all the "best" players are juiced. their word means nothing and they can't be trusted whatsoever.

the cheaters in professional baseball now rival all the cheaters professional cycling.

getting tired of this sport, no heroes, all villains, yet bud selig STILL is commissioner

luckily football is still clean

quote:

---

the cheaters in professional baseball now rival all the cheaters in professional cycling.

---

It is getting VERY close to this......

Keep in mind this is from '03. Hopefully MLB is cleaned up by now.

like I posted on the other thread, the reality has become if something in sports looks too good to be true, it probably is. (and that is very applicable to cycling as well)

with the new info on A-Rod, just about every player from this decade that has accomplished some kind of incredible, unprecedented, historical power hitting feat has been shown to be a steroid user.

in fact there's only one player left that I can think of. And he plays in St. Louis

What about Fat Howard and Fat Fielder? I think they may just be fat guys that hit the ball a long way.

quote:

---

the cheaters in professional baseball now rival all the cheaters professional cycling.

---

The difference is that cycling is trying to get clean.

MLB has overcome alot. The strike, over half the players are juiced, a tied all star game, the all star game deciding home field in the series. Yet the fans continue to support these teams.

Pujols

Odds are, he has too at some point

As much as I'd like to put this all on Bud (which, he does have to have his fair share of criticism here), there is only so much he can do against such a powerful players union like MLB has........ They hand tie a LOT of situations

Hamilton

I swear--by my life and my love of it--that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
--Ayn Rand

The MLBPA fought drug testing because they were the ones cheating. I don't condone it, but I understand it. By the time of the last contract between the union and owners (2003?), steroids were a big issue. Selig did everything that he could do to make the issue go away without forcing the players to stop juicing.

So many of MLB's star players being exposed as cheaters is the inevitable outcome of Selig's actions. He put the short term interests of baseball (5 years of more record breaking offense) ahead of the long term interests of baseball (massive, long-term fan anger).

The real question is "How will fans react in April?" If it's anywhere near as ugly as it was after the strike, Selig is in real trouble. Hopefully, if that happens, the owners will see the logic in having a real commissioner and not one of their own.

I remember the first Astros home game after the strike. Drayton gave away every seat in the Astrodome, and there will still 20,000 no shows.

Given the amount of substances Hamilton has put in his body, its hardly a stretch to think he did a PED at some point

BMX,
I don't know. I seriously doubt he did PED while he was using heroin. Maybe before the heavy drugs, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I think it's guys like Hamilton, Upton, Mauer, etc that baseball really needs to promote as the faces of the game. Push the likes of ARod to the side and make the guy irrelevant from a PR point of view.

A week ago, people had A-Rod in that group of people to push forward. Look how that turned out.

I'm not saying hamilton used. None of us know one way or the other. I'm just saying I would not be surprised one bit if he (or anyone) failed a test.

Schilling may be the only guy that I'd be surprised by.

BMX, am I crazy for putting Berkman up there with Schilling? Like you said, nothing SHOULD surprise us, but I have to admit I would be floored and probably done with baseball for good if he tested positive.

Hamilton is my hero... he was what like 170lbs...and he was a good kid when he signed then got hurt then got into drugs...didnt have time to juice it up with PED...but just saying he did...he is one that would actually be truly sorry he did...but i would doubt he had time

how do you know he wasn't juicing in high school? the "didn't have time" argument is bogus. the number one excuse of steroid users is "i did it to recover from an injury"

on Berkman, I would be pretty upset if he used. Not shocked though.

Given what we know now, I don't see how any one can say any person didn't use at least one time with any certainty.

quote:

---

Given what we know now, I don't see how any one can say any person didn't use at least one time with any certainty.

---

I'd be pretty shocked if we found out that Juan Pierre and Jason Tyner used them.

why?

they certainly could be smaller than they are now. Jason Grimsley was 6'3" 180 lbs. not much different than either of those players

the reason I don't think Berks used is because he strikes me as the kind of player that just doesn't care enough to use. He likes baseball, but it's doesn't mean the world to him. Like it did for guys like Caminiti, Bagwell, and Biggio.

I hope the latter two didn't use, but they took the game much more serious (every day grinders) than Berks does.

[This message has been edited by W (edited 2/9/2009 12:28p).]

one thing though, just based on averages...

if 104 players are on that 2003 list, then at least 3 should be astros - assuming even distribution among teams

^^^^well you have to consider the fact that the rangers entire 40 man roster was on the list...

****************************

WAR EAGLE!
GIG 'EM!
****************************

Most of the stars in the 50's and 60's were doing amphetamines.

Baseball has never been "clean".

No professional sport has really ever been "clean"... How quickly people forget how many roided players were in the 80's and 90's... You think there's nothing going on now?

As long as there is a competitive advantage to be gained by it, you'll see players try it.