Harry Dunne said:

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Let me just put it this way, if we had Trevor Ariza out there playing 35 minutes a game and Carmelo taking over the 10-20 minutes Ryan Anderson was playing at the end of last season, I don't think we would be having these same conversations.

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I disagree. I've watched melo. It's not a minutes issue. His level up play is just that bad. I don't think he can provide 10 quality minutes on a consistent basis.

Harry Dunne said:

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As far as reducing his minutes, it's pretty simple math. If you aren't as good with him out there, the fewer minutes he's out there the better you will be.

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And this is just an absurdly obvious statement. Bad players are bad....no kidding less playing time is better for the team.

There is nothing in Melo's game that makes me think he can be a "+" in any capacity is what I'm saying. He can mayyyyyybe squeak out a decent quarter every now and again, but in the totality of his game, over the course of a season, I don't see an aggregate "team improvement" type of player. Which is compounded by the fact that he's old and has no hope for developing into something of a '+' player down the road. He is what he is and will only get worse over time.

M.C. Swag said:

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Harry Dunne said:

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As far as reducing his minutes, it's pretty simple math. If you aren't as good with him out there, the fewer minutes he's out there the better you will be.

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And this is just an absurdly obvious statement. Bad players are bad....no kidding less playing time is better for the team.

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It was meant to be. You said reducing his minutes wouldn't help. It obviously would, if we had someone better to take those minutes.

I have been making the same point since post 1, but you just come back with more of the same "Melo sucks". I'm not disagreeing with you man. Maybe read and consider before just firing back the same rhetoric.

M.C. Swag said:

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Harry Dunne said:

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Let me just put it this way, if we had Trevor Ariza out there playing 35 minutes a game and Carmelo taking over the 10-20 minutes Ryan Anderson was playing at the end of last season, I don't think we would be having these same conversations.

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I disagree. I've watched melo. It's not a minutes issue. His level up play is just that bad. I don't think he can provide 10 quality minutes on a consistent basis.

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You're not even reading!!!

If we had Ariza 35 minutes and Melo 10 minutes we would obviously be a lot better than we are now. How can you disagree with that? Regardless of whether he sucks or not, 10 minutes of Melo is better than 30.

Look at Ryan Anderson's numbers this year - league-worst across the board. Makes Melo look good. Look at the rest of our roster. The situation is so bad there are actually people on here calling for Gary Clark (and his 28% shooting) to get MORE than the 20 per he has been getting.

Anyway, I think we have clogged the lane enough with this argument but regardless of how many minutes Melo should get or not get, we need a big man that can give us 30+ quality minutes if we want to make it out of the 1st round.

dp

Harry Dunne said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Harry Dunne said:

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As far as reducing his minutes, it's pretty simple math. If you aren't as good with him out there, the fewer minutes he's out there the better you will be.

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And this is just an absurdly obvious statement. Bad players are bad....no kidding less playing time is better for the team.

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It was meant to be. You said reducing his minutes wouldn't help. It obviously would, if we had someone better to take those minutes.

I have been making the same point since post 1, but you just come back with more of the same "Melo sucks". I'm not disagreeing with you man. Maybe read and consider before just firing back the same rhetoric.

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lol I'm not just 'firing back.' You originally said 'my issue' was that my expectations for Melo were too high. I refuted that clearly. I expected he would be a minus player.

Then you said he has something to offer in a limited capacity. I clearly disagreed with that. I've maintained that I've watched a player who is incapable of providing a "+" in any limited capacity over the course of a season.

Now you are comparing his level of play to others in the league as some form of validation that 'hey, he could be worse.' Which I guess? Not sure how that validates his worthiness as an NBA roster-able player.

But ALL of that is circling around the focus of our debate about whether another NBA GM would view Melo in a way that would make him worthy of a draft pick. I have clearly disagreed with that.

Quote:

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If we had Ariza 35 minutes and Melo 10 minutes we would obviously be a lot better than we are now. How can you disagree with that? Regardless of whether he sucks or not, 10 minutes of Melo is better than 30.

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^And I understand what you're saying...i dont understand why you think that has any value to this discussion.

So I am reading, thank you.

I'm not totally disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that big men off the bench that have the skill set we need making the veterans minimum are usually not "+" players. Yes, he has something to offer relative to other guys we could have at his position at that salary.

I'm not comparing him to arbitrary guys around the league, I am comparing him to the guy from last year whose minutes he took, and the guys behind him on the bench. And comparing him to other guys at his position around the league would be the only way you could determine if he was worthy of a spot on an NBA roster. What other sort of validation should I be looking for? Your opinion?

Also never said another GM would trade a draft pick for him, I said the opposite. I said that trades with players playing for the vet minimum happen all the time and that no one is going to trade a draft pick for him, but that doesn't have anything to do with his contract.

You are either the most sublime troll I have seen in a while or you have a logic center of a 13-year-old girl.

I'm not in panic mode yet because the record is 4-6 and pretty much every team in the West is also struggling in some aspect but would definitely like to see some improved play over the next couple of weeks because last night was bad.

Harry Dunne said:

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You are either the most sublime troll I have seen in a while or you have a logic center of a 13-year-old girl.

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nice chat

Paul has a sore elbow apparently. Not sure how serious it is

Ags #1 said:

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Paul has a sore elbow apparently. Not sure how serious it is

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Explains his shooting

Butler to Philly

Our offer was so much better

Aggie1391 said:

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Our offer was so much better

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What did they give up?

I like the move on both sides. Houston offer of 4 1's as wild as it sounded just wasn't that appealing because it doesn't offer win now players like Thibs wanted and what was probably not going to be very attractive 1's

Aggie1391 said:

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Our offer was so much better

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Don't think so. VERY low chance that any of our 4 picks turns into a player as good as Saric one day.

Dario Saric, Robert Covington, and 2022 2nd rounder holy **** wow the wolves are the stupidest organization in basketball

I don't hate the move for the Wolves. They get two very capable starters including a 1st team all defense player in Covington (although he had a very bad postseason last year) but with the toxic state of things in the Minny locker room the Wolves had to move Butler out of there.

mAgnoliAg said:

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Dario Saric, Robert Covington, and 2022 2nd rounder holy **** wow the wolves are the stupidest organization in basketball

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They're definitely stupid, but I just don't think our trade was all that much better. All we could offer were old players and potentially mid-late 1st rounders.

Hickory High said:

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mAgnoliAg said:

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Dario Saric, Robert Covington, and 2022 2nd rounder holy **** wow the wolves are the stupidest organization in basketball

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They're definitely stupid, but I just don't think our trade was all that much better. All we could offer were old players and potentially mid-late 1st rounders.

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It's obvious they didn't care about picks just like Morey didn't care about picks

I don't mind this. Giving up 4 picks for a rental is a bad idea.

Who do we go after now? Who do you want to see us go after?

The more I look at this trade, the more I like it for Minnesota. Ship Butler to the Eastern conference, move below the luxury tax, get two very nice players that can contribute immediately.

Minnesota just went on a five game losing streak and the level of dysfunction in the locker room was probably too much for Thibs to take.

Agree. Win now vs build later. Tibbs ain't trying to wait around.

canadiaggie said:

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Who do we go after now? Who do you want to see us go after?

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Nicolas Batum

Blah. Rockets suck right now

We suck. We are a three point shooting team that can't make any threes. This team routinely falling below 100 points in today's NBA is totally unacceptable.

Houston Rockets in talks with Carmelo Anthony over his role on team

The fact that this is being reported tells me Caramelo is acting like a little *****. Guess he thought this team needed a Dwight Howard vibe.

Pretty sucky that no one outside of Harden, Paul, Capela and Gordon can score in double figures. Everyone outside of that group is playing really bad, and I mean really really bad.

Morey saying he will be playing as soon as illness is over. Bizzare