Markakis got to 2101 last night. Guy should get over 2200+ by the end of the year...BELIEVE!

NotGibbs said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say the debate of whether Nick Markakis should be in the hall of fame with 3000 hits never happens. He's not going to reach that number.

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I think you're probably right, but it'll definitely be fun to watch. I don't think anyone in the world has ever said "Man, I really hate Nick Markakis". I can't think of a single reason he should be disliked.

Fun fact: Markakis played for the Greek Olympic basketball team back in 2004

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I'm not so sure

I've been meaning to come back and bump this thread now that Markakis has made an all star team. He's been having one hell of a season

And yes, I meant basketball. Wouldn't have really been an interesting fact if it was baseball

Maybe he was an alternated or played in some of the qualifying games, but it doesn't appear he was on the actual squad that played at the Olympics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_at_the_2004_Summer_Olympics__Men%27s_team_rosters

He did play on the baseball team though.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_at_the_2004_Summer_Olympics__Team_squads

My mistake. Just looked into it, and it was for baseball. I guess his Wikipedia page had a typo on it when I was originally reading it

2,172 hits for Markakis at the break.

could reach 2,240 or 2,250 by the end of the season

The most likely scenario for Markakis is that he ends up like Michael Young, slows down, and retires well short of 3000.

However, if he were to get 3000 hits, this thread would be moot, because he would make the HOF. You don't like my opinion? Fine, don't listen to it. But why not elect him and let him be anonymous, just like half the guys who played before 1920?

5 hits for Markakis tonight.

should go past 2,250 by next week

Up to 2281 for Markakis.

Also walking more than he strikes out so far this year.

So it would appear that Markakis not only made is FIRST all star team at the age of 34, dude played in ALL 162 games, and had his highest hit total since 2010.

Will hit 2400 this season with a normal 2nd half.

Leading the league in games played so far again. It's just a matter of staying healthy. It would be great and I'm pulling for him but I don't think there's any way a guy whose average WAR is about 2.5 per season is going to make the HOF.

I'm a fan, but he's basically just a very healthy Josh Reddick.

Harry Dunne said:

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Leading the league in games played so far again. It's just a matter of staying healthy. It would be great and I'm pulling for him but I don't think there's any way a guy whose average WAR is about 2.5 per season is going to make the HOF.

I'm a fan, but he's basically just a very healthy Josh Reddick.

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3000 hits is more than 2992. Just ask Fred McGriff.

this expression is usually associated with football, but...

"the best ability is availability"

and Markakis excels at that no doubt.

the Braves have a $6 MM option on him for 2020. It should be a no-brainer to exercise it

I don't see how it's much of a debate, if he gets 3k, he's in the hall of fame. Baseball is a numbers game and 3000 hits is one of the benchmark numbers by which great careers are measured by. Especially because we just watched Harold Baines and Edgar Martinez get elected, the standards for the baseball hall of fame have been adjusted to be a bit more inclusive. (room for debate on whether this is a good thing or not)

Also, in the early part of his career he had a cannon for an arm and had a ton of outfield assists. Hasn't been like that recently, not sure if that's because he's old and his arm has regressed or because people just don't run on him anymore. As an all around player, if he makes it to 3k he's a hall of famer and I don't even think he'd be that controversial.

BUT..... I tend to think he won't make it to 3000 because of age and regression along with the fact that the Braves have Acuna, Inciarte, Riley and two of the top outfield prospects in the game knocking on the doors of the big leagues. So his days of being a 162 game a year player may be over as soon as next year. I'm not sure another team would be willing to give him a full time gig either, so even if he does play, say 5 more years after this one, he is not going get enough at bats per year to make it to 3k.

I hope you're right and I would vote for him. I just don't think others will.

Its questionable if the Braves will even pick up his option. As mentioned, they are getting crowded in the outfield as is. It probably depends on if he has a bad second half like last year again.

As was said above, availability is half the battle. He would have played 162 for the Astros over the past several years including 2017. George Springer is the only outfielder to have played 140 games or more since the team has been competitive again and the third outfielder has generally been a journeyman type.

Maybe not 162 games, but if he keeps on playing at the same level teams will find enough ABs for him to get to 3000.

If the Braves don't pick up his option, I don't think anyone else gives him a starting job. He would be lucky to get another 2 year deal at best. One of the dirty secrets of getting to 3000 hits is that you have to have earned enough good will with your team for them to keep running you out there even when you become a negative WAR player. Look at the last few guys to make it to 3000, they were negative players when they made it for the most part. There are exceptions like Jeter and Beltre who were still good ballplayers when they got to 3000, but usually a team is sending a black hole up to the plate just to get 3000.

That's true, and it's possible that no one gives him a starting job but IF he stays healthy & keeps on playing at the same level he will get enough ABs to get there.

He is still playing at the level of an average starting MLB outfielder. Like I said, the Astros have not had even 2 starting outfielders healthy for the whole season since they have been competitive.
I'm sure some team would love to have him come fill the Carlos Beltrn mentor role in the clubhouse and at this point he's a more valuable player on the field than Beltran was in 2017.

He could get injured and he will probably decline but if he does not he will definitely get the ABs somewhere.

I just looked through his career stat line, because I'm bored... he actually had a season where he played 156 games as a corner outfielder and only hit 3 home runs and had just 2 stolen bases. I've been a long time fan of his, but seasons like that (in addition to another where he finished negative WAR while supposedly in his prime) might make this more interesting than I thought even if he does get to 3000 hits somehow.

To me, it's not that close. He can finish with 3000 hits, 3100 hits, or 2900 hits. He's not a HOFer.

Have to agree with that.

Has anyone ever said "Nick Markakis is one of the best 5 (or even 7, 10?) outfielders in baseball" after a season?

He's clearly been a good player, but if the answer to that question isn't a definitive "Yes!" then I don't want that player in the Hall of Fame.

Deserved or not, if he gets 3000 hits he's getting in for sure

My money is on his finishing closer to 2500 than 3000

It's not going to happen but it would be worse than Harold Baines.

Soon players will show up to the All-Star game and their bronzed plaques will be sitting in their lockers waiting for them

All star game is for players having a good season comparitively to their peers, hall of fame is essentially the same thing but now a players career in comparison to his peers & all other players that have ever played. If he gets to 3000, a number that only 31 men ever have, I consider that a hall of fame worthy accomplishment.

Now as I've stated earlier in this thread, I don't see him getting the at bats to get there unless Miami or some other bottom feeder is ok letting him play until 40, but it would be a really interesting test for the hall.

I agree, I've never thought of him as a hall of fame on a day to day basis, but his body of work will include 3 gold gloves and possibly 3000 hits. Now what if the braves win the world series this year and he has a Joe carter moment? And then goes on to 3000? People might look at this differently.

I was kind of thinking about Ian Kinsler the same way last post season. If he could have had a signature moment like a walk off game or series clinching home run, that might make his hall of fame case more interesting. As it stands now he's got no chance, but big world series moments stick with voters.

Gold glove is the best defender that is also a good hitter and popular. Such a meaningless award.

Raffy Palmeiro points his finger at you in disagreement circa 1999

Doesn't your argument against the gold gloves having value just strengthen the other side of the argument in regards to whether he was ever regarded as "one of the best" at his position?

I definitely won't get into an argument about whether gold gloves are really an indicator of his defensive prowess, but by your argument, for three years he was popular enough to win the award and thus clearly well regarded.

Only 31 men have 3000 hits, I say he's a hall of famer if he gets 3000. If baseball isn't going to have magic numbers like 500 home runs, 300 wins or 3000 hits then just decide who gets into the hall of fame based purely on WAR and don't even hold a vote.

No it's a popularity contest. Jeter won 5 and he was a terrible SS.

the all-star game / all-star appearances can be a tricky metric as well.

it may come as a surprise...but Jeff Bagwell was only a 4-time all-star...and all 4 of his appearances came in the Astrodome era between 1994 and 1999. Despite the fact that he had some monster seasons at MMP.

he was hurt by fans' fascination with Coors Field rockstars and 'roid-fueled sluggers playing first base.

that's a big reason why MVP finishes should be taken much more into consideration for Hall of Famers. They cover the full season

What it comes down to for me is what our definition of a hall of famer really is. Mariano Rivera just went in to the hall of fame and his highest finish in the MVP voting was 9th (twice). He did finish as high as 2nd in the Cy Young voting (probably a better metric for a pitcher) but then that means that a pitcher who never won the Cy Young just went in first ballot. Keep in mind this guy went in with 100% of the votes as well. So to me that says that certain skills are valued by the community at large but not recognized necessarily by the end of season awards.

It's hard to get hits, and it's hard to be consistent for 15-18 years staying healthy and putting up numbers. I know there is bias against the "compilers" but you have to be good enough in general to get a chance to compile. At least hits is a timeless stat that we know helps a team win. He's really good at a thing that contributes to teams winning. Obviously there are flashier things to be good at, but I'd have taken prime Markakis on my team in a heartbeat. The 2011 Rangers sure could have used a right fielder who could catch a fly ball... bad memories.

And Farmer, re-read my post. I agree it's a popularity contest, but the fact that he won a popularity contest says something about how he was regarded as an overall player at that time. And, those gold gloves were spread out with big gaps in between them, so it's not like his star is badly faded and he had only a short time as a good player.

For me, Markakis is a player who never jumps off the screen at you in any one year, but the overall resume who will submit when he's done will be more impressive than any of his individual seasons.