They would have drafted God Shammgod and won 12 consecutive NBA titles.

If this is a lead-in to trash talk it's kind of dumb. There are three teams (Detroit, Boston, and Los Angeles) where this argument doesn't work, and for those you just need to wipe out two players each for all of their post-merger titles to go away. Yes, you need great players and luck to win titles.

If it's just musing, the Spurs still might have gotten one or two. Pair a top guard/sf with Robinson, Elliot, and Pop and that's a really good team until Robinson's back goes. Of course, the guy you really want in hindsite is Tracy McGrady who went ninth. Chauncey Billups went third, he won a title at point guard on a similar team without a big like Robinson.

I mean, could this argument not be used for every team that has seen success due to the greatness of a player?

edit: meant to reply to OP not Odoyle Rules

WGAS

Success in the NBA is linked to the arbitrary nature of the draft. If your team has no shot at the title and your GM isn trying to maximize your draft odds, then they should be fired immediately. Additionally, the organization still has to make that player shine after they draft him. Jordan, Dirk, Lebron, Shaq, Kobe, Wade, Hakeem, etc. all needed great organizational support to finally reach their championship potential. Some of those guys had to grow up, some had to wait for the right coach, others had to leave to find greener pastures and some were just drafted by a HOF coach.

s13fenton said:

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I mean, could this argument not be used for every team that has seen success due to the greatness of a player?

edit: meant to reply to OP not Odoyle Rules

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I think where the equivalency fails is that Spurs had injured players which caused them to be so terrible - where other teams were just terrible without injuries.

Maybe Duncan would've signed with the Spurs after his rookie contract was up.

O'Doyle Rules said:

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And the rockets would have 0 if Jordan didn't retire

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How many championships would the Rockets have if they had drafted Jordan?

What is the point of OP question? I'm confused. Or is he?

I never quite understand comments like 'what is the point of this question?'

it is a discussion board. People talk about stuff and throw out scenarios to debate. If you aren't interested, click another link instead

the spurs won the championships so everything else is just internet fodder. pop is great coach. Lots of good players. etc

However, it is amazing that they basically had one season where key players got hurt, causing them to go in the lottery (extremely rare for the spurs), winning the lottery, and it all happens to be the year a once in a generation player comes out. The odds of this are very low.

Some teams toil around in the lottery forever, never win it (move down every time in fact like the mavs), and never get a player close to Duncan. Therefore, I think it is interesting to discuss scenarios that are (1) incredible rare and (2) very pivotal.

I still say the spurs likely don't win any titles if the incredible scenario didn't play out. They still had to get other players and have a great coach so I tip my cap.

A similar question could be asked about Emmitt Smith. What if the Bengals hadn't taken James Francis from Baylor (Cowboys first choice over Emmitt)? Would the Cowboys had won any titles? Maybe, maybe not. The difference is that who drafts who is much less crazy statistically over the Duncan draft scenario.

How many would Houston have won if they had traded Sampson for the pick that became Jordan?

If Wilt Chamberlain and Cheryl Swoopes had twin boys who played for the Mavericks, they'd be on the verge of winning their 5th title next year.

Also: If Duncan hadn't promised his late mom to finish college, Spurs would have zero titles. He was definitely a top 5 player after his junior season and I believe he would have been #1 overall.

I'm glad he took his mom's advice.

CactusThomas said:

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Think about this..

If Shaq were 6 feet tall and Trump lost the election, Spurs would have 15 championships.

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if the Hornets hadn't traded Kobe...Spurs would have even more titles.

jjmanzano said:

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CactusThomas said:

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Think about this..

If Shaq were 6 feet tall and Trump lost the election, Spurs would have 15 championships.

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if the Hornets hadn't traded Kobe...Spurs would have even more titles.

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This is an interesting and legit what if....if you recall, the trade was sending Vlade Divac to Charlotte in exchange for the draft rights, which they used to take Kobe. AFTER THE DRAFT, Vlade threatened to retire rather than go to Charlotte. He eventually agreed, but had the trade fallen thru, Kobe plays in Charlotte for the first few years of his career.

Farmer1906 said:

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O'Doyle Rules said:

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And the rockets would have 0 if Jordan didn't retire

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Magic won in 6

MJ shot 48% and averaged 31 that series

Shaq & Penny were just better.

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I concur. I hate people acting like Jordan was playing on one leg or some crap. He is the goat and was already back to being the goat when that series happened. Shaq was a bad mofo and Jordan is lucky they got Rodman the next year.

Also, there is something to be said that Jordan playing baseball helped the Bulls win those 3 later titles because he took a break from Pippen and the Bulls, and that break was needed because sometimes guys get sick of each other, even when teams are a success. During that break, Pippen got his chance to be the man, and he was in a much better place mentally for Jordan's return than if they had tried to win #4 and #5 in a row, because those titles likely don't happen (and it does help they get Rodman, which also might not happen had Jordan not retired and returned).

The Lakers won 3 in a row and Kobe and Shaq were ready to be done with each other, but did stay together for a short time, but weren't as effective.
The Warriors had their run, and KD bailed and bodies broke down.