CSWendt said:

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knoxtom said:

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CSWendt said:

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Stop complaining for the sake of it. JD Davis was never one of those guys we didn't want to trade. The hang ups were with big prospects like Tucker, Fisher, Whitley. If you're going to whine, at least be intelligent about it.

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If you look at Lunhow's record throughout his Astros tenure, he isn't very good. The team is only good because they were so bad for so long. His hit rate is shockingly low, he was just given a lot of chances to hit.

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If it was so easy to turn a bad team into a historically good one, then every GM would be doing it. Instead, you see teams sit in the cellar for decades. Lunhow has done a fantastic job building a winner.

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This right here, this captures why this board continues to go toxic...b/c of statements like this which fail to acknowledge the problem.

This isn't early June anymore, we're getting into the middle of August and they're just 2 games over .500 in the last 2+ months. Let's say that being swept by the White Sox is the bottom (I mean, it is, but let's say that was the last straw and fired them up) and they rediscover the same stride for the last 48 games of the season that they had in the first 48. They'll finish 103-59...that will be "historical" by 1-game for the franchise ('98 team won 102)...in terms of MLB history, nobody outside our bubble would remember the '17 Astros in 5 years unless they go all the way.

In other words, this team went from being historically good to just another team that will likely win their division and might hold onto the best record in the league if they can stop pooping their pants; it's time to wake-up and realize that this is no longer trending as a special season and it's not b/c of a bad week or two.

Now, while I don't agree with the fatalism of what the OP here is saying, it's time to acknowledge that Luhnow is at the tipping point for his tenure and there's plenty of fair criticism there.

He has been the GM during two historical seasons, but as we're sitting here today, it's not 2015 or 2017...it's 2012 & 2013 when the team lost 111 & 107 games respectively, marking the two worst seasons in franchise history. That wasn't Luhnow's fault, that was straight Drayton Mclane boobery, the man who brought you Tim Purpura to replace Gerry Hunsicker after he ran Hunsicker off and then refused to let his GM with an obvious eye for talent, sign draft picks and then made him shed salary so that he could squeeze the highest margins out of a sale of the team.

However, Luhnow inherited a system which had Jose Altuve, George Springer, Dallas Keuchel, etc.

Luhnow pulled a great maneuver in his first draft skipping over Buxton/Appel to draft Correa b/c he knew he could sign him below slot which would allow him to have the money to sign the top of the 1st round talent which slipped to the 2nd due to "signability" in Lance McCullers.

Also; and I believe this was on day 1 of his tenure; there was the Rule 5 draft where he executed a trade with the Red Sox for Marwin after they had drafted him from the Cubs.

He got very fortunate that a mistake with the #1 pick in the 2014 draft (Brady Aiken) turned into a supplemental pick for #2 in 2015 and that turned into Bregman. The fact remains, however, that while Aiken and his agent should shoulder the fault for a lot of the shadiness behind his injuries/health...Luhnow and his team should've done more homework. Again, this is a win and just like I'm not going to deny the Texans credit for finding a solution on a mistake with Osweiller b/c they were able to turn the opportunity into Deshaun Watson, I believe Luhnow deserves credit here.

He has been savvy about putting off fan pressure so that the organization gets favorable contract timetables in terms of service time from guys like Springer and Correa.

However, there are plenty of things to be concerned over:

1.) 6 drafts and only a single starting pitcher that has been able to stick with the big club; although I believe Martes will be the 2nd

2.) Released J.D. Martinez at 26, he would go on to be an All Star and win a Silver Slugger award and have a high OPS in every season since...including his 1st season with Detroit which came after he was released during Spring training in 2014

3.) Made Tony Sipp an albatross with a ridiculous contract and he can't cut his losses

4.) Carlos Gomez

5.) While he got Fiers in the same trade, nobody here is thinking "wow, what luck!"...the Brewers, however, ARE saying that. They got a bullpen lefty specialist out of the deal named Josh Hader; looked at his stats here in his rookie season? (22.1 IP and an ERA of 0.81 in 17 appearance) They also got Domingo Santana, at 24, he is a key component in the middle of the lineup for a team that has been a surprise in terms of playoff contention.

6.) Went into 2016 knowing that the offensive hole at 1B really hindered the 2015 Astros...did nothing to address in the offseason and even decided to trade away any everyday infielder in Jed Lowrie (opening a hole at 3B as well in 2016) for a prospect who spent the 1st 50 games this year on suspension for PEDs

7.) Has failed in two straight offseasons to really address the back end of the rotation...Fister last year, then essentially took the same approach with Morton this year. Hopefully Morton doesn't do what Fister did in the last two months of 2016 or else it'll be another really bad looking nail for an MLB exec's career coffin

8.) Has sat on prospects at the deadline the last two seasons when his team really needed to inject some life...yeah, the Gomez trade was terrible and Milwaukee absolutely owned you, but take a damn shot!!! He had no problem dealing off prospects who were thought highly of when he didn't draft them (Jarred Cosart for Marisnick, Mike Foltynewicz for Evan Gattis)

9.) You now have 3 "thumper" AAAA 1st basemen in your system which you made untouchable in trade discussions in previous years which are essentially worthless to you now (Singleton/White/Reed). This is a MAJOR indictment of your system to miss that badly at the same position and actually think you were going to go into a season and have one of those guys be a big RBI guy for a team that was in the playoffs the year before.

There are more examples of both good & bad moves, but acting like the dude has been some flawless genius above reproach is simply not accurate.

irish pete ag06 said:

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bobinator said:

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I just don't get the gnashing of teeth over the front office. I don't think any acquisition would have changed the results much over the last few weeks.

Our offense has been bad in most of our losses, and we were never going to trade for a bat, and our ace pitchers have sucked and they would have started anyway.

Goes back to what I said on the day of the deadline, if Keuchel and McCullers suck, we aren't winning anything no matter what the front office does.

I think some people just want action for the sake of action, and the fact that we've slumped immediately after the deadline is just adding to it.

Still think we're fine as long as everyone is healthy for the postseason. We'll pull out of this and go on a run soon.

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100% this. In economics, it's called "activity bias."

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http://www.eternalspringer.com/#!/2017/08/eternal-springer-august-1-2017.html
Yep

mazag08 said:

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What a bunch of hot air.

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Absolutely. What a great way to sum up the board these days. I'm out.

If some of you other guys come up with any ideas for another place to post where we can get back to actual baseball talk, send me a PM and let me know where to go.

mazag08 said:

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What a bunch of hot air.

The team was healthy and was the best team in baseball.

The team suffered some injury setbacks. One all star isnt back yet, two all star pitchers are currently struggling, and another all star just came back.

If we are playing .500 ball in mid September then Ill be worried.

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Two points:

1.) TL/DR is a better response if you didn't read it, it wasn't hot air.

2.) Take a look at service time lost to the DL for teams in the league, the Dodgers are near the top and the Astros are right around the middle. Now, not all injuries and service time lost is created equal as losing Evan Gattis to a DL stint is nowhere near as impactful as losing George Springer...but they count the same.

They've basically been playing .500 ball over the last two months and you're saying that if that stretch goes from 49% of games played to 58% of games played that THEN you'll get worried? That, to me, is the equivalent of saying "I'll give you to the count of 3" and then doing the "2.....2 and a quarter.....2 and a half.....2 and three quarters!!!!" when the reality is that whoever you're putting the clock on has already made up their mind.

For those who wonder what good it does to get upset about it, it's nothing more than catharsis with professional sports. In my opinion, it's a far more useful expression than those who go scorched earth on college sports boards when recruits' eyes and opponents' GAs are monitoring and looking to create an alternate narrative in living rooms.

For me, it's more than catharsis as I take an active interest in the business of baseball and have had friends/family who have worked in the front office for the Astros under the past few GM regimes. Luhnow has a unique approach to running the franchise, but it seems that he is struggling as an executive to get over the hump.

Go read the blow-by-blow that I saw Jayson Stark post for how the trade deadline played out for 3 teams: Dodgers / Astros / Cubs...it was not a favorable write up for Luhnow as it basically revealed that he fell into a trap with the North Korea of organizations (Baltimore) that Epstein and Zaidi (...probably, as much Friedman) were savvy enough to avoid. Basically, saying that Luhnow's failure to recognize a trend known across the league about dealing with Baltimore helped secure contingency deals for the Dodgers & Cubs. They were able to make contact on Britton and then quickly move when they recognized the Orioles pattern...we're talking within hours; Luhnow was engaged the whole time.

Oh, for those who keep asking what difference one effective trade would've made; have you ever asked yourself what happens if Lidge never gives up that Pujols shot? I mean, the team won the next game and went onto the World Series so there was nothing lost, right?

I do agree that some of these posts are over-the-top negative -- some even silly -- but in fairness when the ballclub has lost 10 of 14 there isn't a whole lot to discuss. Most of what I've seen is baseball discussion, whether you agree with it or not. Some positives:

1. Peacock looked like the professional and steady pitcher that we know he can be.
2. Springer looks like he will round into form soon. It's good to have him back.

I think a lot of it is the level of competition that we are losing to.

CSWendt said:

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I'm not going to read your essay.

Read the post I responded to. He said Lunhow across his tenure. If you look across his tenure then you would see how rare it is to turn the worst team in baseball to a top team.

You can play the "he got lucky game" but I guess so did Theo Epstein when Jake Arrieta turned into an ace. He must just be a lucky GM and not a good one.

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Ok, then just sit on the side, say things that are patently false (like talking about this team being historically good at this point) and be pissy that people have higher expectations than having a really nifty team that has uniforms and everything.

It's also safe to say that you should just assume anyone being critical of the organization and the moves that brought them to the brink here for the 2017 season are hitting the "panic button" and are predicting that they'll go back to last place again soon.

Why make way for nuance when, it's the way of the world these days; for every in-depth political discussion there has to be someone on the outside yelling "...and I wanna see the birth certificate!" or "...impeach the Russian traitor!!!"

BTW - While your response says you didn't read it and that much is clear, kudos for scanning and seeing the singular use of the word 'fortunate' sandwiched around credit for a good move.

Another contributing factor is I think everyone had it in their mind (me included) that we were going to get Dallas and Lance back and then just mash on the league after our patchwork rotation was able to play fairly well and that didn't materialize (yet...?).

Anyway, we'll start winning soon and everything will be awesome. I get all the frustration, but there's nothing we can do about it so we might as well relax and have a few cold beers and make fun of these absolutely awful jerseys we're going to be rocking this weekend.

That 6-9

Think reddick needs to be playing everyday. We need his bat even against left handed pitching

Correct me if I'm wrong (which I might be), but wasn't the recent Tampa Bay series the first time we'd lost more than 2 in a row?

AgFan1999 said:

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Correct me if I'm wrong (which I might be), but wasn't the recent Tampa Bay series the first time we'd lost more than 2 in a row?

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That's incorrect, we were swept earlier in season (Indians at home) and lost 3 in a row first week of the season and again in mid June (Angels/Rangers)

It's August 11th and we've already lost 3 in a row two different times in the month

I'm still annoyed that we have to play two series in Arlington on a friday-saturday-sunday and they only come to Houston in the midweek.

Anyone else's sound not synced to the video for the broadcasts? Not a big deal as you can't even tell during the game, only notice during commercials or the rare times they're showing Julia or the guys in the booth. Just curious as it's my only channel that's been off and I've noticed it the last week or so

Mine seems okay. Sometimes my speakers get a little off and I have to reset them but then it's fine. For baseball it annoys me when there's a delay on the crack of the bat.

Morton looked strong in that frame.

When/from whom will this offense find a spark? so many weak popups and roll overs the past 4 weeks

Gomez is such a cum dumpster

astros4545 said:

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Gomez is such a cum dumpster

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His gay love boy, body odor is just as bad

Really nice AB. Really nice.

Aggie8587 said:

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When/from whom will this offense find a spark? so many weak popups and roll overs the past 4 weeks

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I thought that comeback win against Toronto would do it...but yeah, that didn't happen

Yessssssssssssss

Ick

Good grief Morton. He literally handed you a double play ball

That was not ideal...

The mojo is just so bad right now

4 pitch walk to 8-hole
Weak GB single to 9-hole
Horrendous error on tailor made bunt double play ball

Here we go again