It is high time to restock the system with good young players. I love what the White Sox have been doing this season. They have recognized they're out of it, and their farm system is now absolutely LOADED with players. there is no reason why we can't get good return for some of our guys. I would be okay with shopping everyone but Elvis and Mazara at this point.

jtstanley4621 said:

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It is high time to restock the system with good young players. I love what the White Sox have been doing this season. They have recognized they're out of it, and their farm system is now absolutely LOADED with players. there is no reason why we can't get good return for some of our guys. I would be okay with shopping everyone but Elvis and Mazara at this point.

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You know... I think the CWS are trying, but for several years, they have traded away a ton of MLB talent, and IMO, have little to show for it, so far.

I think it appears to be loaded, but let's revisit in 3-4 years. We had Harrison, Hunter, Holland, Nick Martinez, Chi Chi et al, that just seemed to flounder at the almost MLB level. Will any of these players replace Quintana or Sale?!

CWS Top 10 players (including recent players)
Yoan Moncada (2B-22): #1 Overall. Just called up.
Eloy Jimenez (OF-20-A+): #8 Overall.
Michael Kopech (RHP-21-AA): #11 Overall. 18GS, 3.51 ERA
Luis Robert (OF-19-Rk): #23 Overall. .250, 1 HR, 8 SB
Lucas Giolito (RHP-23-AAA): #28 Overall. 18GS, 5.00 ERA
Blake Rutherford (OF-20-A): #30 Overall .281, 2 HR, 9 SB
Reynaldo Lopez (RHP-23-AAA): #36 Overall. 18GS, 3.78 ERA
Carson Fulmer (RHP-23-AAA): #59 Overall19GS, 5.42 ERA
Dylan Cease (RHP-21-A): #63 Overall. 13GS, 2.79
Zack Collins (C-22-A+): #68 Overall. .217, 13 HR, 0 SB

Players under 25 on their roster:
Rodon (SP-24)
Hanson (2B-24)
Anderson (SS-24)
Moncada (2B-22)

Before Moncada's call-up this week, they had 3 young players, and 2 of their Top 10 players are 23 @ AAA and have over a 5.00 ERA. Granted most of the Rangers' AAA SP are over 6.00 ERA, but IMO, none of them are prospects.

CWS Avg Age: 27.1
Tex Avg Age: 28.2

Players under 25 on our roster:
Kela (24)
DeShields (24)
Leclerc (23)
Gallo (23)
Odor (23)
Mazara (22)

Top 10:
Leody Taveras (OF-18-A): .251, 6 HR, 14 SB
YoMen (LHP-22-AA): 3.78 ERA
Ariel Jurado (RHP-21-AA): 4.82 ERA
Ron Guzman (1B-22-AAA): .315, 11 hR, 3 SB
Brett Martin (LHP-22-A+): 5.40 ERA
Jose Trevino (C-24-AA)
Anderson Tejeda (MIF-19-A)
Cole Ragans (LHP-19-AShort)
Alex Speas (RHP-19-AShort)
Connor Sadzeck (RHP-25-AA): 6.12 ERA

I know you can't necessarily compare minor league teams... I've followed Sadzeck and he has become a RP, and has fallen, IMO, as a prospect.

If the Rangers were to trade Darvish, Hamels, Cashner, Profar, Gallo, Lucroy and Gomez... I would hope that would be one hell of a minor league infusion.

Gallo isn't getting traded, I could see anyone else on that list being shopped

Huell Babineaux said:

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Gallo isn't getting traded, I could see anyone else on that list being shopped

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We have squirrel down with a commitment that Hamels won't be traded. I'll put you in the camp that commits Gallo won't be traded.

I'm in the definitive that Beltre will not be traded.

Many in the "Andrus' contract will prevent him from being traded."

We have 10 days for this circus to escalate. We are 4.5 GB for the WC and just got back Kela, about to get Diekman and AJG back.

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We have 10 days for this circus to escalate. We are 4.5 GB for the WC and just got back Kela, about to get Diekman and AJG back.

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There's the optimism!!

The farm isn't TOTALLY shot. I do think we have some young players with good potential. Guzman could be a pretty good 1B, and I like Mendez as well. I think Taveras is going to end up being very good.

Mix that in with the young players we have in the MLB right now, and I think we could have a very solid core. It's just at this point a farm system that is missing a few pieces that I think we could pick up if we sold, which the team is forcing JD closer and closer to with each passing game.

Somebody said the team looks lost. Could it be that they've just given up at this point?

Don't think they have given up....just bummed that the season went down the ****ter this week

Cubs are showing interest in Darvish.

bigcat22 said:

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Cubs are showing interest in Darvish.

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So, I think it will be interesting to see how this whole thing goes.

Cubs, Dodgers, Yankees, Astros, Twins, Mariners?

Who else do we start scouting?!

jtstanley4621 said:

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The farm isn't TOTALLY shot. I do think we have some young players with good potential. Guzman could be a pretty good 1B, and I like Mendez as well. I think Taveras is going to end up being very good.

Mix that in with the young players we have in the MLB right now, and I think we could have a very solid core. It's just at this point a farm system that is missing a few pieces that I think we could pick up if we sold, which the team is forcing JD closer and closer to with each passing game.

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We have some really good pieces. We just don't have quantity.

Ok... I'm bored on Conf Calls.

If we sell, what positions do we look for? Where are our needs\wants? Let's start with Offense\Defense (anything but Pitching):
1B: Napoli ('17), Ronald Guzman (22, 2018-> serf)
2B: Odor (23, through '23)
SS: Andrus (28, through '23)
3B: Beltre ('18), then Gallo (2018-> serf)
LF: Mazara (22, Arb3 in '21)
RF: Choo ('20)
CF: DeShields (24, Arb3 in '20) - .277, 2 HR, 19 SB
C: Chirinos ('19), Nicholas (Serf)

Profar (24): Arb3 in 2020 - .172, 0 HR, 1 SB
Ryan Rua (27): Arb3 in 2020 - .202, 3HR, 2SB
Drew Robinson (25): Serf - .238, 3 HR
Jared Hoying (28): Serf
Hanser Alberto (24): Arb3 in 2021

Presumably, we have solid entrenched MLB players at 2B, SS, LF and RF.
We have a highly regarded prospect to take over 1B and 3B.
We need C and CF.

CF is a hole. DeShields is a throwing liability, with limited Offense, but lots of SBs and great coverage in OF. We could easily resign Carlos Gomez. We could convert Profar, if he is willing.
C has been a hole since Pudge. We have some minor league guys, but nothing sure-thing. Chirinos is a backup guy. We could have had Lucroy... not sure there is any mutual interest. Throwing his name out as a trade piece was either a negotiating tactic to extend him now... or it was a signal there is no future interest. Based on what we've heard about the Pitching... they are not interested in keeping him.

Outside of adding a CF, I don't think we have any foreseeable holes, until 202X).

Pieces are pieces, but based on the above... we either go for an OF or C... or it is pure pitching?!

Thoughts?

Are we considering Odor entrenched because we just overpaid on this last contract in the offseason?

PatAg said:

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Are we considering Odor entrenched because we just overpaid on this last contract in the offseason?

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It would seem so; same reason Choo seems to be an referenced as entrenched.

And right field is a "hole" if Choo is your right fielder. Guy is really only useful as a platoon DH against right handed pitching at this point in his career.

Cubs don't have that many top prospects left, correct? Wouldn't want to do that trade. We need an immediate injection of additional youth talent.

And I know this is an unpopular opinion, but Nomar Mazara has not proved he deserves the left field spot long term.

He's a mediocre defender and his age notwithstanding, he's a mediocre bat.

I am not saying he can't improve, given he is young, but he's not yet done anything to make him or that position untouchable.

bigcat22 said:

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Cubs are showing interest in Darvish.

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What sucks about Darvish, Rangers are not going to get as much because of possible rental. But if they aren't going to resign, they have to get what they can.

And we will probably piss and moan about the return...

TXAggie2011 said:

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And I know this is an unpopular opinion, but Nomar Mazara has not proved he deserves the left field spot long term.

He's a mediocre defender and his age notwithstanding, he's a mediocre bat.

I am not saying he can't improve, given he is young, but he's not yet done anything to make him or that position untouchable.

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I'm just not sure what we could get for him in terms of saying "yes, these prospects are an upgrade." Mazara is still growing into the player he can be. I'm fine on waiting on that.

jtstanley4621 said:

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TXAggie2011 said:

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And I know this is an unpopular opinion, but Nomar Mazara has not proved he deserves the left field spot long term.

He's a mediocre defender and his age notwithstanding, he's a mediocre bat.

I am not saying he can't improve, given he is young, but he's not yet done anything to make him or that position untouchable.

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I'm just not sure what we could get for him in terms of saying "yes, these prospects are an upgrade." Mazara is still growing into the player he can be. I'm fine on waiting on that.

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There's nothing you can really do about it now, but I'm just saying I see left field/Nomar Mazara as a wait and see position/player. Not one where we have a solid, entrenched player.

Again, I do agree there's not much you can do about it right now.

PatAg said:

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Are we considering Odor entrenched because we just overpaid on this last contract in the offseason?

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I figured Rougie would be questioned.

I think because of his age: 23.168d and the fact he is team controlled... and has proven himself.

Who would you suggest could replace him... keeping in mind he is 23.

Very few 2B can compare to Odor, because they didn't make a full season in MLB before Odor's current age.

As terrible as he is this season (95G) with his .215, 17 HR, 9 SB... last year (150G) he was .271, 33 HR, 14 SB. He has 479 G.

I'd be interested in some Top alternatives.

Daniel Murphy was 24 before his 1st full season. He was 27 his 2nd full season.
Pedroia was 23 before his 1st full season.
Yoan Moncada is 22 and just called up. Total of 8 Career games.
Kinsler was 24 before making an appearance.
Altuve was 22 when called up.

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and has proven himself.

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That's debatable, and the source of the disagreement.

We all know his age, we know he's young, he could get better...but you're not "entrenched" or "solid" because you could, maybe, might get better.

TXAggie2011 said:

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PatAg said:

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Are we considering Odor entrenched because we just overpaid on this last contract in the offseason?

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It would seem so; same reason Choo seems to be an referenced as entrenched.

And right field is a "hole" if Choo is your right fielder. Guy is really only useful as a platoon DH against right handed pitching at this point in his career.

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I'm no fan of Choo. Move him to DH, trade him... fine.

The reason I consider Choo entrenched is because he is on the team and he has a career .380 OBP and is .365 this season. If you think that is a pressing need. Let's add it.

I think he is a neutral player.

If both Choo and Mazara are here long-term, then Choo is the DH and Mazara is the RF.

Mazara is a mess in left... He's shown to be more than adequate right.

TXAggie2011 said:

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And I know this is an unpopular opinion, but Nomar Mazara has not proved he deserves the left field spot long term.

He's a mediocre defender and his age notwithstanding, he's a mediocre bat.

I am not saying he can't improve, given he is young, but he's not yet done anything to make him or that position untouchable.

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Help me with a couple 22 year olds that you think have had a better career so far, than Mazara.

Derek Jeter @22 had his 1st full season (157G) and went .310, 10 HR, 14 SB & 7 CS
Mazara @ 22 is in his 2nd full season (86G) and is .248, 12 HR, 2SB & 1 CS.

Mazara is certainly no Derek Jeter, and my not have anything close to the career Jeter had, but I'm not sure you are going to find any 22 year olds that you go, "Yeah, let's bump Mazara to the bench so we can put this guy in."

Mazara will make just over $500K this year. Maybe you go Stanton or McCutch... maybe you spend $20M for comparable results the next 4 years.

TXAggie2011 said:

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Quote:

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and has proven himself.

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That's debatable, and the source of the disagreement.

We all know his age, we know he's young, he could get better...but you're not "entrenched" or "solid" because you could, maybe, might get better.

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Then you can't be entrenched just because you "were." I think what you are looking for is the word... "Projected." It is baseball. Like the weather... your mileage may vary and previous performances are no indication of future results.

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Help me with a couple 22 year olds that you think have had a better career so far, than Mazara.

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Like most of that, this is irrelevant to my point about Mazara (or Odor). The question is "what 22 year olds do you believe are entrenched at their position'" and I'll respond with "very few."

Obviously, barring injury, they're surely going to start 145 games a year for the Rangers the next few years so this is a rather academic discussion, I know. Its practical insofar as I'm probably more willing than yourself to accept prospects at their positions in trades that may happen in the next week or off-season in prep that in couple years I might want someone else at that position if these guys don't "entrench" themselves.

Profar is slow as molassas, no way he could play CF

We're in major need of some good young prospects. This is the year to do it. Sell everyone and restock the farm. We have enough young pieces already on the team to prevent a full rebuild.

Sell Darvish, Gomez, Napoli, Profar, Lucroy.

Keep Mazara, Gallo, Choo, Elvis, Beltre, Odor, Cashner, Hamels. Bring up Guzman and let him go.

I'd even be down to sell Darvish, Hamels, AND Cashner. Could get a crazy return for those 3 right now. Complete rotation rebuild would be rough for while, though.

At this point I also think that if you're approaching deals on selling you approach Beltre and ask him if he would like to go elsewhere to compete for another WS title. If he does, you absolutely ship him.

The haul could be decent, despite Beltre's age. I would hate to see him go, and hate to think that way, but the Rangers owe him that courtesy for sure.

jtstanley4621 said:

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At this point I also think that if you're approaching deals on selling you approach Beltre and ask him if he would like to go elsewhere to compete for another WS title. If he does, you absolutely ship him.

The haul could be decent, despite Beltre's age. I would hate to see him go, and hate to think that way, but the Rangers owe him that courtesy for sure.

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It hurts to say as he is my all time favorite Ranger, but I totally agree. And with Boston's third base situation, I'm sure they would be very interested. Belts deserves a WS ring, shame it wasn't in 2011...

No chance they deal Beltre prior to 3000...but after (if there's any time left before the deadline)? I agree.

whats going on?

Darvish bringing some serious heat tonight