That's exactly it. They're not playing soccer, they're playing a system.akm91 said:This.Quote:
I feel like a lot of that is due to the "system" that Gregg orchestrates, it doesn't lend itself to quick play.
***** USA vs Uruguay Official Thread *****
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Last: 6 mo ago by fig96
fig96 said:
I feel like a lot of that is due to the "system" that Gregg orchestrates, it doesn't lend itself to quick play.
Watch Pulisic for Milan and he looks like one of the fastest guys on the field.
I'm generally not opposed to teams having a system or pattern of play. In fact, I think it's pretty foundational and needed. Flexibility around that structure and being able to adapt to game situations is what makes talented teams better than just being talented.
That said, we had no clear pattern of play this tournament. We were bad in possession and bad in transition. No idea if it was poor coaching or the team just not buying in or executing, but it was noticeably a step back from what we've shown in past competitions. Watching our guys look for passes that never materialized or hoofing the ball into space out of frustration was incredibly frustrating.
Agree, but I also think there are different scenarios for club vs country.jeffk said:I'm generally not opposed to teams having a system or pattern of play. In fact, I think it's pretty foundational and needed. Flexibility around that structure and being able to adapt to game situations is what makes talented teams better than just being talented.fig96 said:
I feel like a lot of that is due to the "system" that Gregg orchestrates, it doesn't lend itself to quick play.
Watch Pulisic for Milan and he looks like one of the fastest guys on the field.
That said, we had no clear pattern of play this tournament. We were bad in possession and bad in transition. No idea if it was poor coaching or the team just not buying in or executing, but it was noticeably a step back from what we've shown in past competitions. Watching our guys look for passes that never materialized or hoofing the ball into space out of frustration was incredibly frustrating.
On a club team you can build the roster you want to play a specific system, find the right pieces that complement what you want to do.
For a national team you've got a defined player pool, find the standout talents and build what you're doing to suit their strengths.
The "system" has to be flexible enough to account for the loss of a player either through injury or suspension.
I was pleasantly surprised how well Scally held up on the defensive end. It will definitely boost his confidence heading into the season.
I was pleasantly surprised how well Scally held up on the defensive end. It will definitely boost his confidence heading into the season.
I get what you're saying, but whether it's at the club or international level, coaches have systems of play they feel comfortable teaching and managing. Some are more rigid and others are more adaptable or flexible. And to his credit, Berhalter has adjusted his tactics over the years to fit the strengths of this roster. Look at how Pulisic has been deployed over the years. It hasn't always been effective, but there has been some flexibility.
What I was trying to emphasize is that our team currently looks very confused. They largely don't know where the ball should go or where they should go to receive it. There's a systemic breakdown that has occurred. I saw that McKennie completed like 70 passes in three games this tournament? That's stunning. So either this team has stopped listening to Berhalter, or he's stopped coaching them. Either way, that necessitates a big change. Either in the roster or with the coaching staff.
What I was trying to emphasize is that our team currently looks very confused. They largely don't know where the ball should go or where they should go to receive it. There's a systemic breakdown that has occurred. I saw that McKennie completed like 70 passes in three games this tournament? That's stunning. So either this team has stopped listening to Berhalter, or he's stopped coaching them. Either way, that necessitates a big change. Either in the roster or with the coaching staff.
jeffk said:
I get what you're saying, but whether it's at the club or international level, coaches have systems of play they feel comfortable teaching and managing. Some are more rigid and others are more adaptable or flexible. And to his credit, Berhalter has adjusted his tactics over the years to fit the strengths of this roster. Look at how Pulisic has been deployed over the years. It hasn't always been effective, but there has been some flexibility.
What I was trying to emphasize is that our team currently looks very confused. They largely don't know where the ball should go or where they should go to receive it. There's a systemic breakdown that has occurred. I saw that McKennie completed like 70 passes in three games this tournament? That's stunning. So either this team has stopped listening to Berhalter, or he's stopped coaching them. Either way, that necessitates a big change. Either in the roster or with the coaching staff.
Well said.
Yeah the regression since the WC is alarming. That's the biggest red flag for me.jeffk said:
I get what you're saying, but whether it's at the club or international level, coaches have systems of play they feel comfortable teaching and managing. Some are more rigid and others are more adaptable or flexible. And to his credit, Berhalter has adjusted his tactics over the years to fit the strengths of this roster. Look at how Pulisic has been deployed over the years. It hasn't always been effective, but there has been some flexibility.
What I was trying to emphasize is that our team currently looks very confused. They largely don't know where the ball should go or where they should go to receive it. There's a systemic breakdown that has occurred. I saw that McKennie completed like 70 passes in three games this tournament? That's stunning. So either this team has stopped listening to Berhalter, or he's stopped coaching them. Either way, that necessitates a big change. Either in the roster or with the coaching staff.
People can always find fault with roster selections, tactics, etc with any coach. But if you ask yourself if this team is on an upward or downward trajectory right now, the answer is down - and that means there needs to be a change.
Good points.
Would our attack be better with Reyna, LDT and Adams? Because Adams, McKennie, Musah and Cardosa all seem to have very similar profiles. Starting 2 out of that group really hampers the ability to link up our attack.
This last match was just a great big kickball match. There was no discernible strategy. It was just kick the ball and chase the ball. And kicking the ball was with no aim. Just kick it and pray. They were playing way faster than their skill level allowed.
Italy is in a bad way right now but every time they come out you know they have a strategy and they stick to it.
This team looked like they were checked out.
Italy is in a bad way right now but every time they come out you know they have a strategy and they stick to it.
This team looked like they were checked out.
how about Johnny at 6, LDLT at 8, Reyna at 10? We need more skillful touches in the midfield. We also need more speed in central defense and depth past Dest at RB and Jedi at LB.akm91 said:
Would our attack be better with Reyna, LDT and Adams? Because Adams, McKennie, Musah and Cardosa all seem to have very similar profiles. Starting 2 out of that group really hampers the ability to link up our attack.
England fans have been yelling for Southgate to go because he has no system and no one knows what to do. You have to have a system of some sort. Roll out the ball and run around doesn't work. England is entirely dependent on finding a moment or two of brilliance every 90 minutes
To the point above, we tried to go really fast and forgot about keeping some kind of system against Uruguay which clearly didn't work. It was so sloppy. Turnovers and crosses and headers to no one.
To the point above, we tried to go really fast and forgot about keeping some kind of system against Uruguay which clearly didn't work. It was so sloppy. Turnovers and crosses and headers to no one.
I love Adams, but I think he should only start when we're playing teams that are better. Or teams (like Mexico) that think they're better and intend to play positive.
We can't break down a team that parks the bus with a midfielder that doesn't meaningfully move the ball forward. He's a fantastic anchor, but offers too little else.
We can't break down a team that parks the bus with a midfielder that doesn't meaningfully move the ball forward. He's a fantastic anchor, but offers too little else.
deadbq03 said:
I love Adams, but I think he should only start when we're playing teams that are better. Or teams (like Mexico) that think they're better and intend to play positive.
We can't break down a team that parks the bus with a midfielder that doesn't meaningfully move the ball forward. He's a fantastic anchor, but offers too little else.
He's the one guy in the midfield that I would 100% keep. He's a 6 and a damn good one. Let him do that and find 2 guys to pair with him that run further upfield. Skinnier Weston can do it but we don't ever know when that one will show up. The fat one needs to go
I would agree that I'm not certain I would immediately replace Adams, but I think the problems are not just further upfield. YOu have to have the midfield to link to the attack further forward, and we are struggling with that.
Yeah I certainly didn't mean "drop him immediately."
And honestly, a lot of my complaint could really be more on Ggg than on Adams. I suspect that after the early experiment of using Adams at RB, Ggg may have just decided to use Adams exactly like Leipzig did. Which isn't necessarily just laziness on his part… it's perhaps even admirable to use a guy the way his club does for continuity - IF that style fits what the team needs.
At the time, Leipzig was 100% counter-attack. They were only recently promoted and didn't really have the personnel to push forward all the time. And Rangnick was king (even when he wasn't the on-field manager). In this system, Adams thrived. He even helped on attack because the attack was simply route-one passes over the top to speedy forwards and he could do that.
But as Leipzig became a mainstay in Bundesliga, teams started parking the bus and counter-attacking doesn't work. Rangnick himself recognized they needed to move away from that style which is why he tabbed Nagelsmann. So they changed, but Adams really didn't… and that's why he lost his starting job (except during Marsch's spell at Leipzig, which saw a return to counter-attack at all costs). Interestingly enough, at the tail-end of Adams time there, he did start playing up the field, making runs into the box, and looking for incisive passes. And this coincided with him getting more minutes off the bench. Then he went back to Marsch-ball at Leeds where he could just keep doing what he does. And now he's barely played for Bournemouth so it's hard to know if he'll be stretched to grow in his abilities to help the attack, or if he'll just continue putting out fires and passing sideways/backwards.
For that very brief spell at the end of his Leipzig tenure, I saw the Adams we need to have. But he's clearly more comfortable just being an anchor, and there's lots of teams that need that kind of player… but USMNT only needs that player on rare occasions when we play a top 20 team.
We need a coach who can push Adams to have more of a progressive role when it's needed during CONCACAF play or when playing the Pot 4 nasties of a tournament group. Adams isn't gonna ask to play that way - the coach is gonna have to push him. And until Adams grows that side of his game, I don't really think he's our best option when we play bad teams. I want a coach who's gonna make him do it, or have the balls to play someone else instead. These players are all too comfortable with Ggg and he coddles them.
Sorry for the TLDR, but as a Leipzig fan I'm someone who's perhaps watched and rooted for Adams at club level more than anyone here. I like him a lot and want to see him be better for us.
And honestly, a lot of my complaint could really be more on Ggg than on Adams. I suspect that after the early experiment of using Adams at RB, Ggg may have just decided to use Adams exactly like Leipzig did. Which isn't necessarily just laziness on his part… it's perhaps even admirable to use a guy the way his club does for continuity - IF that style fits what the team needs.
At the time, Leipzig was 100% counter-attack. They were only recently promoted and didn't really have the personnel to push forward all the time. And Rangnick was king (even when he wasn't the on-field manager). In this system, Adams thrived. He even helped on attack because the attack was simply route-one passes over the top to speedy forwards and he could do that.
But as Leipzig became a mainstay in Bundesliga, teams started parking the bus and counter-attacking doesn't work. Rangnick himself recognized they needed to move away from that style which is why he tabbed Nagelsmann. So they changed, but Adams really didn't… and that's why he lost his starting job (except during Marsch's spell at Leipzig, which saw a return to counter-attack at all costs). Interestingly enough, at the tail-end of Adams time there, he did start playing up the field, making runs into the box, and looking for incisive passes. And this coincided with him getting more minutes off the bench. Then he went back to Marsch-ball at Leeds where he could just keep doing what he does. And now he's barely played for Bournemouth so it's hard to know if he'll be stretched to grow in his abilities to help the attack, or if he'll just continue putting out fires and passing sideways/backwards.
For that very brief spell at the end of his Leipzig tenure, I saw the Adams we need to have. But he's clearly more comfortable just being an anchor, and there's lots of teams that need that kind of player… but USMNT only needs that player on rare occasions when we play a top 20 team.
We need a coach who can push Adams to have more of a progressive role when it's needed during CONCACAF play or when playing the Pot 4 nasties of a tournament group. Adams isn't gonna ask to play that way - the coach is gonna have to push him. And until Adams grows that side of his game, I don't really think he's our best option when we play bad teams. I want a coach who's gonna make him do it, or have the balls to play someone else instead. These players are all too comfortable with Ggg and he coddles them.
Sorry for the TLDR, but as a Leipzig fan I'm someone who's perhaps watched and rooted for Adams at club level more than anyone here. I like him a lot and want to see him be better for us.
Adams is gonna carry (and elevate) that Beckerman torch for the next three cycles.
Thanks for the informative post. Great read
My thoughts on Adamsnis that he is best when he's just simply a 6, though I didn't watch him at Leipzig during the time you mentioned. I'm a fan of your 6 staying back and getting more offensive firepower out of your LB or RB. I think it makes sense because the middle of the field is what is always protected first, so it's ok to have LB/RB bombing up the sidelines of you have your CBs and 6 hanging back.
I want Adams to win balls, mark players, then get the ball upfield. I don't want him worried about attacking because there are 7 players that can join the attack with your 6 and the CBs hanging back. The front line and the other 2 mids can worry about being creative. He just isn't that guy to me based on what I've personally watched.
Just one man's opinion
My thoughts on Adamsnis that he is best when he's just simply a 6, though I didn't watch him at Leipzig during the time you mentioned. I'm a fan of your 6 staying back and getting more offensive firepower out of your LB or RB. I think it makes sense because the middle of the field is what is always protected first, so it's ok to have LB/RB bombing up the sidelines of you have your CBs and 6 hanging back.
I want Adams to win balls, mark players, then get the ball upfield. I don't want him worried about attacking because there are 7 players that can join the attack with your 6 and the CBs hanging back. The front line and the other 2 mids can worry about being creative. He just isn't that guy to me based on what I've personally watched.
Just one man's opinion
I can't fault that opinion. That role certainly works if the system around it works. Sadly it hasn't been.
You raise a good point about the backs. I think that's partly why we looked particularly bad in attack this tourney… we didn't have Dest running wild all over the place. Adams is great at providing cover for Dest when he attacks. Scally was good in the back, but also needs to improve going forward, and that + Adams made our attack particularly impotent.
I appreciate the discussion. Happy 4th y'all! Glad we have the freedom to debate frivolous things in the internet.
You raise a good point about the backs. I think that's partly why we looked particularly bad in attack this tourney… we didn't have Dest running wild all over the place. Adams is great at providing cover for Dest when he attacks. Scally was good in the back, but also needs to improve going forward, and that + Adams made our attack particularly impotent.
I appreciate the discussion. Happy 4th y'all! Glad we have the freedom to debate frivolous things in the internet.
Lots of rumors floating around today...
And this was too good not to share:
Trying not to read too much into Klopp’s 4th of July Insta. 😳🩷🇺🇸 pic.twitter.com/bBf3LqrhcC
— Men in Blazers (@MenInBlazers) July 4, 2024
If I was in charge of US Soccer, I would fly to Spain and pay Jurgen Klopp a visit. I believe I could convince him to take the USMNT job.
— Tim Howard (@TimHowardGK) July 3, 2024
Gregg Berhalter will get the blame for this Copa America but much of the fault lies with the players.https://t.co/o7kEDkSgEW
And this was too good not to share:
I am prepared to let Jurgen Klopp become the sole owner of the state of Wyoming if he’d take the USMNT job.
— James @huskers.bsky.social (@roljamas) July 2, 2024
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