If we hadn't had the insane bad luck with injuries to start the year, and the team as it currently is played all year, we'd probably be in the 5th-7th spot I think. Actually a decent team now, but when you have such an atrocious start meh. I wouldn't mind making it in the 8th just for Dirk.

This is why I understand the whole "for Dirk thing" but don't understand it at all. It's just prolonging mediocrity. The ultimate goal for me would be to go through a short but complete (couple top 3 picks) rebuild and still retain Rick Carlisle.

If we make the playoffs the next two years we won't see a title contending team for a few more after instead of a few from now. This is based off how little draft data we have for the Mavs when having a top pick and how they've tended to mishandle free agency.

In my opinion, just enjoy watching Dirk and some pretty good basketball while you can. I usually agree that tanking is the way to go, and I actually liked Sam Hinkie's strategy with the 76ers. But we were never going to do that with Dirk, and even without Dirk, we are too good to get a top draft pick in the next few years. At this point, I'd rather just enjoy watching Dirk and some of the young guys compete.

Again, I think tanking is usually the way to go, but It's not like tanking for 2-3 years guarantees you any sort of title contender in the future. Sure, every once in a while you get a Tim Duncan or Lebron that propels you to a contender. But you also have teams who have been bad and tanking for forever. Just look at the Suns. They've been bad and stockpiling assets for forever and have nothing to show for it. It seems like every year they are just trading off good pieces because they realize they still aren't a contender and want to get more assets for their good players. A few years ago they traded Dragic bc they felt he was too old compared to their young assets. Now they are thinking of trading Bledsoe bc he may be too old compared to their young assets. It's a never ending cycle. There are plenty of other teams like them who have been bad for a long long time (kings, Pelicans, etc). And look at the lakers. They are probably in better shape than most teams that have been bad for years. They've had some top picks and are really young, but I don't think anyone thinks that any of their young guys will be good enough in the next 2-3 years to be a legit contender (they will depend on signing a big free agent to be a legit contender in a few years).

Bottom line, it takes so much luck to become a contender through the draft that I'm not going to be made if we get the 8th seed for the next few years.

You also gotta consider that the mavs organization doesn't think the draft is important. Out of all the teams, the Mavericks drafting strategy has been the worst in the NBA. You have Cuban who wants guys that are a sure thing, Donnie Nelson who wanted to draft pod the Russian ( horrible didn't even play in the NBA) with the fifth overall pick, and Carlisle who seems to favor playing vets ( this year he has no choice, but to play the kids).

Cuban is too stubborn to tank, he uses this "for dirk" argument to as an excuse to keep fighting as hard as he can because like I said this organization would rather draft a guy in Zimbabwe who isn't very good, stash him for 2 years, he disappears, while the Mavericks try to spend that money on free agency and year after year no good free agents pick Dallas.

So what is the solution - to both of you?

I don't have a solution. I agree that tanking at some point is probably the best move (although it certainly doesn't guarantee a contender or even a playoff squad). But I'm just going to enjoy the ride with Dirk for the next couple of years and am willing to put off the rebuild until after he is gone.

After Dirk retires, maybe our front office will be more willing to tank for a few years. With the changes to the rookie pay and the contract advantages to the teams that draft players, you almost have to draft superstars to be a contender now (and tanking would help your odds of drafting a superstar). Those rules have taken away the advantages for the big free agent destinations. And they have made it even harder for us to attract any free agents. So I do think we will need to throw away a couple years at some point, I'm just fine waiting until Dirk is gone to do that.

If you like to go by anything Cuban says, he was on Bob and Dan earlier today and when asked about the future, the only thing he seemed to commit to is that they're not going to trade for someone over the age of 30.

When asked about the whole "tanking" idea, he mentioned that (obviously) they're not trying to tank, but in his opinion there's only one really bad team out there (Brooklyn), and everyone else at the bottom is trying to win- and they're all 2-3 games within each other. In his words, "If there's a year to be bad, this is the one"

There really isn't a solution. You can't tell a guy like Yogi Ferrell not to play hard. The dude was pulled off his couch, signed a 10 day contract then dropped 30 on Portland in a win. You can't tell Dirk not to play hard. He has one more year left in the league at most. I thought the biggest impediment to tanking was DWill, for a while it seemed like they would only win games where he played well. Now that doesn't even seem to be a factor. There really are no answers. Barring injuries it doesn't appear that the Mavs will finish lower than 10th.

All I know is that this sucks. Scouts are saying this a great draft. There appears to be a few multi-time all stars available in the top 5 picks. The Mavs are tantalizingly close to acquiring one but instead appear destined to get blown out in the first round (again). At this point I just hope they get lucky. Maybe they will win the lottery from the 12th spot. Maybe the Mavs will land a Giannis type talent there. Maybe Curry and Durant will simultaneously sprain their ankles and miss the series with the Mavs.

I feel like we just had tanking forced on us with the crazy amoutn of injuries to start the year. Unfortunately, or fortunately, this is the first year that I can remember in a long time that the 8th seed has been sub 500 by this much. So we are somehow still in it.

I think this year the draft has a lot of immediate impact players in it, so hopefully we can snag one to go with Barnes and whoever else we keep. I think Yogi and Curry have proven to be players you want on the team, not sure you want to start them both due to lack of size.

Destroyed the magic. (up 30, low possibility of comeback)

I'm starting to wonder if the mavs are going to trade Bogut or not, I've been reading reports of Carlisle wanting to get him back in there before the all star break. If they could just get a second rounder for the guy, I think they should. He won't resign with us next year.

refs trying to decide this game, total horse**** last minute

young ass refs ive never really seen

PatAg said:

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refs trying to decide this game, total horse**** last minute

young ass refs ive never really seen

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I was just glad to see Marcus Smart have someone do a flop on him that got him a foul, to at least combat how crazy he made D-Will to get ejected.

Smart is the reigning King of Flops

When's that trade deadline? Would like to see Bogut gone for whatever they could get.

Our Playoff chances took a big hit with the boogie trade.

mavsfan4ever said:

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Our Playoff chances took a big hit with the boogie trade.

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Pelicans arent making the playoffs

Maybe not, but they definitely have a better shot than they did before the trade. Denver also got a little better by getting plumlee, so our chances are looking worse than they were before.

Yea we were going to be a long shot no matter what for sure.
Just gotta hope we keep playing basketball that is fun to watch.

Gotta move Bogut or D-Will (preferably both) even if you get a low return. Bogut has no place on the roster, and at this point, D-Will will only take important minutes from Yogi/Curry

Bogut for sure. Bogut publicly stated the first or second month of the season that he didn't want to be here anymore. Just get him out of here. Get something please.

If they don't move at least 1 ( especially Bogut) then they're idiots

grapespda2525 said:

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If they don't move at least 1 ( especially Bogut) then they're idiots

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Agreed. D Will worries me because of his veto however

Reported that we've traded Bogut, Anderson, and a 1st for Nerlens Noel

The pick is apparently protected top 18. Sounds like no protection for 2018, so it's basically the 2018 1st rounder.

Hmmm. I was hoping we'd just trade Bogut and D-Will for a bunch of picks, but I guess this is a good deal? What kind of conditional 1st round pick is it? I don't follow the Sixers at all. I like the move toward youth.

I like Anderson. He showed flashes. But the depth chart is just a little crowded for him. In fantasy football, I always try to make sure I ended up with the best player, trading quantity for quality. Did the Mavs do that here?

Sounds like a dumb trade.

So I just looked at his player page. What's with Noel's big drop in minutes and games started this season. Dammit, did we just get some magic beans?

According to Norm, Noel is an absolute defensive stopper and shot blocker. He is also young and they are already negotiating am extention..Philly was just logged jammed at center with Embid and Okafor.

I like getting a young big man that can rebound and defend. But they will have to pay him pretty soon. Lots of wild cards in this one. Noel has had some significant injuries in his past, not sure what Anderson develops into, and with this team teetering on the brink, that could end up being a really good 2018 draft pick. So there is the possibility of it turning into a complete clusterF, but locking up a young, strong defending, rebounding big man is a huge need that is difficult to fill.

Quote:

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txagman1998 11:39a, 11/7/16

Perhaps then we flip it around and use his expiring contract and our pick for a young player? Bogut and our 2017 #1 for Nerlens Noel?

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Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I still like this move, especially given that the draft pick protections essentially make it a 2018 pick. Now we just need to move D-Will for a 2017 or 2018 first round pick.

we can hope, but i don't see d-will bringing a 1

AggieSportsGuy said:

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Sounds like a dumb trade.

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Anderson for Noel? Next year's draft pick? This trade is no brainer imo.

I agree if you look at it in isolation. But with our roster situation and forecast for the next few years I don't understand the strategy here. Are we planning to add pieces around Noel through free agency? The guys we have now aren't championship-contender quality. We better hit our draft pick out of the park.