HOU@TEX Trash Talking Thread

433,781 Views | 3968 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by Charlie Conway
mhayden
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quote:
quote:
I wasn't so much disagreeing with you, just pointing out that getting to the position that Houston is in (where they could be about to have a string of great years) really isn't that difficult for a franchise to get to so the front office certainly shouldn't be lauded for it and the fanbase shouldn't be puffing their chests about it.

I'm sure there are teams that could screw it up, but most any franchise in baseball could keep the powder dry for 4 years, average 100+ losses, and come out on the other side with the potential to make a run of good years.

Most franchises choose not to do that because A) it's basically a slap in the face to the fanbase to not field a decent product for 4 years and B) there's no guarantee of success on the other end of things. Washington didn't use the same tanking method as Houston but it worked the same -- a string of really bad seasons landed them Stephen Strasburg, Bryce Harper and Anthony Rendon (and to a lesser extent Denard Span via trade).

And they've certainly looked good coming out of that, but it hasn't amounted to even getting out of the divisional series.


It was a breath of fresh air for a front office to have a plan and execute it, even if it meant doing something unpopular. Drayton's turd polishing routine was much worse than what this front office did.

To be honest, I read what I wrote and I think back to the years when Texas was inking Sammy Sosa and Andres Gallaraga to deals just so maybe a 72 win team could be a 74 win team and how maddening that was and how many of us preferred to just tank and rebuild... So I retract that no team *should* do what Houston did, but I just don't know that as a fanbase I'd come out of the other side puffing my chest about the prospects received -- you paid very dearly for them.
3B Paul 97
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You go through something like that and you would be excited about the positives too.
TXAggie2011
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That the Astros did this by simply tanking to historical levels is as disingenuous as Rangers fans claim the run differential crap is...

At some points, people have to come to grips with the following, or I'll just keep repeating it until they at least stop recycling the same misguided talking point.

Jose Altuve was an international free agent signing, signed for all of a $15,000 signing bonus.
George Springer was the 11th pick, not even top 10.

(#1 prospect Alex Bregman was selected with the 2nd pick.)
#2 prospect Francis Martes was an international Dominican teenager.
(#3 prospect Kyle Tucker was the 5th pick.)
#4 prospect Forrest Whitely was the 17th pick.
#5 prospect David Paulino was acquired in a trade.
#6 prospect Joe Musgrove was acquired in a trade.
#7 prospect Derek Fisher was the 37th pick.
#8 prospect Daz Cameron was also the 37th pick.
#9 prospect Albert Abreu was an international Dominican teenager.
#10 prospect Colin Moran was acquired in a trade.


Carlos Correa? Fine. But you think just about any other one of their top players and top prospects could be a serious MLB contributor? You should have acquired them. Most of, if not the entire league could have acquired any one of those guys. But they didn't. The Astros did.
TXAggie2011
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And FWIW, you can certainly screw up the #1 pick. Carlos Correa has already had as successful a career as about 5 of the previous 10 #1 picks...

Tim Beckham, Luke Hochevar, Matt Bush, Delmon Young, and Bryan Burlington all with a WAR of 3.0 of lower. Burlington's is negative!


It looks like Mark Appel, who the Astros traded for all of a reliever in Ken Giles, may not exactly be headed to greatness.
GrapevineAg
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Take it to another thread, TPHA fans.
DannyDuberstein
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quote:
Take it to another thread, TPHA fans.


No ***** Txaggie11 is probably a hit at parties. Brings his own kneepads
TXAggie2011
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And while I'm not an Astros fan, I am a Nationals fans and I can tell you we don't really care nor think about how many losses the team took on.

Its not fun to lose 100 games, I know this first hand. But ultimately, there is winning, there is the playoffs, and there is everything else.

I don't know, Phillies fans can keep yapping about how even through the rebuilding they only lose so many games a year. Who cares? I'm happy for them to only lose their regular 89 games a year. Who cares. Whatever. They can keep watching us in the playoffs from their couch.
hawk1689
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quote:


#1 prospect Alex Bregman was selected in the 2nd round.


Failure right out of the gate.
TXAggie2011
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quote:
quote:
Take it to another thread, TPHA fans.


No ***** Txaggie11 is probably a hit at parties. Brings his own kneepads
Do you always run around a party going "no, no, no this isn't how it was supposed to go!"

I must have left my kneepads at home. Can you bring some over from the toddler table?


Poor Debbie feels left out.
TXAggie2011
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quote:
quote:


#1 prospect Alex Bregman was selected in the 2nd round.


Failure right out of the gate.
Yes. All the rest is correct, though. I double checked.

A better underlying point can be made with Bregman, however, now that you've brought up him specifically.

He was drafted with a compensatory pick because the Astros didn't sign #1 pick Brady Aiken.

Only 1 of the 3 guys drafted 1st after the 100+ loss seasons is still an Astro.

Thanks for that, hawk.

Cynical_Texan
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quote:
I can tell you we don't really care nor think about how many losses the team took on.

Its not fun to lose 100 games, I know this first hand.

Which is it...
TXAggie2011
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AG

quote:
But ultimately, there is winning, there is the playoffs, and there is everything else.
This one.
mhayden
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1st round (regular and supplemental) picks that are everyday players for Houston:

Jason Castro
Carlos Correa
George Springer
Lance McCullers
Alex Bregman


Talent acquired directly or indirectly by trading 1st round picks:

Luis Valbuena



So lets see... Your catcher, shortstop, right-fielder, third-baseman, hot prospect call-up and 2015 playoff starter all drafted in the first round (or acquired by trading your first round pick) after a losing season.

No doubt drafting well is not a slam-dunk process, but lets not pretend a good chunk of this Astros team isn't made up of guys they snagged early because they had a ****ty season.
TXAggie2011
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You're losing the plot going after someone like Lance McCullers who was drafted 41st...

If it wasn't already lost going after guys like Castro and Springer who were 10th and 11th picks.
TXAggie2011
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Basically you're saying the Astros drafted well?

I'm sure they won't cry over that revelation.
TXAggie2011
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Just sad that Justin Smoak didn't work for the Rangers, eh?
DannyDuberstein
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Justin Smoak brought us Cliff Lee. Without him, the team doesn't get out of the division series vs Tampa, doesn't win its first pennant and doesn't get to its first World Series.
TXAggie2011
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quote:
Justin Smoak brought us Cliff Lee. Without him, the team doesn't get out of the division series vs Tampa vs winning the pennant and getting to its first World Series.


It was a joke. Mhayden didn't want to trade Smoak back in the day. Thought he was going to be a star.

The point is he was the same pick that George Springer was.
DannyDuberstein
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I must have misplaced my 6 year old pissing match decoder map.
TXAggie2011
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You seem to have solid pissing match skills. You're like the angry chihuahua down the street that wants attention and then losses himself with excitement when given it. Again, you're very good at pissing.

Again, don't worry about it, the point he was an #11 pick. Are you saying the Rangers World Series was made on the back of tanking and having a "****ty season"?
irish pete ag06
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You're losing the plot going after someone like Lance McCullers who was drafted 41st...

If it wasn't already lost going after guys like Castro and Springer who were 10th and 11th picks.


Exactly. If we had tanked harder the year before Castro, we would have had Posey.

You do realize all teams have a 1st round pick right? Those aren't all first overall?
DannyDuberstein
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I could probably improve my pissing match skills if I follow your lead of keeping a book on posters out here.

And I'd say the Rangers have done a great job of leveraging assets and balancing their approach to build a pretty consistent winner.
mhayden
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I think my favorite thing TxAggie2001 does is makes a post, then runs back and makes another post, then runs back and makes another post. I picture him starting to walk away from the computer then dashing back. Usually they are edits, but I think the multiple posts are funnier.
mhayden
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quote:
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You're losing the plot going after someone like Lance McCullers who was drafted 41st...

If it wasn't already lost going after guys like Castro and Springer who were 10th and 11th picks.


Exactly. If we had tanked harder the year before Castro, we would have had Posey.

You do realize all teams have a 1st round pick right? Those aren't all first overall?

Most of the players I referenced were mid to high first-round picks. Houston got picked that high because they had a poor season. Which is the point I'm making -- you put up enough poor seasons and assuming you don't draft poorly, you're going to end up having a team with young talent.

*That is the exact reason the draft is designed like it is -- try to get the ****ty teams the better talent so they aren't ****ty.*

Congrats Houston -- you were ****ty enough times that you've stockpiled young talent.
irish pete ag06
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quote:
quote:
quote:
You're losing the plot going after someone like Lance McCullers who was drafted 41st...

If it wasn't already lost going after guys like Castro and Springer who were 10th and 11th picks.


Exactly. If we had tanked harder the year before Castro, we would have had Posey.

You do realize all teams have a 1st round pick right? Those aren't all first overall?

Most of the players I referenced were mid to high first-round picks. Houston got picked that high because they had a poor season. Which is the point I'm making -- you put up enough poor seasons and assuming you don't draft poorly, you're going to end up having a team with young talent.

*That is the exact reason the draft is designed like it is -- try to get the ****ty teams the better talent so they aren't ****ty.*

Congrats Houston -- you were ****ty enough times that you've stockpiled young talent.


So we should feel inferior because we didn't draft poorly?

TXAggie2011
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quote:
I could probably improve my pissing match skills if I follow your lead of keeping a book on posters out here.
Seems we could all learn some book keeping skills on posters from mhayden.

(Edited, for the book.)



TXAggie2011
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quote:
Most of the players I referenced were mid to high first-round picks. Houston got picked that high because they had a poor season. Which is the point I'm making -- you put up enough poor seasons and assuming you don't draft poorly, you're going to end up having a team with young talent.

*That is the exact reason the draft is designed like it is -- try to get the ****ty teams the better talent so they aren't ****ty.*

Congrats Houston -- you were ****ty enough times that you've stockpiled young talent.
They were 1, 2, 10, 11, and 41.

There isn't a GM out there that hasn't drafted 10, 11, and 41 or thereabouts sometime preceding a period of success.Certainly not Jon Daniels.

That Justin Smoak and Kasey ****r and, well, every single guy Jon Daniels has drafted 11, 12th, or in the compensatory round has been a huge flop doesn't make Jon Daniels a good GM.

No doubt that Jon Daniels has made good signings and good trades, including benefiting greatly from trading a #5 overall pick in Teixiera...but going after the Astros for drafting #11 or #41, it just serves to highlight how few of Jon Daniels' draft picks have gone on to do anything at the MLB level.

Stick to the original argument; they absolutely tanked and drafted a bunch of lottery level picks. That is how they got Correa and Bregman, it absolutely is.
TXAggie2011
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Really, guys drafted anywhere by Jon Daniels are pretty much guaranteed to be a flop.

The most successful draft choice, going by WAR, by far, of Daniels' has been Chris Davis.

Who the Rangers have had to trade, along with one Jon Daniels' top 5 or 6 most successful players, Tommy Hunter, for a rental relief pitcher, because they couldn't get Davis to stop posting negative WARs.

Actually have to give Daniels kudos for continuing to find such a market for his draft choices given how bad his draft choices have produced.
mhayden
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Not at all. I wish Texas drafted as well as Houston.
Player To Be Named Later
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Thank you for saving him from going 4 posts in a row without anyone answering him
mhayden
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quote:
quote:
Most of the players I referenced were mid to high first-round picks. Houston got picked that high because they had a poor season. Which is the point I'm making -- you put up enough poor seasons and assuming you don't draft poorly, you're going to end up having a team with young talent.

*That is the exact reason the draft is designed like it is -- try to get the ****ty teams the better talent so they aren't ****ty.*

Congrats Houston -- you were ****ty enough times that you've stockpiled young talent.
They were 1, 2, 10, 11, and 41.

There isn't a GM out there that hasn't drafted 10, 11, and 41 or thereabouts sometime preceding a period of success.Certainly not Jon Daniels.

That Justin Smoak and Kasey ****r and, well, every single guy Jon Daniels has drafted 11, 12th, or in the compensatory round has been a huge flop doesn't make Jon Daniels a good GM.

No doubt that Jon Daniels has made good signings and good trades, including benefiting greatly from trading a #5 overall pick in Teixiera...but going after the Astros for drafting #11 or #41, it just serves to highlight how few of Jon Daniels' draft picks have gone on to do anything at the MLB level.

Stick to the original argument; they absolutely tanked and drafted a bunch of lottery level picks. That is how they got Correa and Bregman, it absolutely is.

Says the guy who had to edit his post that thought Bregman wasn't a first round pick.

Bregman was a Top 5 pick on everyone's board -- even poorly-drafting Texas.

TXAggie2011
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quote:
Thank you for saving him from going 4 posts in a row without anyone answering him
When all people have in response to my posts is to count posts and edits, I'm a happy camper.

Silence, too, speaks volumes.

Its when I know I was right.


(Or to go back to one error I long ago acknowledged and have nothing else to say. That's always fulfilling, too.)


TXAggie2011
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Bregman was a Top 5 pick on everyone's board -- even poorly-drafting Texas.
And? I just said they acquired him by tanking.
irish pete ag06
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To add to the Bregman talk... Remember, this front office had to make the extremely unpopular decision to basically runoff Brady Aiken from the signing table due to his paper mache UCL. THAT's the only reason they have Bregman. They were absolutely eviscerated and raked through the coals in the media and many of their own ignorant fans were "alienated" by that also when it was absolutely the right decision.
Player To Be Named Later
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quote:
quote:
Thank you for saving him from going 4 posts in a row without anyone answering him
When all people have in response to my posts is to count posts and edits, I'm a happy camper.

Silence, too, speaks volumes.

Its when I know I was right.


(Or to go back to one error I long ago acknowledged and have nothing else to say. That's always fulfilling, too.)





Worried about being "right" on an internet trash talk thread.....
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