able to recapture the elite form he had with the Rays. His WAR since signing it is similar to guys like Tanner Roark & Gio Gonzalez. Complete boat anchor of a contract.

Strasburg - 7 year - 175 M - signed at age 27
I believe this was an extension before he hit the open market (someone correct me if wrong). 2x All Star and finished in the top 3 of the Cy once. He's been good and probably worth his 25 per. Assuming there isn't a steep decline from ages 31-34, this one might work out well.

Scherzer - 7 year - 210 M - signed at age 30
When this was announced I was flabbergasted that he got this deal. I KNEW it wouldn't work out. but since 2015 he's the best pitcher in baseball. 5x AS, 2 CYs, 2 more top 5 Cys (probably a 3rd this year). He's got 2 years left and he hasn't too many signed of slowing down. The WS injury is something to pay attention to moving forward.

Maeda - 8 year - 25 M - signed at age 28
Not really applicable, but acknowledging it happened.

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and the other part of this is the opportunity cost. What players could these teams have acquired (or retained) if they had not paid these pitchers' huge salaries.

one example...Price's mega contract (along with Sale's) may prevent the Red Sox from resigning Betts

Farmer1906 said:

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Buck Compton said:

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It's not a discussion and the answer is no. There's already too many up there.

Being in the rafters should mean you were an all-time great and spent like 85% of that career (and most of those accomplishments) in Houston.

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so no Ryan for Verlander for you?

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No. Not unless Verlander pitches out his career for us until his early 40s. Ryan was a mercenary and played for a long time for 4 teams. He isn't iconic for us, hell he's in the actual HOF as a Ranger.

One of the greatest pitchers ever, but not a rafters #. In our newly created Astros HOF? Of course.

Biggio, Bagwell are no doubters. I know it was only 9 seasons but Oswalt's dominance in an Astros uniform probably gets him there.

Berkman, Cruz, Cedeno, and Wynn are probably next up, but not 100% sold on all of them (Cruz over Wynn based on accomplishments in Houston. Dierker could be there too thanks to his manager stint. I would have trouble even including all of them.

Altuve is the only one from the current team that has earned it (so far). Springer and Bregman could both get there if they stick around. I expect Correa to leave as well

I say yes, what Cole has done has been amazing.
and yes, Verlander's number will be in the rafters

by the way, I'm going tomorrow night with the mrs. who else is going to be there?

If Springer wins MVP they have to pick up the trophy and say "here George, take it back."

Ag_07 said:

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jopatura said:

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At the end of the day, Cole is special and this season was special, but it means absolutely **** if he leaves.

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Really?

Dude was a stud on and off the mound for the two best teams in this franchises history. He had the best single season pitching performance in franchise history.

So because he decides to go elsewhere as a FA his contributions mean shlt?

GTFOH

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Yeah in 10 years when the historians look back, his time with the Astros will be a footnote if he doesn't stay. Maybe he'll throw out a first pitch in a World Series for us in the 2030's.

Harry Stone said:

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Interesting fact: Dating back to the 2nd to last game of the regular season, the Astros have now gone 17 games without scoring more than 4 runs in an inning, the longest streak of the season. Time to end it tomorrow.

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Yeah, they haven't been playing the Angels.

I'll admit I'm surprised to see Berkman so high on that list of all-time WS performers. I asked myself how good he must have been in the other series he played in to make up for 2005, so I looked it up to see he had an OPS of 1.065 that year. That really shocked me. My memory was telling me that the combined team didn't have an OPS that high.

And it still doesn't look like he'll ever get into the HOF.

???

W said:

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Teddy Perkins said:

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Morning twitter tidbits.

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Hinch has a chance to separate himself from many of the one-year wonder managers that won 1 world series.

if the Astros win tomorrow or Wednesday, Hinch will be on par with the likes of Tommy Lasorda, Terry Francona, Cito Gaston, and others

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Hinch is better than Tito, managing circles around Cito and don't get me started on that fat lasagna eating POS.

here's one...if Verlander wins Cy Young and wins tomorrow does he retire and get inducted in Cooperstown in an Astros hat?

would be at least debatable at that point

gigemJTH12 said:

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here's one...if Verlander wins Cy Young and wins tomorrow does he retire and get inducted in Cooperstown in an Astros hat?

would be at least debatable at that point

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Not with the MLB deciding. Unless he finds a way to do it again next year.

The career in Detroit and accumulation of stats will trump the team accomplishments. If he pitches for us until he is 41-42 and retires, then maaaaaybe then.

oh MLB decides that??

dang I didnt know that.

Well we have a long way to go in this series. But if he won it and maybe got another, I dont think they could deny him being inducted an Astro.

again...long ways to go.

Astros had more retired numbers for a franchise that never won anything. Bagwell, Biggio, Ryan, Cruz, Scott, Don Wilson, Dierker, Wynn, Jim Umbright. Those along with Jackie Robinson. Wilson pitches 2 no hitters and died in an offseason which contributed to his number being retired. Umbright was before my time but had cancer which contributed to the number being retired. I said 5 years ago that if the Astros ever won the whole thing, they would have to retire so many numbers that they would have to go to 3 digit numbers or use symbols to identify players. But one that needs their number retired is their all time pitching wins leader- joe niekro.

dshedd41 said:

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by the way, I'm going tomorrow night with the mrs. who else is going to be there?

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I'll be up in 407

Dan, you're forking out the cash this playoff season, my brother. Great to see!

https://thefandc.radio.com/max-scherzer-likely-done-world-series

Looks like Scherzer is done.

Quote:

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"All I can say is, at least two people I talked to (Sunday) that have talked to him, I don't think there's any chance he pitches in Game 7," Paulsen told The Sports Junkies.

"One of the people said basically, 'There's no way, it's absolutely not happening,'" Paulsen said Monday on The Fan. "The other one was like, 'Well, let's just see what happens with the cortisone shots and all that.' But I mean their expectation as of when he told them he couldn't go basically was, 'We'll see you in spring training,' at that moment."

Of course, there is still the slim possibility Scherzer is able to pitch in Game 7 if the Nationals get there. Nobody in the right mind would doubt Scherzer's toughness, especially after a 10-strikeout performance in June against the Philadelphia Phillies just one day after breaking his nose and sporting a large black eye.

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Props to the dude for pitching with a jacked up face, but you kinda need upper body machinery all working to successfully pitch a baseball. Sucks he can't be there to work for his team.

third coast.. said:

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spadilly said:

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dshedd41 said:

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by the way, I'm going tomorrow night with the mrs. who else is going to be there?

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I'll be up in 407

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Sky high in 406

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Mine are high up in 406 as well.

I have listed them for $800 each though, just in case someone is willing to pay that. I'd be willing to sit at a bar for that.

third coast.. said:

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spadilly said:

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dshedd41 said:

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by the way, I'm going tomorrow night with the mrs. who else is going to be there?

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I'll be up in 407

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Sky high in 406

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yeah me too - going with FIL/BIL, were just happy to be in the building - cant recall which section were in.

Any others with SRO?