3:24pm, 6/19/17: free_mhayden said

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I'd be surprised if there aren't seat licenses for some of the premium seating areas. Customers obviously are going to be against it -- that's like asking them if they'd be in favor of a price increase

But even without them, the point still stands -- it's a helluva lot easier to sell seats for a contender than it is for a rebuild.

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3:31pm, 6/19/17: I replied

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I'll poop slap if there are seat licenses

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Y'all have done more digging for poop today than a proctologist.

Yep, a few pages later someone links this poop slap to Darvish. You don't actually make the bet, someone just misremembers that you did.

And the best part is I got to relive the most painful part of this season all over again.

In all fairness, I did post that I was extremely confident at the time that Darvish would be resigning with the Rangers.

I feel the complete opposite now

Huell Babineaux said:

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Y'all do realize that if I have to poop slap, it will go Texags viral and this website will never be the same for me again

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Hey YOU made the bet. YOU should have realized it.

Personal accountability and all that.

Huell Babineaux said:

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Y'all do realize that if I have to poop slap, it will go Texags viral and this website will never be the same for me again

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Yes, I had thought about that.

So anyways, which hand will be doing the slapping? Will you poop directly into your hand or scoop it out of the bowl. These are logistics you need to start thinking about....

AccidentProne said:

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In all fairness, I did post that I was extremely confident at the time that Darvish would be resigning with the Rangers.

I feel the complete opposite now

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Yikes, I do have injury concerns with Darvish and a long term deal, but would like to have him back. Even if we bring Cashner back, we still need a top of the rotation guy. And Hamels is more of a #2 or 3 guy these days.

Signing Cashner, Arrieta, and Ohtani is not impossible

With $55 million to spend, could this be a possible scenario?

Andrew Cashner - 4 years/$50 million

Jake Arrieta - 4 years/$88 million

Lorenzo Cain - 4 years/$60 million

Ohtani - ?? years/$500k per year for the first 3 years

That is right at $50 million with some extra cash left over. That also answers questions in the starting rotation and outfield.

Chan Ho Park was the last big name free agent starting pitcher to sign with Texas.

Nabbing even one of Arrieta/Darvish/Ohtani is a longshot.

free_mhayden said:

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Chan Ho Park was the last big name free agent starting pitcher to sign with Texas.

Nabbing even one of Arrieta/Darvish/Ohtani is a longshot.

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And no big time coach every leaves one P5 school for another. Yet, we're going to steal Jimbo Fisher at the end of this year. So anything can happen.

free_mhayden said:

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Chan Ho Park was the last big name free agent starting pitcher to sign with Texas.

Nabbing even one of Arrieta/Darvish/Ohtani is a longshot.

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Why do you think this? Especially when the Rangers have long been named one of the favorites in landing Ohtani

If you're including Ohtani in that list how are you not including Darvish as a big free agent signing?

Lucky #007 said:

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If you're including Ohtani in that list how are you not including Darvish as a big free agent signing?

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Because Darvish wasn't a free agent - we won the rights to sign him.

Ohtani will get to choose where he plays.

AccidentProne said:

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free_mhayden said:

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Chan Ho Park was the last big name free agent starting pitcher to sign with Texas.

Nabbing even one of Arrieta/Darvish/Ohtani is a longshot.

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Why do you think this? Especially when the Rangers have long been named one of the favorites in landing Ohtani

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I posted my supporting evidence. In this history of this franchise we have very rarely persuaded high profile free agent starting pitchers to come here -- and when we have we've had to absolutely money-whip them.

That's not to say that it can't happen, but to think we'll manage to do it with two different starters is just wishful thinking IMO.

As for Ohtani - being listed as "one of the favorites" isn't the same as being likely to sign him. It's still somewhat up in the air if he'll play in 2018, but if he does our being the favorites probably still only means we're in the 10-15% range of likelihood of signing him. What we had going for us was Darvish, and if you don't think Darvish will be here then the likelihood of Ohtani being here decreases as well. Even then, no one really knows how significant the "I want to play with Darvish" aspect of things really is.

So until something changes, my assumption is he will sign with a "bright lights" New York or Los Angeles team -- not in Arlington, Texas where one of the best starters the local franchise ever had don the uniform was continually met with a collective "meh" by the media.

The only thing that could possibly save the season is a poop slap. Take one for the team or......wait till next year

free_mhayden said:

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AccidentProne said:

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free_mhayden said:

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Chan Ho Park was the last big name free agent starting pitcher to sign with Texas.

Nabbing even one of Arrieta/Darvish/Ohtani is a longshot.

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Why do you think this? Especially when the Rangers have long been named one of the favorites in landing Ohtani

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I posted my supporting evidence. In this history of this franchise we have very rarely persuaded high profile free agent starting pitchers to come here -- and when we have we've had to absolutely money-whip them.

That's not to say that it can't happen, but to think we'll manage to do it with two different starters is just wishful thinking IMO.

As for Ohtani - being listed as "one of the favorites" isn't the same as being likely to sign him. It's still somewhat up in the air if he'll play in 2018, but if he does our being the favorites probably still only means we're in the 10-15% range of likelihood of signing him. What we had going for us was Darvish, and if you don't think Darvish will be here then the likelihood of Ohtani being here decreases as well. Even then, no one really knows how significant the "I want to play with Darvish" aspect of things really is.

So until something changes, my assumption is he will sign with a "bright lights" New York or Los Angeles team -- not in Arlington, Texas where one of the best starters the local franchise ever had don the uniform was continually met with a collective "meh" by the media.

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You do know that he is for sure playing in the MLB in 2018, right? And I'd like to know where you're getting that 10-15% range, or is that just a guess? And the Dodgers don't have enough $$$ in their international pool to actually compete for Ohtani's services.

AccidentProne said:

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free_mhayden said:

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AccidentProne said:

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free_mhayden said:

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Chan Ho Park was the last big name free agent starting pitcher to sign with Texas.

Nabbing even one of Arrieta/Darvish/Ohtani is a longshot.

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Why do you think this? Especially when the Rangers have long been named one of the favorites in landing Ohtani

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I posted my supporting evidence. In this history of this franchise we have very rarely persuaded high profile free agent starting pitchers to come here -- and when we have we've had to absolutely money-whip them.

That's not to say that it can't happen, but to think we'll manage to do it with two different starters is just wishful thinking IMO.

As for Ohtani - being listed as "one of the favorites" isn't the same as being likely to sign him. It's still somewhat up in the air if he'll play in 2018, but if he does our being the favorites probably still only means we're in the 10-15% range of likelihood of signing him. What we had going for us was Darvish, and if you don't think Darvish will be here then the likelihood of Ohtani being here decreases as well. Even then, no one really knows how significant the "I want to play with Darvish" aspect of things really is.

So until something changes, my assumption is he will sign with a "bright lights" New York or Los Angeles team -- not in Arlington, Texas where one of the best starters the local franchise ever had don the uniform was continually met with a collective "meh" by the media.

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You do know that he is for sure playing in the MLB in 2018, right? And I'd like to know where you're getting that 10-15% range, or is that just a guess? And the Dodgers don't have enough $$$ in their international pool to actually compete for Ohtani's services.

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1) Until Ohtani has been posted then there is no "for sure" he will play in MLB in 2018. Because of the contract regulations, he's leaving a crap-ton of money on the table by coming over next year. He's said that he will, but it's not a slam dunk yet.

2) The 10-15% range is a guess, just like anyone at this point. I've yet to see any reporter make a claim that it's anything near a 50% coin-flip, so simply judging on Texas' history at signing mega free agent pitchers and the desire of international superstars to play in the major markets (and/or the Asian destination of Seattle)... Tanaka and Matsui started with the Yankees. Nomo and Chan Ho with the Dodgers. Dice-K with the Red Sox. Ichiro, Iwakuma and Sasaki with the Mariners. Starting to see a trend in destination?

3) The international pool money of a few million is not going to be the deciding difference in who Ohtani plays for. Either there will be an under-the-table-first-big-contract-agreement, or he'll have an endorsement deal waiting that will more than make up the difference. NY or LA can market him for much higher $$$ than Arlington can.


Ultimately, he'll play where he wants to play. We have a relationship with him and we have the money to negotiate a major contract when that time comes -- so that puts us among the handful of teams vying for his services... but there's not really any other advantage Texas currently has for his services.

We may get him, but it's not likely.

Yeah, I think Ohtani is highly unlikely. The guy seems to be eager to get to the US, and that kind of ambition screams large/flashier market to me. I really don't see it happening. Pick a coast. I think he'll end up at one of them.

Landing a big name true free agent pitcher will be tough. Always has been here. Daniels realized the way to landing the elite pitcher was via the trade, or a bid where the guy is pledged to you (Darvish). Maybe that will change when they get some A/C up in this mofo.

What happened to change the situation with Darvish? I guess Arrieta is a possibility, pretty sure his off-season home is somewhere in the Austin area and he is from the Dallas area, so that may make him more interested. But after a couple of really good years, he seems to have slipped some this season.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Yeah, I think Ohtani is highly unlikely. The guy seems to be eager to get to the US, and that kind of ambition screams large/flashier market to me. I really don't see it happening. Pick a coast. I think he'll end up at one of them.

Landing a big name true free agent pitcher will be tough. Always has been here. Daniels realized the way to landing the elite pitcher was via the trade, or a bid where the guy is pledged to you (Darvish). Maybe that will change when they get some A/C up in this mofo.

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I'm hoping that will be the case. I think that has been part of the problem over the years, pitchers that weren't used to the heat didn't want to pitch half their games in Arlington knowing that it would be hotter than hell during July/Aug/Sept.

New stadium should definitely help with free agent attraction.

Daniels has done well in acquiring pitching for trade, but he's faltered on the other way where you take the player's choice out of where he pitches -- draftee development.

I get that you have to trade young talent to put you over the top when you are on the cusp of the playoffs, but I don't cringe when I see a former Rangers farmhand knocking the cover off the ball for another team, but I do when I see a + arm.

Ohtani is almost certainly going to NYY or BOS. TEX probably a distant 3rd behind those, and I'm not sure they'd be 3rd. Both those clubs have lots of international money to spend, same as Texas.

I'm sure the Rangers will push hard for Cashner, though I don't think 50m/4yrs gets it done. Probably more like 48m/3yrs. If I think he can pitch like he did this year, I'm probably okay with that.

I'm sure we'll see if Cain has interest, but he's gonna get paid, is kinda old for a speed guy, and the Rangers will almost certainly decide to roll with Deshields on the cheap for CF.

Arrieta/Darvish/Other FA pitchers - we'll see. I assume nearly all Rangers FA money will be spent on the rotation and bullpen, so there is some cash to be spent.

I think the Rangers best chance to a relevant SP in the offseason will be in the trade market. The Rangers simply have too many young LH bats and can use those assets to add pitching. I'll go so far as to say that I don't think both Mazara and Ronald Guzman will be in the system on opening day next year - one gets traded. Even though he's new, I think Calhoun could be shopped, and of course Profar is gone.

free_mhayden said:

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Chan Ho Park was the last big name free agent starting pitcher to sign with Texas.

Nabbing even one of Arrieta/Darvish/Ohtani is a longshot.

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You forget about Kevin Millwood

AggieDPT said:

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free_mhayden said:

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Chan Ho Park was the last big name free agent starting pitcher to sign with Texas.

Nabbing even one of Arrieta/Darvish/Ohtani is a longshot.

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You forget about Kevin Millwood

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The good ole days of "Well, Millwood says he's in the best shape of his life coming into this season - so maybe we'll be OK".... "Well, Millwood took up kickboxing this off-season to help with this mechanics - so maybe we'll be OK"...

AggieDPT said:

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free_mhayden said:

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Chan Ho Park was the last big name free agent starting pitcher to sign with Texas.

Nabbing even one of Arrieta/Darvish/Ohtani is a longshot.

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You forget about Kevin Millwood

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Last I checked, Sea, NYY & Tex were the only ones with significant Int'l money who don't have a $300K cap.

Boston signed
Daniel Flores (Vz): $3.1M <- No 2 Prospect
Diaz (Vz): $1.6M <- No. 13 Prospect
Antoni Flores (Vz): $1.4M <- No. 20 Prospect

They started with $4.75M and added $3.25M. for $8M.


Here is their list of major signings:

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Daniel Flores, C, Venezuela, $3,100,000 - No. 2 on MLB Pipeline Top 30 list
Danny Diaz, SS, Venezuela, $1,600,000 - No. 14 on MLB Pipeline Top 30 list
Antoni Flores, SS, Venezuela, $1,400,000 - No. 20 on MLB Pipeline Top 30 list
Nelfy Abreu, SS, Dominican Republic, $450,000
Denny Daza, SS, Venezuela, $250,000
Wilker Vargas, SS, Venezuela, $175,000
Brayan Aquino, RHP, Dominican Republic, $100,000
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Luis Mota, SS, Venezuela, $50,000
Brayan Bello, RHP, Dominican Republic, $28,000
Johan Martinez, RHP, Dominican Republic, $10,000
Alexander Montero, RHP, Dominican Republic, $10,000
Yasel Santana, RHP, Dominican Republic, $10,000
Carlos Martinez, OF, Dominican Republic, $10,000
Leonel Jimenez, IF, Panama, $10,000
Robinson Montero, RHP, Venezuela, $10,000
Ruben Hernandez, OF, Venezuela, $10,000
Gabriel Quintero, OF, Venezuela, $10,000
Gregori Segovia, RHP, Venezuela, $10,000
Jesus Rosillo, RHP, Venezuela, $10,000

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That is $7.075 M for the players above the line. There is $178K below the line.

So, they have spent $7.253M of their $8M.

Last I checked, I think the Rangers have close to $4.5M and the Yanks had like $3.8M. I don't recall Seattle, but you could probably search this thread.

I'm assuming the Pool money goes July 2017 to June 2018.

AP, talked to a high operative last night. She said that ohtani is an absolute must have and we won't be outbid. You feeling the same way?

Oh, and I had no idea Kenny Rogers threw to pudge to officially break ground on the new stadium until she told me. Pretty cool

I also told her I was disappointed that the Rangers had on 15, 000 thousand bobble heads for pudge night. She agreed.

Street_Cred_Norm said:

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AP, talked to a high operative last night. She said that ohtani is an absolute must have and we won't be outbid. You feeling the same way?

Oh, and I had no idea Kenny Rogers threw to pudge to officially break ground on the new stadium until she told me. Pretty cool

I also told her I was disappointed that the Rangers had on 15, 000 thousand bobble heads for pudge night. She agreed.

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I believe it is Ohtani or bust. We can not afford to miss a high profile SP this offseason. If we do miss, we are probably looking at another season ending with no postseason

This is what we're going into the offseason with:

Hamels: 23 GS, 4.10 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 6.21 K/9 <- would have been 14th if Qualified (17 more IP)
Perez: 31 GS, 4.83 ERA, 1.44 WHIP, 5.68 K/9 <- 19th in AL ERA
Martinez: 18 GS, 5.66 ERA, 1.37 WHIP, 5.42 K/9
AJG: 15 GS, 5.94 ERA, 1.34 WHIP


For all the complaining about Martin, he didn't finish the season that bad.

Here is the deal with Ohtani... he isn't going to save us in 2018. He didn't pitch this season. Based on my experience, we are lucky if we get 150 IP out of him in 2018.

We have got to be close to cutting Martinez loose. In August\September he has had 7GS/9G for 40.1 IP and 34 ER. That's a 7.59 ERA. He is 27.

AJG has been in the majors since 2012. He pitched 200 IP in 2013, but beyond that he has never gone beyond 119.0 IP. He'll be 30 in January.


We have 2 SPs going into 2018. One who is aging and his numbers heading in the wrong direction and one that can't seem to overcome a bad inning.

I'm not convinced at this point that YoMen or any of our other prospects are close enough to pencil in as a 5th SP to start the season.

I think they'll try to resign Cashner, try to sign a big name guy, and then fill whatever's left with risks from the scrap heap - guys like Ross and Cashner. Daniels likes to go dig in the Goodwill pile. The concern is that if those first two don't pan out (and I think it's likely at least one doesn't), then that is even more need from the scrap heap.

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For all the complaining about Martin, he didn't finish the season that bad.

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Let's be clear: there are only 25 guys "qualified" as of today.

If you bring in guys who will finish with 20 starts, his ERA drops all of a sudden to 44th and his WHIP to 61st.

Yeah, that seems to be the most likely strategy. Do that, then see what you have come July and if it's worth swinging a trade deadline deal.

Hamels is basically a #3 and Perez a #4/#5... So while Texas has the money to go out and get a couple of TORPs, there's just not a lot out there to be acquired.

Will be an interesting offseason... Feels very similar to the post-2013 off-season where it looked like there was really no choice but to rebuild and Texas went out and got Choo and Fielder and won the division 2 out of the next 3 years.