***** Official Houston Astros 2017 Season Thread *****

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The Beef01
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In reply to Mr.Bond • 11:08p, 8/10/17
AG
Mr.Bond said:
Don't worry guys everything is perfectly OK
Yep, I'm not "throw in the towel" guy, but the smug, "that's baseball" crowd acting like this is just a rough patch despite them now being 29-27 over their last 56 and talking down to people like they're crazy for being alarmed b/c of a big lead that they've held for 2 months has worn thin.

It's absolutely ok to call Luhnow's competency to the mat right now...he got to walk around and collect attaboys and genius claims in April/May...only fair to look at his inaction and realize the core of this team aside from Correa/McCullers are Ed Wade guys (Altuve/Springer/Keuchel). I'm not making any grand statements about who Luhnow is or is not, but the last 2 months of baseball (on and off the field) that 3-straight 100+ loss seasons and a lot more patience than almost any GM would be given gets a critical eye.

I'm sure, however, we'll be told not to panic and that it's just drama after being swept by the worst team in the AL where their offense scored as many runs in the 1st inning off your ace as you did in the final 20 innings of the series combined.
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Aggie8587
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In reply to bearkatag15 • 11:09p, 8/10/17
AG
bearkatag15 said:
I feel like this is what this team is going forward... have been very average after the fast start.

Looks exactly like 2015. Except at least Luhnow tried to make some moves at the deadline to energize the guys
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MisterFurious
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In reply to Mr.Bond • 11:09p, 8/10/17
AG
Mr.Bond said:
Ag_07 said:
You need a stuff drink bud.



I'm sorry you think the last few weeks have been acceptable or that you think it's just a phase. I clearly believe this team as is, is exactly what we have seen the last month. A faux contender


Literally, all I've seen him do is call posters whiners, and get upset when it's not "awe shucks...not the boys night tonight."
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Ag_07
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In reply to Mr.Bond • 11:11p, 8/10/17
AG
It ain't pretty and yeah we're reeling I won't argue that, but you guys know how to take melting down to a completely new level.



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cone
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11:13p, 8/10/17
AG
disasterous
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The Beef01
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In reply to Ag_07 • 11:19p, 8/10/17
AG
Ag_07 said:
It ain't pretty and yeah we're reeling I won't argue that, but you guys know how to take melting down to a completely new level.



Dude, the White Sox just increased their win total over their last 30 games by 75% and did something the Astros haven't done since July 5th...won 3-straight. Yeah, but it's the fans who are melting down and not the team.

Takes me back to 2015 when I was "melting down" as the Astros 7-game lead over the Rangers dwindled and every game you'd tell me to relax b/c they're still leading and act as-if there was nothing to be concerned about. 3rd straight August swoon and you still think the problem is with the critics' perception.
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AgDotCom
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11:27p, 8/10/17
I think everything will be ok. The Stros weren't good when they were stacking all those wins, they were great. We need that lineup healthy and for the staff to round back into form after living on the DL.

That said, am I concerned? Hell yes.
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Ag_07
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In reply to AgDotCom • 11:36p, 8/10/17
AG
AgDotCom said:

I think everything will be ok.

That said, am I concerned? Hell yes.

This.

But to see some of you posting stuff like 'This team f@#$ing sucks' and 'No part of this team is even average' and 'This front office can't get it done' is comical.

I get it but c'mon fellas. At this point all I can do I sit back and laugh.

But I'll tell you what...I'll step away for a while and let you guys have at it. Kinda over this place right now anyways.
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Nuke LaLoosh
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In reply to Ag_07 • 11:49p, 8/10/17
AG
Ag_07 said:
AgDotCom said:

I think everything will be ok.

That said, am I concerned? Hell yes.

This.

But to see some of you posting stuff like 'This team f@#$ing sucks' and 'No part of this team is even average' and 'This front office can't get it done' is comical.

I get it but c'mon fellas. At this point all I can do I sit back and laugh.

But I'll tell you what...I'll step away for a while and let you guys have at it. Kinda over this place right now anyways.


To be fair, I think he said, or at least implied, "right now"

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Buck Compton
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In reply to Ag_07 • 11:53p, 8/10/17
AG
Ag_07 said:
AgDotCom said:

I think everything will be ok.

That said, am I concerned? Hell yes.

This.

But to see some of you posting stuff like 'This team f@#$ing sucks' and 'No part of this team is even average' and 'This front office can't get it done' is comical.

I get it but c'mon fellas. At this point all I can do I sit back and laugh.

But I'll tell you what...I'll step away for a while and let you guys have at it. Kinda over this place right now anyways.
Yep. I feel like a few people on this thread derive their sense of value or self from how their sports teams perform. They're taking out years of Aggie frustration on this team. It's funny to me how sports make some people absolutely vile.

It isn't fun right now at all, but I'm accepting these times as the foil to our super highs earlier this year. This is still a good baseball team but between the injuries and the obvious mental weakness, they're clearly in a slump. They need to break out of it if this team has any chance at success in the post season.

That being said, I'm out for a few weeks. This thread ****ing sucks right now with the new additions and performance of the team. It's 20x worse than it ever was in the early part of the decade. Can't remember the last time we had a substantive in-game strategy conversation. I'll be watching the Astros, but not following here for awhile.
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Ags #1
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In reply to Buck Compton • 12:01a, 8/11/17
AG
Well bye
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Frok
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In reply to bearkatag15 • 6:54a, 8/11/17
AG
bearkatag15 said:
I feel like this is what this team is going forward... have been very average after the fast start.



Well, in fairness if you take out the garbage stretch of the past two weeks it's still a decent record.

But my goodness, Hinch needs to get control of his team.
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979ag
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8:03a, 8/11/17
AG
LETS BEAT THEM MF PWUSSIES IN ARLINGTON TONIGHT. WOOOOOOOOO
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Texaggie7nine
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In reply to maca1028 • 8:12a, 8/11/17
Yet still we sit here 13 games ahead in the div and 6 games ahead in the league. None of our stars are injured long term. We have several more dynamic players than last year.

I'd say I would have been happy to hear that we would be in this position this time of year had you told me a year ago.
7nine
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Ags #1
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8:31a, 8/11/17
AG
Please send Davis down. He is so overmatched right now. Or stop starting him at least.
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bobinator
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8:32a, 8/11/17
AG
My thing is, you knew we were going to hit a tough stretch. It always happens. It might as well be in August so that we can ramp back up for the playoffs.

I agree though that I don't get the point of all the negativity and freaking out. It's not like we can change anything. At least when it's A&M sports there's the off chance that someone that matters will see all of the complaints from fans. I still think it's pointless but I get it.

Let's start to pull out of it tonight, maybe play around .500 ball for a couple weeks, and then get hot rolling into the postseason.

But it starts with beating those clowns from Arlington.
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The Milkman
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In reply to Ags #1 • 8:49a, 8/11/17
AG
Ags #1 said:
Please send Davis down. He is so overmatched right now. Or stop starting him at least.
Ah yes... JD Davis. Another prized prospect like AJ Reed or Tyler White that we couldn't possibly let go of to get actual proven talent.
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W
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8:54a, 8/11/17
AG
surely Davis is not going to start in Arlington tonight. He has been simply terrible. A total non-contributor to the offense
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bearkatag15
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In reply to The Milkman • 8:55a, 8/11/17
AG
I think White, Reed and possibly even Davis were part of trade discussions and Luhnow was willing to part with them however other teams didn't want our trash for their gems... Teams wanted Martes, Fisher, Tucker, Whitley, Perez and Alvarez and Luhnow decided all of them were deemed untouchable.
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CSWendt
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In reply to The Milkman • 8:55a, 8/11/17
AG
Stop complaining for the sake of it. JD Davis was never one of those guys we didn't want to trade. The hang ups were with big prospects like Tucker, Fisher, Whitley. If you're going to whine, at least be intelligent about it.
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aggiematt235
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8:55a, 8/11/17
AG
Live look-in at Luhnow holding onto prospects while the MLB team scuttles about:

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W
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8:59a, 8/11/17
AG
Springer has not hit a home run since July 7th
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Gramercy Riffs
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9:16a, 8/11/17
AG
And that's only 14 games for him. He had a 19-game stretch of no homers from April to May (he hit 2 in one game, which were his only two bombs in a 30-game stretch). He goes on hot and cold streaks.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to W • 9:26a, 8/11/17
AG
W said:
Springer has not hit a home run since July 7th


Are you trying to take a shot at Springer by trying to be deceitful? All Star break & stint on the DL mean anything to you?
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MAROON
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9:41a, 8/11/17
AG
can't decide if we are just seeing an accumulation effect of all the injuries this team has been dealing with, or if they have lost their attitude and edge due to the clubhouse lawyers chirping after the trade deadline.

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CFTXAG10
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In reply to MAROON • 9:48a, 8/11/17
AG
MAROON said:
can't decide if we are just seeing an accumulation effect of all the injuries this team has been dealing with, or if they have lost their attitude and edge due to the clubhouse lawyers chirping after the trade deadline.

I was thinking about that this morning. Many are pointing to inactivity at the trade deadline, but the injury factor plays a major role too. Springer, Correa, Keuchel, LMJ, Harris, Reddick, Gattis, etc. have all missed time. It starts to wear on you a bit. Rolling out guys like Davis, White, and Centeno in place of your core group that got you to this division lead takes a toll. Not making excuses, but this team is obviously in a funk from a combination of things. Gotta find a way to get rolling again and snap out of it.
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knoxtom
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In reply to CSWendt • 9:56a, 8/11/17
CSWendt said:
Stop complaining for the sake of it. JD Davis was never one of those guys we didn't want to trade. The hang ups were with big prospects like Tucker, Fisher, Whitley. If you're going to whine, at least be intelligent about it.


Problem is, by the time Tucker and Whitley are really producing (if ever), Correa will be wearing pinstripes and Springer will be in Boston. If you think you have the team to win, you need to win now.

Compare to the Dodgers. They had a better team than the Astros befreo teh deadline and they went even further in, although for some reason, they have this weird ability to trade for help without losing their top three prospects. Weird in that every team in baseball EXCEPT the Astros seems to be able to pull that off.

If you look at Lunhow's record throughout his Astros tenure, he isn't very good. The team is only good because they were so bad for so long. His hit rate is shockingly low, he was just given a lot of chances to hit.





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bearkatag15
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10:00a, 8/11/17
AG
Maybe a glimmer of hope here? Maybe not...

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/247756992/justin-verlander-could-add-opt-out-if-traded/

Quote:
If Verlander is unsure about staying in Houston until his contract expires in 2019, he could insist on adding an opt-out clause to the contract following this season -- or '18 -- as a condition of waiving the no-trade protection.

The CBA's language allows Verlander to do so, according to sources with close knowledge of the document. The MLB Players Association would support such a request, because opt-out clauses are seen as increasing a contract's value -- even though activating an opt-out would involve Verlander forgoing $28 million in guaranteed salary in 2018 and/or '19.

The presence of an opt-out clause could dramatically shift the calculation of fair market value by the Astros and Tigers. The Astros wouldn't want to surrender premium prospects if Verlander intends to depart after the season; similarly, Houston likely would be uneasy with the risk of an injured or ineffective Verlander deciding not to opt-out.

Yet, the CBA offers the Astros and Tigers some flexibility here, too. Detroit can include cash to offset Houston's financial risk in the deal, and that amount can be conditional, pending the exercise of an option, according to one source.

And in this context, MLB officials consider opt-outs to be player options.

For example, the Tigers could include $10 million payments for the 2018 and '19 seasons as part of the deal -- and stipulate that they'd be paid only if Verlander declined his opt-out, should one be created.

So the Astros would have a degree of financial protection from injury or underperformance, the apparently retooling Tigers would guarantee at least some future payroll savings and Verlander could chase an elusive World Series ring with the American League's best team, without immediately committing long-term to a new city.
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CSWendt
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In reply to knoxtom • 10:06a, 8/11/17
AG
knoxtom said:
CSWendt said:
Stop complaining for the sake of it. JD Davis was never one of those guys we didn't want to trade. The hang ups were with big prospects like Tucker, Fisher, Whitley. If you're going to whine, at least be intelligent about it.
If you look at Lunhow's record throughout his Astros tenure, he isn't very good. The team is only good because they were so bad for so long. His hit rate is shockingly low, he was just given a lot of chances to hit.
If it was so easy to turn a bad team into a historically good one, then every GM would be doing it. Instead, you see teams sit in the cellar for decades. Lunhow has done a fantastic job building a winner.
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astros4545
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In reply to knoxtom • 10:10a, 8/11/17
AG
Quote:

If you look at Lunhow's record throughout his Astros tenure, he isn't very good. The team is only good because they were so bad for so long. His hit rate is shockingly low, he was just given a lot of chances to hit.







Holy fooking stupid
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bobinator
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10:29a, 8/11/17
AG
I just don't get the gnashing of teeth over the front office. I don't think any acquisition would have changed the results much over the last few weeks.

Our offense has been bad in most of our losses, and we were never going to trade for a bat, and our ace pitchers have sucked and they would have started anyway.

Goes back to what I said on the day of the deadline, if Keuchel and McCullers suck, we aren't winning anything no matter what the front office does.

I think some people just want action for the sake of action, and the fact that we've slumped immediately after the deadline is just adding to it.

Still think we're fine as long as everyone is healthy for the postseason. We'll pull out of this and go on a run soon.
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maca1028
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In reply to CFTXAG10 • 10:49a, 8/11/17
That's what the level headed side of me is thinking. Until Correa gets back I'd like to see Marisnek and Marwin in the everyday line up with D Fisher jumping in to give the outfielders the occasional day off. Fielding concerns me a little with Marwin but it's better than a recently promoted rookie at SS or 3B. I think either send JD down or leave him on the bench as a late inning sub. I understand centeno playing with Gattis out but as soon as he comes off the DL I'd send Centeno back down, no reason to have 3 catchers. Meanwhile Luhnow makes a deal to get Verlander here, he's pitching really well and could be that added "ace" for next year. I want to see as many of the guys that got us to where we were before the AS break on the field on a daily basis, then when Correa gets back look out!
The other side of me is thinking we are watching a sinking ship and Luhnow isn't going to do anything.
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W
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 10:51a, 8/11/17
AG
no, his power numbers (or lack of) in the second half is another thing that has been missing from the team since the all-star break. Another reason why the team is not playing as well in July/August as they did in May/June.

Springer had 48 x-base hits in 336 AB's in the first half.

in the second half, he has 1 x-base hit in 40 AB's.

the Astros need the 1st half George back starting tonight
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irish pete ag06
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In reply to The Milkman • 11:28a, 8/11/17
AG
The Milkman said:
Ags #1 said:
Please send Davis down. He is so overmatched right now. Or stop starting him at least.
Ah yes... JD Davis. Another prized prospect like AJ Reed or Tyler White that we couldn't possibly let go of to get actual proven talent.


If you think any of those 3 would have better a big fish I'll sell you some ocean front property in Arizona.
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irish pete ag06
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In reply to bobinator • 11:33a, 8/11/17
AG
bobinator said:
I just don't get the gnashing of teeth over the front office. I don't think any acquisition would have changed the results much over the last few weeks.

Our offense has been bad in most of our losses, and we were never going to trade for a bat, and our ace pitchers have sucked and they would have started anyway.

Goes back to what I said on the day of the deadline, if Keuchel and McCullers suck, we aren't winning anything no matter what the front office does.

I think some people just want action for the sake of action, and the fact that we've slumped immediately after the deadline is just adding to it.

Still think we're fine as long as everyone is healthy for the postseason. We'll pull out of this and go on a run soon.


100% this. In economics, it's called "activity bias."
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