Infection_Ag11 said:

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Defense has been borderline great outside of 2 quarters. Boston is averaging 15 points below their season average and if not for those 2 quarters they are otherwise on pace for 20 points below their average.

If you told me before the series that Boston would average 105ish points per game and Luka didn't miss any time with injuries I'd have told you they would win, probably in 5-6. I expected Boston to win by spreading us out and torching us from 3 but what has happened instead is they have just driven the Mavs offensive efficiency down so low that it's virtually impossible for them to win. You are NOT keeping this Celtics team in the 90s consistently no matter how good your defense is, so if you can't score the triple digits you have no shot.

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Boston's offensive rating is still around 115 in every game and their offensive rating for the playoffs is 118.5. So the Mavs are only doing slightly better than the three teams Boston played before.

Comparing game averages from regular season to the playoffs is not apples to apples. Boston wasn't even scoring at their regular season levels in the first 3 rounds.

PatAg said:

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He just took us to the finals at age 25, and was dominant throughout.
We aren't even lost thr series, and everyone is just losing their mind about Luka. It's ridiculous

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Luka is the least of our problems imo.

With that being said, Nico has to be aggressive this summer as this championship window is now. Yes the mavs have a young team, but kyrie probably only has 2-3 good years left. Go get a real knockdown shooter

ramblin_ag02 said:

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No lie that the Celtics are a bad matchup, but our defense hasn't been the problem. The Celtics have scored 105,106, and 107. That's not bad, but it's not overwhelming either. The story has been our entire team going cold from 3. If our role players just get in the general vicinity of their season averages from 3, then we're up 2-1.

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The offense is definitely the bigger issue. But it's because 5 out teams can just switch the PNR which basically negates the lob threat and now corner defenders don't have to tag the role man, so corner shooters aren't open.

Luka is playing 1v1 on almost every offensive possession and it is clearly wearing on him. He can't handle the load of having to beat his man every time while also having to be locked in on every defensive possession.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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I also don't think it's as simple as "hit your shots". Boston isn't allowing nearly as many open looks as our previous 3 opponents, their contest rate is very high. They are also taking away the corners.

They are all in on letting Luka have his and shutting down everyone else. The Mavs role players not playing well isn't because they just started being terrible players, it's because Boston is actively devoting quality defensive resources to making sure they can't help Luka and Kyrie.

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I'm not following the advance stats, but I'm watching a lot of Mavs brick a lot of open shots from 3. Luka and Kyrie are being contested at the 3 point line, but Kleber, PJ, DJJ, THJ, Green and Exum are getting good looks. All of those guys are over 30% on 3 for the year and can't hit the broad side of a barn right now.

edit: Apologies to PJ. He's 4/14 from 3 in the series, which is pretty good. Everyone not named Luka, Kyrie or PJ is 5/22 which is abysmal

Nothing he does costs us games.

ramblin_ag02 said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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I also don't think it's as simple as "hit your shots". Boston isn't allowing nearly as many open looks as our previous 3 opponents, their contest rate is very high. They are also taking away the corners.

They are all in on letting Luka have his and shutting down everyone else. The Mavs role players not playing well isn't because they just started being terrible players, it's because Boston is actively devoting quality defensive resources to making sure they can't help Luka and Kyrie.

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I'm not following the advance stats, but I'm watching a lot of Mavs brick a lot of open shots from 3. Luka and Kyrie are being contested at the 3 point line, but Kleber, PJ, DJJ, THJ, Green and Exum are getting good looks. All of those guys are over 30% on 3 for the year and can't hit the broad side of a barn right now.

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They just aren't quite as open as they have been in previous series because there is no more lob threat when they switch the 1-5 screen. Boston just has generally better/smarter defenders and quicker players than most teams we have played also.

PJ actually made a couple yesterday with a hand right in his face and he was 3-6 on the night which you will take every time. The 3 point percentage looks worse from last night than it should because THJ was 0-3 and Luka was 1-7. If Luka makes one more three, the Mavs shoot 10-25 which is 40% and a good night.

Boston is just out-mathing us. They are taking away 3s (we only had 25 attempts). Remember last season and 2 seasons ago when we were shooting 45 a game? Boston wants to shoot 45-50 3s a game, but the difference is they always have 5 guys on the floor who shoot nearly 40% or better. They shot 1% better than us from 3 but made 8 more than us. That is devastating.

PatAg said:

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Nothing he does costs us games.

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That's just a ridiculous statement. Nothing at all?

Look at that twitter video above. Two possessions in a row he falls down on 3s and that leads to easy buckets for Boston. The first one was a Hauser 3 because he spent 10 seconds to get back on d. The next one was Tatum standing under the basket by himself for a dunk at the very end of a quarter. hose were ridiculous things from Luka that directly led to 5 Boston points. And that's just in 2 possessions.

PatAg said:

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Nothing he does costs us games.

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nothing? Lol

M.C. Swag said:

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PatAg said:

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Nothing he does costs us games.

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nothing? Lol

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When you consider all of the things that he does, he is not the one "costing" us, lol.
This is not saying Im happy he fouled out, but anyone that is implying he is in any way responsible for any of the 3 losses is not worth listening too.
Was typing this quickly, Im really talking about public discourse. We're allowed to be miserable on here, **** sucks lol.

shack009 said:

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PatAg said:

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Nothing he does costs us games.

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That's just a ridiculous statement. Nothing at all?

Look at that twitter video above. Two possessions in a row he falls down on 3s and that leads to easy buckets for Boston. The first one was a Hauser 3 because he spent 10 seconds to get back on d. The next one was Tatum standing under the basket by himself for a dunk at the very end of a quarter. hose were ridiculous things from Luka that directly led to 5 Boston points. And that's just in 2 possessions.

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shack009 said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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No lie that the Celtics are a bad matchup, but our defense hasn't been the problem. The Celtics have scored 105,106, and 107. That's not bad, but it's not overwhelming either. The story has been our entire team going cold from 3. If our role players just get in the general vicinity of their season averages from 3, then we're up 2-1.

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The offense is definitely the bigger issue. But it's because 5 out teams can just switch the PNR which basically negates the lob threat and now corner defenders don't have to tag the role man, so corner shooters aren't open.

Luka is playing 1v1 on almost every offensive possession and it is clearly wearing on him. He can't handle the load of having to beat his man every time while also having to be locked in on every defensive possession.

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Agree with all of this.
I would say to take that a step further, just playing "5 out" doesnt mean you can switch pick and rolls and negate lob threats. Its the specific players they have in all of their crucial roles that allow them to do it.

Luka's weight isn't entirely negative though. Early in his career a guy like Dort would have shut him down. These days he can dog walk any wing defender in the NBA wherever he wants to take them because he's bigger and stronger.

There's a highlight video from the Clippers series a few years back in bubble attempting to show how much "better" he was then and it completely neglects all the times George and Leonard just bodied him and he couldn't do anything about it.

I mean, he was never particularly good at just going by good defenders. Hes always had speed/quickness limitations.

"Luka is the Mavs solution, not their problem."

I know we are all doom and glooming, and I know ****'s bad right now (shoutout President Camacho)... we could have won the last 2 games and were right there in both.
We should feel confident in being in any game remaining, and that we know we be in a spot to win them.
Obviously very, very hard to win 4 in a row, but Im not sure why everyone is just acting like the series is already over.
That's no fun.

I don't see how you can watch the previous games and think we have even a remote possibility to win 4 in a row against this team. They have 4-5 guys that can create, pass, defend, and shoot the 3. We have 2 if Kyrie is hitting his shot...and if Luka misses his shot then he hangs back to bark at the ref instead of playing D. Like InfectiousAg said, everything is just so laborious for us

DannyDuberstein said:

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I'm a fan and always hoping for a miracle, but 0-156 is 0-156. 152 out of 156 ended before game 7. So I'm not gonna begrudge anyone for thinking it's over because, well, it always has been.

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I meant over in the sense that people seem to just be accepting a sweep, which is sad.

The Mavs have shown enough in the series that I think they can win tonight. No idea if they will, but I certainly think they can.

All true and he's also always hurt at this time of year. It's not enough to say "but he's hurt." Why is he always hurt late in the year? Can't have anything to do with the fact that he doesn't treat his body right.

Agreed, it's like saying Luka had a +10 game, he can't be the problem. He'd be +14-16 if he'd play smart, basic defense. That's what this team needs to have a chance.

I would also buy the hurt / injured argument more if he was not throwing himself all over the place on offense.

We were just making fun of the TWolves for their workout video after they beat Denver and talking about the Suns "winners work" video. I said everybody does that after game.

Well that's not exactly true. Could you imagine Luka digging weights and doing calisthenics on an exercise ball after a game? It's not fathomable. If he did that he wouldn't look the way he does and be exhausted after every game.

Hes out having recovery beers.

HawthornAggie said:

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Y'all gotta get over this. We are in the finals. None of yall had the Mavs in the finals. Luka had one of the best individual regular seasons ever statistically and carried us through the last two playoff series. He will learn from all this so stop dwelling.

In addition, it's been 26 days since THJ made a shot.

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I did say pre season that if the Mavs got some injury luck they would make some serious noise in the post season.

HawthornAggie said:

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Y'all gotta get over this. We are in the finals. None of yall had the Mavs in the finals. Luka had one of the best individual regular seasons ever statistically and carried us through the last two playoff series. He will learn from all this so stop dwelling.

In addition, it's been 26 days since THJ made a shot.

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I get that take, but also think it's a very lazy one. The difference between Luka being a legendary hall of fame player and being one of the best 3 of all time is all himself. He's incredible, he's gotten us this far and yet still capable of more...if he grows up. He's running the danger of falling into the Lebron hate camp with his antics. I'll love him either way, but only because he's a Mav. He quickly became an overnight hero globally and he risks it all by continuing to play into the Luka naysayers narrative with the whining, flopping, lazy defense, bad body language, etc. It's all a waste of time, it hurts him, hurts his team and will ultimately hurt his legacy if he doesn't grow out of it.

M.C. Swag said:

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HawthornAggie said:

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Y'all gotta get over this. We are in the finals. None of yall had the Mavs in the finals. Luka had one of the best individual regular seasons ever statistically and carried us through the last two playoff series. He will learn from all this so stop dwelling.

In addition, it's been 26 days since THJ made a shot.

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I did say pre season that if the Mavs got some injury luck they would make some serious noise in the post season.

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Haha count it

The Luka stuff in the national media is dumb. It's a bunch of people that just want their sound bite or hot take or their "told you so."

At the same time, it has caused some Mavs fans to say he is beyond reproach. He isn't.

It's absolutely crazy to think that he is already one of the two or three best players in the world, and he can still get better. He can go to another level and become by far the scariest player on the planet. But he's got to get his mind right both off and on the court.

We will need him to level up because Ant and the TWolves are on the come up and OKC is already really good and has assets for years.

zgolfz85 said:

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HawthornAggie said:

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Y'all gotta get over this. We are in the finals. None of yall had the Mavs in the finals. Luka had one of the best individual regular seasons ever statistically and carried us through the last two playoff series. He will learn from all this so stop dwelling.

In addition, it's been 26 days since THJ made a shot.

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I get that take, but also think it's a very lazy one. The difference between Luka being a legendary hall of fame player and being one of the best 3 of all time is all himself. He's incredible, he's gotten us this far and yet still capable of more...if he grows up. He's running the danger of falling into the Lebron hate camp with his antics. I'll love him either way, but only because he's a Mav. He quickly became an overnight hero globally and he risks it all by continuing to play into the Luka naysayers narrative with the whining, flopping, lazy defense, bad body language, etc. It's all a waste of time, it hurts him, hurts his team and will ultimately hurt his legacy if he doesn't grow out of it.

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It's not a "take". Luka statistically had one of the greatest individual seasons. Luka carried the Mavs through 2 playoff series. Those are both facts backed up data.

I'll give you that him learning from all this is not a fact. But we have also seen Luka be better year over year in almost every season, if not every season, of his NBA career. So he has demonstrated that he is capable of learning how to be a better player virtually every year. I'm willing to bet that losing an NBA finals game, something he has never done in his career, will make him improve in the areas you want him to "grow out of". Tough lesson to learn, but I think he learns from it and improves.