Ag Natural said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Should probably suspend Collins for the rest of the season.

Spurs post-game

Asked Zach Collins about Coach JB Bickerstaff’s comments that the incident with Mitchell was a dirty play on Collins’ part…

Zach’s response:
“It probably was.”

Adds it’ll be worth the fine

Entire thought, including Zach’s description of what happened⬇️#Spurs pic.twitter.com/HfD5X3OB8Z

— Hector Ledesma (@HectorLedesmaTV) February 4, 2024

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There's plenty of precedent showing this isn't a season ending suspension. Especially for a non-repeat offender. One game at most is my guess.

Not to mention he admits it was dirty but only tit for tat with the dirtyi elbow Mitchell dished out before.

---

I'll advocate anything to keep Collins off the court.

He what??? https://t.co/Q8PuadqeXU

— 𝔹𝕖𝕩𝕒𝕣 ℂ𝕠𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕪 𝕊𝕠𝕔𝕚𝕒𝕝 𝔸𝕡𝕡𝕒𝕣𝕖𝕝 (@BexarApparel) February 4, 2024

Guitarsoup said:

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Ag Natural said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

Should probably suspend Collins for the rest of the season.

Spurs post-game

Asked Zach Collins about Coach JB Bickerstaff’s comments that the incident with Mitchell was a dirty play on Collins’ part…

Zach’s response:
“It probably was.”

Adds it’ll be worth the fine

Entire thought, including Zach’s description of what happened⬇️#Spurs pic.twitter.com/HfD5X3OB8Z

— Hector Ledesma (@HectorLedesmaTV) February 4, 2024

---

There's plenty of precedent showing this isn't a season ending suspension. Especially for a non-repeat offender. One game at most is my guess.

Not to mention he admits it was dirty but only tit for tat with the dirtyi elbow Mitchell dished out before.

---

I'll advocate anything to keep Collins off the court.

---

Well your personal opinion toward the player means jack squat. You could at least appreciate his saltiness. We need more harrdasses on this team.

Ag Natural said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

Ag Natural said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

Should probably suspend Collins for the rest of the season.

Spurs post-game

Asked Zach Collins about Coach JB Bickerstaff’s comments that the incident with Mitchell was a dirty play on Collins’ part…

Zach’s response:
“It probably was.”

Adds it’ll be worth the fine

Entire thought, including Zach’s description of what happened⬇️#Spurs pic.twitter.com/HfD5X3OB8Z

— Hector Ledesma (@HectorLedesmaTV) February 4, 2024

---

There's plenty of precedent showing this isn't a season ending suspension. Especially for a non-repeat offender. One game at most is my guess.

Not to mention he admits it was dirty but only tit for tat with the dirtyi elbow Mitchell dished out before.

---

I'll advocate anything to keep Collins off the court.

---

Well your personal opinion toward the player means jack squat. You could at least appreciate his saltiness. We need more harrdasses on this team.

---

Always good to have an enforcer. Even better if the enforcer knows how to play basketball. Collins has had one of those two things down this year.

Spurs interested in Tyus Jones according to hoopshype.

Enzo The Baker said:

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Spurs interested in Tyus Jones according to hoopshype.

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What? Why?

Yea I'm not sure. It doesn't make a lot of sense. He's on an expiring. Maybe we convince him to re-sign with us on a shorter contract for a couple years to play with his brother. Wouldn't give up more than a couple seconds for him though.

Agree with T.Jones. We only need one backup PG and we currently have two.


Needs IMO:
Lead point guard
D&3 SF
Back big
More defense and playmaking in general


Others on the market:

Caruso. I think two firsts is too much, unless they were lottery protected. Maybe two swaps.

DeJounte - I think that ship has sailed. I think he would upgrade us, but he isn't the championship solution at PG.

Dallas wants to upgrade at 4 and Grant Williams is a bad fit there. I wonder if a Wemby/Sochan/Williams front court would work. Williams has shot 39% from three the last three years and is 42% from the corner 3 for his career. He was a really important part of Boston's defense. His contract is 4 years and only 8-9% of the cap per year.

Levine is hurt and isn't a Spurs player.

Demar isn't on the timeline.

I think Bruce Brown fits really well for the Spurs, but we have too many other holes to fill up and Toronto likely wants too much for him.

Daniel Gafford. I like him as a backup center. The Athletic says he is worth a late 1st or two seconds. He is putting up 11/8/2b in 26mpg. Send them Doug or Graham and the Charlotte first.

DeAndreHunter. Shooting 46/40/88 this year for ATL. Solid on ball defender, but hasn't learned team defense according to The Athletic. Just turned 26. First year of a 4y90M contract paying him 14-15% of the cap per year. I think he is overpaid and has been injured too much. Athletic says he is worth a late 1st. If they want to give up him and Patty for charlotte pick, Doug, and Graham, I'm still a maybe. I think he could be solid as a 4th option on offense, though.

Capela. Don't know that he would want to be a 25mpg backup center.

Chris Paul. Too old. If we had the rest of our lineup ready, maybe worth considering, but too many holes.

Markelle Fultz. I would trade Doug and a second for him. He's solid defensively and redundant for Orlando. Plus they need shooting. Ending contract. Can't shoot, but big, passes well and defends.

Davion Mitchell. Want another project PG? Great defender, but offense so bad he can't get on the court.

Miles Brides. Don't think PATFO take a flier on him with his history, but he would match into Cedi's contract slot and no one else seems to want him. Ignoring his off-court issues (which is a lot to ignore) he would be pretty ideal to slot in at SF for this team. Efficient scorer, good passer, good rebounder, good defender. 6'7 with 6'10 wingspan. By talent and fit, he is a no-brainer.

Just not a lot out there that works for us.

Yea. Pass on this trade market. Hopefully we can cook something up in the offseason.

Dillingham just had a monster game for Kentucky. Maybe he could be another option if the raptors' pick conveys.

Guitarsoup said:

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Caruso. I think two firsts is too much, unless they were lottery protected. Maybe two swaps.

---

We should get a discount because he's already a spiritually a Spur.

Victor Wembanyama's scoring is improving rapidly

He increased his volume, then improved his efficiency, and then REALLY increased his volume pic.twitter.com/3lyWooGHA1

— Lev Akabas (@LevAkabas) February 5, 2024

The only thing I could see us getting involved with is if New Orleans tries to make a big move, getting some picks in to get herbert jones or something.

Someone said they offered 5 firsts to Brooklyn for Bridges. I can imagine a scenario where we add picks and ending salaries to the pool to get back Herb.

5 firsts for bridges? Lol shows how picks are valued nowadays. That is dumb.

Enzo The Baker said:

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5 firsts for bridges? Lol shows how picks are valued nowadays. That is dumb.

---

Who knows what it actually is. We got four picks for DJM, but we really got a Charlotte pick that turns into two seconds, a swap and two picks.

Probably something similar. NOLA owns a lot of Bucks picks

Nets highest bid on DJM was Dinwiddie and an unprotected first.

I will be surprised if they move him before the deadline.

We all know what this team needs positionally, and I agree with your list, but beyond positional needs, the Spurs need a 2nd star.

The gravitational pull of putting 2 stars out there at the same time makes everyone better on the team. After watching Devin and Sochan for the last 2 years, those guys aren't alpha stars.

If I'm the Spurs I don't care about positional needs in the draft for the next 2-3 years. All we need to do is find the dude that has what it takes to be a star next to Victor. If we find that guy, we will figure out how to fill the rest of the roster.

AggieEP said:

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We all know what this team needs positionally, and I agree with your list, but beyond positional needs, the Spurs need a 2nd star.

The gravitational pull of putting 2 stars out there at the same time makes everyone better on the team. After watching Devin and Sochan for the last 2 years, those guys aren't alpha stars.

If I'm the Spurs I don't care about positional needs in the draft for the next 2-3 years. All we need to do is find the dude that has what it takes to be a star next to Victor. If we find that guy, we will figure out how to fill the rest of the roster.

---

I think if we had an all-star level PG, then everyone on the team would be significantly more efficient. I think having a second real star would be great, but I don't think it is absolutely necessary.

I don't think that Denver has two stars. They have Joker and their second best player is Jamal Murray. Murray is very good, but I don't think of him as a big star with gravitational pull - like say Kobe and Shaq. MPJ and Gordon are both very good players, but again not stars.

If we score a star-level scoring SF or PF that works with Wemby and is also a really good passer, then we don't need as high a level of PG. But we still need to find (or develop) at least a starter-level PG.

No matter how else we fill out the roster, we need 1-2 more guys that can create easier shots for everyone else.

Look at all the teams that win titles and they have that.
Denver - Joker
GSW - Draymond and Curry
MIlwaukee - Jrue, Giannis, Khris
Lakers - LeBron and Rondo
Raptors - Lowry, FVV, Gasol
Cavs - LeBron and Kyrie
14 Spurs - whole damn team
Heat - Bron and Wade
Mavs - Kidd and Terry

I fully believe you need:
* great team defense (we need a bunch of building blocks here, but have a great start with Wemby/Sochan)
* Primary playmakers. We have secondary playmakers in Tre, Sochan, and Vassell. Which is important, but doesn't fill the big need.
* Elite Scorer that can get the tough buckets when it matters. Wemby is that man. Guys like Harden or Embiid that rely on being foul merchants are not. For a long time, that was the guys that got into the paint and got great, high percentage shots like Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Robinson, etc. I think in today's NBA if you have enough good shooters and enough good passers, you can mitigate the need for a second elite player to grind in those buckets. But you need great team passing like GSW, Milwaukee, and the 14 Spurs did to do it.



I think that Sochan can become a Khris Middleton, possibly with better defense and better rebounding. From 18-22, Khris averaged 20/6/5 with 46/39/88 shooting numbers on 25% usage. Sochan's January was 13/7/3 on 46/38/85 numbers with 19% usage.

I keep waiting for Devin to make that leap, but his shot selection keeps him down. I think a better primary playmaker will help that. On open 3s he hits 44% and on corner threes he is hitting 51% this year and 48% last year. But he takes like 30% of his shots between 10-22 feet. On 2pt shots, with 0-2 dribbles he shoots about 61% but on 3-6 dribbles it is 54% and 7+ dribbles it is 40%. But 23% of his shots are 2pt shots after taking 3+ dribbles. We need less ISO ball with Devin, and the only way we can do that is by getting in a primary playmaker. I do think if we got him to a more off-ball slashing and 3 role, his efficiency would go up a lot, but we don't have enough playmakers do that.

If you brought in a guy like Miles Bridges at SF, you could probably get away with a Caruso-level PG. Maybe a washed Mike Conley (free agent this year.)


---------
Off Season:
Likely only the MLE to spend.

1-4th pick
7-9th pick (51% chance right now)

1st pick: Risacher? Topic?
2nd pick: Reed Shepherd, Rob Dillingham, Ryan Dunn, Matas Buzelis

We likely only have the MLE, and I would love to get SloMo back with that. + defender, great passer, all-around Spurs player.

Post: Wemby/Collins/Barlow/Bassey
PF: Sochan/SloMo/Julian
SF: Ricacher/Keldon/Cissoko
SG: Devin/Keldon/Branham
PG: Shepherd or Dillingham/Jones/Wesley

or:

Post: Wemby/Collins/Barlow/Bassey
PF: Sochan/SloMo/Julian
SF: Buzelis or Dunn/Keldon/Cissoko
SG: Devin/Keldon/Branham
PG: Topic/Jones/Wesley

I don't know if Bassey and/or Barlow can take the leap where they are 20-25 MPG players on a championship team, but I love what I have seen lately from Barlow.

Pretty good recap of an interview Pop did with L'Equipe.

Coach Pop in a recent interview with L’Equipe:

A lot of great stuff:

- Spurs are going to be patient in their approach.
- Spurs are building organically through the draft like OKC did.
- Pop believes there’s no such thing as a PG or traditional pivot anymore and alluded to Vic…

— Eric Salinas (@EricSal_7) February 6, 2024

AggieEP said:

---

We all know what this team needs positionally, and I agree with your list, but beyond positional needs, the Spurs need a 2nd star.

The gravitational pull of putting 2 stars out there at the same time makes everyone better on the team. After watching Devin and Sochan for the last 2 years, those guys aren't alpha stars.

If I'm the Spurs I don't care about positional needs in the draft for the next 2-3 years. All we need to do is find the dude that has what it takes to be a star next to Victor. If we find that guy, we will figure out how to fill the rest of the roster.

---

Devin and Jeremy could very well turn into star level players. Devin is a well above average scorer right now and just turned 23. Sochan has several elite talents and definitely has that alpha attitude you want. And he's only 20.

I think everyone forgets or just doesn't pay attention to how long it typically takes for young players to develop. And PGs have the longest learning curve of them all. Trey Jones has improved quite a bit in 2 seasons. He may turn out to be the answer. The problem is the league is loaded at PG right now. I saw a ranking that had Dejounte Murray as the 15th best today.

Step 1: Draft Risacher this year

Step 2: Trade Atlanta their stuff back but for Trae Young this time and not Dejounte Murray

Trae/Dev/Risacher/Sochan/Wemby with Keldon as sixth man. Wemby gets his French buddy, we get one of the best offensive PGs in the league, and Dev and Sochan now get to float into their long term roles.

Quote:

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"He plays pivot at times, and a lot of people see him that way because he's the tallest guy on the floor, but these days, there's NO SUCH THING as an old-fashioned point guard or pivot. Everything is interchangeable. So you can see Victor isolated on a wing, on the block, involved in a central pick and roll. Sometimes he'll be the one holding the ball on this option, or bringing it up after a rebound. He does everything, which is precisely what I expect of him. He also wants to and has the aptitude for it. This time of observation was necessary. We didn't know him that well. Video highlights aren't enough. We needed twenty, thirty matches, to see where he felt most at ease, what were the obvious things to correct. He had to adapt to the roughness of the game, because he's got a target on his back and everyone wants to get in his face physically."


[url=https://twitter.com/EricSal_7/status/1754871178148130969][/url]

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[url=https://twitter.com/EricSal_7/status/1754871178148130969][/url]
On of the Spurs could you have speeded up the process by adding one or two veterans?

Quote:

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" We didn't, for two reasons. Firstly, to "keep your powder dry", i.e. to wait before spending for spending's sake, and to retain that financial room for manoeuvre. Once the structure is established, it will be important to add a few free agents. Taking on a veteran this season would not have led us to the title. In other words, it would be a waste of money, and more importantly, a waste of time that we need to use to develop other players around Victor. Look at Devin Vassell (23), he's becoming excellent, he wasn't at this level when he arrived (drafted 11th in 2020). He's gained in confidence and game intelligence, and has elevated his defense. An experienced player would have slowed down this process for him and the others. But I want this core to evolve together, for Victor to grow with them."

---

[url=https://twitter.com/EricSal_7/status/1754871182845768065][/url]

In college terms, this is what our team would be:

Wemby: Sophomore
Cissoko: Sophomore
Sochan: Junior
Wesley: Junior
Branham: Junior
Barlow: Junior
Julian: 5th year senior (turns 23 after the season)
Bassey: 6th year senior
Vassell: 6th year senior
Tre Jones: 6th year senior
Keldon: 6th year senior

TheNotoriousP.I.P. said:

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Step 1: Draft Risacher this year

Step 2: Trade Atlanta their stuff back but for Trae Young this time and not Dejounte Murray

Trae/Dev/Risacher/Sochan/Wemby with Keldon as sixth man. Wemby gets his French buddy, we get one of the best offensive PGs in the league, and Dev and Sochan now get to float into their long term roles.

---

I don't want to live in a world where we see every team hunting Trae Young over and over on every possession.

https://theathletic.com/5254648/2024/02/06/tre-jones-spurs-starting-lineup/

33 games to start the season with Tre Jones on bench:

Quote:

---

It had produced just five victories and an 18-game losing streak.

Worse, it produced a horrendous average point differential of minus-10.5 points per game.

---

Quote:

---

Since Gregg Popovich put him back in the starting lineup, the Spurs have gone 5-12. The lone blowout loss in that time came against Oklahoma City, with Jones in street clothes nursing a sore right ankle.

In Jones' 16 starts, the Spurs' average point differential is minus-0.5, an indication of how much more competitive they are now than they were during the 2023 portion of the schedule.

That six of the 11 losses with Jones in his more significant role have been by single digits matters for the league's youngest team, which is still in its early stages of development.

---

Quote:

---

Popovich has acknowledged Jones as one of the most competitive of all this season's Spurs. He has called him "the ultimate competitor" on numerous occasions, often throwing in the ultimate praise.

---

Quote:

---

Jones has developed a special synergy with rookie sensation Wembanyama. They have made the high pick-and-roll a staple of the offense, and Jones is adept at getting to the rim for layins and floaters when opponents decide Wembanyama is the bigger problem in the lane.
And, when he passes to Wemby after coming off the pick, he continues to make himself available for a return pass because Wembanyama's court vision is one of his strengths.
"Victor's IQ is high on the basketball court," Jones said. "He thinks the game at a very high level and that's where we're able to be on the same page. Early in our careers and playing together, the way he thinks about the game is very similar to how I think of the game as a point guard.
"You can tell he watches a lot of basketball and is eager to learn, as well, and pick up new things. It's easy to play with a guy like that."

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

https://theathletic.com/5254648/2024/02/06/tre-jones-spurs-starting-lineup/

33 games to start the season with Tre Jones on bench:

Quote:

---

It had produced just five victories and an 18-game losing streak.

Worse, it produced a horrendous average point differential of minus-10.5 points per game.

---

Quote:

---

Since Gregg Popovich put him back in the starting lineup, the Spurs have gone 5-12. The lone blowout loss in that time came against Oklahoma City, with Jones in street clothes nursing a sore right ankle.

In Jones' 16 starts, the Spurs' average point differential is minus-0.5, an indication of how much more competitive they are now than they were during the 2023 portion of the schedule.

That six of the 11 losses with Jones in his more significant role have been by single digits matters for the league's youngest team, which is still in its early stages of development.

---

Quote:

---

Popovich has acknowledged Jones as one of the most competitive of all this season's Spurs. He has called him "the ultimate competitor" on numerous occasions, often throwing in the ultimate praise.

---

Quote:

---

Jones has developed a special synergy with rookie sensation Wembanyama. They have made the high pick-and-roll a staple of the offense, and Jones is adept at getting to the rim for layins and floaters when opponents decide Wembanyama is the bigger problem in the lane.
And, when he passes to Wemby after coming off the pick, he continues to make himself available for a return pass because Wembanyama's court vision is one of his strengths.
"Victor's IQ is high on the basketball court," Jones said. "He thinks the game at a very high level and that's where we're able to be on the same page. Early in our careers and playing together, the way he thinks about the game is very similar to how I think of the game as a point guard.
"You can tell he watches a lot of basketball and is eager to learn, as well, and pick up new things. It's easy to play with a guy like that."

---

---

Wemby is so good man. Tre has been steady for us. But for us to be successful, we need to get other high IQ players on the team too. Hopefully that comes with time.

Enzo The Baker said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

https://theathletic.com/5254648/2024/02/06/tre-jones-spurs-starting-lineup/

33 games to start the season with Tre Jones on bench:

Quote:

---

It had produced just five victories and an 18-game losing streak.

Worse, it produced a horrendous average point differential of minus-10.5 points per game.

---

Quote:

---

Since Gregg Popovich put him back in the starting lineup, the Spurs have gone 5-12. The lone blowout loss in that time came against Oklahoma City, with Jones in street clothes nursing a sore right ankle.

In Jones' 16 starts, the Spurs' average point differential is minus-0.5, an indication of how much more competitive they are now than they were during the 2023 portion of the schedule.

That six of the 11 losses with Jones in his more significant role have been by single digits matters for the league's youngest team, which is still in its early stages of development.

---

Quote:

---

Popovich has acknowledged Jones as one of the most competitive of all this season's Spurs. He has called him "the ultimate competitor" on numerous occasions, often throwing in the ultimate praise.

---

Quote:

---

Jones has developed a special synergy with rookie sensation Wembanyama. They have made the high pick-and-roll a staple of the offense, and Jones is adept at getting to the rim for layins and floaters when opponents decide Wembanyama is the bigger problem in the lane.
And, when he passes to Wemby after coming off the pick, he continues to make himself available for a return pass because Wembanyama's court vision is one of his strengths.
"Victor's IQ is high on the basketball court," Jones said. "He thinks the game at a very high level and that's where we're able to be on the same page. Early in our careers and playing together, the way he thinks about the game is very similar to how I think of the game as a point guard.
"You can tell he watches a lot of basketball and is eager to learn, as well, and pick up new things. It's easy to play with a guy like that."

---

---

Wemby is so good man. Tre has been steady for us. But for us to be successful, we need to get other high IQ players on the team too. Hopefully that comes with time.

---

I'm glad Tre is getting some credit. This team has been playing decent ball since the change. Its a little weird that everyone kind of ignores the other major change. Moving Wemby to Center and Collins to the bench. This combo of changes deserves equal praise IMO.

Tre has undoubtedly been better than the alternatives (Sochan, Branham, Wesley); however, he's still not a very good player. The Spurs desperately need to upgrade their guard play this Summer.

I think Tre is great as a 2nd team PG - even better if his shot can develop as much as his brother's.

I would love to see a run and gun 2nd team with Tre, Keldon, Barlow and two other quick/transition type players. I think you definitely run Sochan with that group as well, if we can get someone else to play with the first team that fits well (like maybe a better Cedi.) Maybe if Wesley could figure out a 3pt shot, his speed would be ridiculous on that. Barlow, Sochan, Keldon, Wesley, Tre just running, cutting, and wearing teams out would be great. A lot of speed and athleticism with that group of 5.

Also, from everything Pop has said, Tre is an elite locker room/practice guy that you want on the team.

We see the team and basically know what Wemby is going to develop into. What will Cissoko, Sochan, Wesley, Branham, Barlow, Bassey turn into is just a complete mystery.

Great post on Wemby's defensive impact.

https://www.basketballpoetry.com/p/should-victor-wembanyama-be-defensive

Sher Thing said:

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Tre has undoubtedly been better than the alternatives (Sochan, Branham, Wesley); however, he's still not a very good player. The Spurs desperately need to upgrade their guard play this Summer.

---

He's better than you give him credit for. And more importantly, he's not done improving. PG is the hardest position in basketball and he's already good at some of the intangible aspects of the role.

I mean, Jamal Murray is a star in my mind and of many others

https://theathletic.com/5153874/2023/12/20/jamal-murray-nba-all-star-game-nuggets-raptors/

The second star theory basically just allows you to find a way to play most of the 48 minutes with at least one on the floor and a good number of minutes with both. Right now Wemby is playing 25 to 30 minutes a game leaving almost 50 percent of some games to the other guys.

We could probably argue over the definition of a star, but to me it's any player that you have to dedicate game planning to stop. A player that forces you out of your base sets and draws the attention of your whole defense. There is an obvious advantage to having two of these guys because it's much harder for a defense to game plan around stopping multiple stars.

For a good example recently, the last 5 minutes of the Lakers and Knicks game, the Lakers just trapped and double teamed Jalen Brunson. They neutralized him, which is only a problem because the Knicks don't have a second alpha to punish the Lakers with in that situation.

If the Spurs were more competitive, we'd see more of this against Wemby. And when we do, we need killers out there to make them pay. Right now we're set up to be the 03 to 09 Cavs where Lebron was surrounded by a group of good NBA players that weren't good enough to win a championship.

Guitar, don't you remember what the Spurs did to Lebron in the finals when he was with the Cavs? We designed the whole defense to make him shoot jump shots and there was no one else on the team to step up and make us pay for how we played Lebron.

I agree with you that a playmaking PG star is ideal, but I'll take a star of any kind.

Ag Natural said:

---

Sher Thing said:

---

Tre has undoubtedly been better than the alternatives (Sochan, Branham, Wesley); however, he's still not a very good player. The Spurs desperately need to upgrade their guard play this Summer.

---

He's better than you give him credit for. And more importantly, he's not done improving. PG is the hardest position in basketball and he's already good at some of the intangible aspects of the role.

---

I agree with the intangibles. But he is still undersized (6'0.5 and 6'4 wingspan at the combine) and doesn't have a good shot (28% from three this year and 28% from three for his career.) He's a pretty good off-ball defender and does a really good job getting into passing lanes and creating deflections (he is actually 87th percentile at deflections in the NBA) but he gets hunted defensively because of his size.

With his size and IQ, I would be thrilled if he could develop into a Mike Conley-type player. But he has to develop a shot. I think the basketball IQ is there for him to be able to put it together. But if he doesn't get a shot that is respectable, teams are just going to give him space and keep him from creating, which will ultimately put more pressure on Wemby and others because they will be easier to double.

AggieEP said:

---

I mean, Jamal Murray is a star in my mind and of many others

https://theathletic.com/5153874/2023/12/20/jamal-murray-nba-all-star-game-nuggets-raptors/

The second star theory basically just allows you to find a way to play most of the 48 minutes with at least one on the floor and a good number of minutes with both. Right now Wemby is playing 25 to 30 minutes a game leaving almost 50 percent of some games to the other guys.

We could probably argue over the definition of a star, but to me it's any player that you have to dedicate game planning to stop. A player that forces you out of your base sets and draws the attention of your whole defense. There is an obvious advantage to having two of these guys because it's much harder for a defense to game plan around stopping multiple stars.

For a good example recently, the last 5 minutes of the Lakers and Knicks game, the Lakers just trapped and double teamed Jalen Brunson. They neutralized him, which is only a problem because the Knicks don't have a second alpha to punish the Lakers with in that situation.

If the Spurs were more competitive, we'd see more of this against Wemby. And when we do, we need killers out there to make them pay. Right now we're set up to be the 03 to 09 Cavs where Lebron was surrounded by a group of good NBA players that weren't good enough to win a championship.

Guitar, don't you remember what the Spurs did to Lebron in the finals when he was with the Cavs? We designed the whole defense to make him shoot jump shots and there was no one else on the team to step up and make us pay for how we played Lebron.

I agree with you that a playmaking PG star is ideal, but I'll take a star of any kind.

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I do remember. And I think a better example was the Kobe Lakers. I remember Pop just wanting to frustrate Kobe and make him want to overdo things so that he would end up trying to take over the game, but playing inefficiently in the process.

Kobe's career splits vs the Spurs are .426/.291 with TS% of .506. Career stats are .447/.329 with TS% of .550. His career ORTG was 1.01 points per possession vs the Spurs and 1.10 PPG for his career.

Kobe was 25-36 against the Spurs for his career.

You are absolutely right. We need that second consistent scorer. While I don't think Murray or MPJ or Gordon are stars, they are more respectable than our scorers around Wemby for sure. I would be thrilled to have a PG like Murray on this team (even better if he stays healthy.)

A second elite scorer would be fantastic to have, but I also think that if we can build the right guys around Wemby that are coached up on making the extra pass and playing team defense, we can get away with not having the second star. Hakeem in the mid-90s is a good example. He was able to take the double team and he had guys like Elie, Kenny, Horry, Max and Cassell that would make a smart pass and make you pay for doubling off them.

I think as Spurs fans we have nostalgia for the beautiful game Spurs that beat the Heat. We think we can recreate that with the right pieces.

But the reality is that even for the Spurs, the beautiful game teams were outliers in offensive efficiency. Popovich hasn't been able to recreate that magic in the last 10 years and I'm not betting on him doing it again at this point.

A second elite scorer is what is needed.