deadbq03 said:

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Link? I'm not seeing it on their YT page.

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My bad. Here's a link I found that has it. Probably worth a listen because it was a really good discussion:

https://picks-s6.cbssports.com/podcasts/call-it-what-you-want/

Rudyjax said:

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I love the players and see several of them play with the best in the world.
Every starter on this team today has top 5 league experience.

Is it the players or the system?

The U.S. completed 75.4% of their passes in the Copa America, ahead of only Ecuador and Peru.

Weston McKennie didn't attempt 70 passes in the tournament, and Christian Pulisic lost possession as many times as he attempted a pass tonight (25 each). pic.twitter.com/03tQVxvwwj

— Opta Analyst US (@OptaAnalystUS) July 2, 2024

I really hope it's the system because if not I'm just crushed.

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They looked as bad as they have in years and downright disgusting in front of goal

Mathguy64 said:

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Rudyjax said:

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Has anyone ever seen a call like that handball when a team is breaking outside of youth soccer ?

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It happens. It's happened to every referee. Normally you just reflexively blow it and look around and just say to yourself "well crap". This one was bad because he let the play happen for so long.

By that stage in the first half he was so messed up he probably had no idea what he was doing. He was just trying to survive the half.

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On the defensive half it's hard to play advantage like that. If he weren't so awful throughout the match, you'd give him the benefit of the doubt there on the slow whistle. But he wasn't even looking or moving with the ball as it had gone in the opposite direction. He was still running up to where the handling occurred, not at all looking at the US player going up field with possession and just blew his whistle.

Mathguy64 said:

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Rudyjax said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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Rudyjax said:

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Has anyone ever seen a call like that handball when a team is breaking outside of youth soccer ?

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It happens. It's happened to every referee. Normally you just reflexively blow it and look around and just say to yourself "well crap". This one was bad because he let the play happen for so long.

By that stage in the first half he was so messed up he probably had no idea what he was doing. He was just trying to survive the half.

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I've seen it in youth soccer. Never at an international tournament.

You ever let a quick start happen while showing a card? I bet you haven't.

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Yeah. No. I have not pulled a card while calling advantage while the offensive player is using their hand to set the ball down. That's a trifecta I never want to pull off.

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I've done the slow whistle on a foul on the defensive half and missed advantage. But never the yellow + quick restart + advantage....I was at the game and it was right in front of us and I was like "WTF just happened". I was texting some guys I referee with and they were on the opposite corner and his response was "that was an interesting sequence". He and I are both Mentors so the whole game presented some new video we can use for training.

The ref declined to shake Christian Pulisic’s hand after last night’s match pic.twitter.com/NpSRCLiRid

— Action Network (@ActionNetworkHQ) July 2, 2024

Agthatbuilds said:

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The ref declined to shake Christian Pulisic’s hand after last night’s match pic.twitter.com/NpSRCLiRid

— Action Network (@ActionNetworkHQ) July 2, 2024

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As we posted earlier, this is right after Pulisic told the referrees they needed to go celebrate with Panama Uruguay. Still classless though.

*Uruguay

aggiephoenix02 said:

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*Uruguay

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Yeah

The squad is talented in some regards. Needs to be held more accountable and play with more passion and effort. New Manager is needed, IMO.

Needs better GK that get more minutes professionally. If Matt Turner is it, he needs to come back to MLS where he will at least see a lot more action on the pitch. ..but maybe it's Horvath or - how's the young kid doing in Europe- Slonina- isn't he on Chelsea loan somewhere?

Needs midfielders that are quicker and better on the ball with turns, technical ability/first touch, and using multiple touches to get into space and connect passes. Watch other Copa squads and Euro squads. Watch top league clubs. While our MMA midfield works hard and tracks back and defends well, they don't really help enough in possession, breaking lines, switching the field to keep possession, and none of them are quick enough with the ball. They can sprint fast, but not quick enough. Only Pulisic and Reyna have the quickness in their technical skill and we usually play them on the wing instead of the midfield. Should LDLC and Johnny be getting more minutes heading to 2026? Where is the next batch of MFs coming from? It doesn't feel like we're developing technically skilled and quick enough midfielders and that's a problem.

Lastly, in the final third, we're not ambitious enough. Sometimes you just have to have it. Try it. Test the keeper from distance. We're always looking for an extra pass or extra touches in the face of the goal - trying to set up a perfect tap-in sitter. We aren't going to win when we only take 4 shots in 90+ minutes. Look at France in Euros yesterday. Took them 20 shots vs Belgium, not all of them great takes, but with that much action, some chaos, some rebound trash, something will eventually happen and it finally did with a deflected own-goal. That's what it takes vs good opponents and we don't even try long shots it seems. More action will open up opportunities for our strikers too, who get a bad rap because of their limited opportunities in this squad and system.

OregonAggie said:

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Rudyjax said:

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I love the players and see several of them play with the best in the world.
Every starter on this team today has top 5 league experience.

Is it the players or the system?

The U.S. completed 75.4% of their passes in the Copa America, ahead of only Ecuador and Peru.

Weston McKennie didn't attempt 70 passes in the tournament, and Christian Pulisic lost possession as many times as he attempted a pass tonight (25 each). pic.twitter.com/03tQVxvwwj

— Opta Analyst US (@OptaAnalystUS) July 2, 2024

I really hope it's the system because if not I'm just crushed.

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I blame the coaching/system more than anything. Pulisic took chances and lost the ball a lot…because he had to.

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Agreed.

When the plan is a mess, and you dont have options, you'll turn it over more. And when you're trying to do it all on your own, you'll turn it over more.

Thing is, we see these guys play overseas. They are good players. The fact it's a mess when they're together for the US, is a massive indictment to the coach/program.

Which guys are getting consistent, high-quality playing time overseas?
Which players are on an upward trajectory in their career and how many are trying to find 'a good fit' to fulfill their potential?

Not to excuse Ggg but as I posted toward the top of this thread, after the top handful of players, the talent pool hasn't met expectations

oh no said:

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I think USSF is in trouble. Not only do they need a fixer coach to work some miracles in less than two years, with limited international windows in that span, so our "golden generation" isn't wasted, but I'm afraid we're going to find out soon after that that the dissolution of the US soccer development academy after the sacking of Klinsmann might have had detrimental effects on the popularity of the sport to attract and retain top athletes and the development of American talent at the youth levels. We're about 5 years out from USSF getting rid of the DA and choosing to rely on mls academies for scouting and development. MLS academies are importing south and Central American talent as designated players even at youth levels and have zero allegiance to US soccer and little incentive for developing American youth to the top levels.

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I never stopped to think about that.

I was a huge proponent of Klinnsman's push to develop soccer academies. He was shocked at how poor our development system was, and was convinced nothing would change until we changed that about our program. It was a breath of fresh air hearing that, because the closest we ever had was ODP, and that was ridiculous in comparison. It wasn't just development, but retention of talented players (from going to other sports).

The fact we rely so heavily MLS academies is concerning. Like you said, they aren't concerned with US Soccer, but their own club (less opportunity for our own players). And how to you grab world class strikers who grow up in Nacogdoches, rather than Plano?

I'll also say this. Most other Youth Academies around the world teach the same system from the ground up. It's why Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Netherlands, Italy, France, etc...all have an identity and a style that's very identifiable. Iceland is a good/extreme example of a country implementing this in the recent past. But when you use the MLS, you'll never have cohesion because the system is set by the coach de jour.

tysker said:

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Which guys are getting consistent, high-quality playing time overseas?
Which players are on an upward trajectory in their career and how many are trying to find 'a good fit' to fulfill their potential?

Not to excuse Ggg but as I posted toward the top of this thread, after the top handful of players, the talent pool hasn't met expectations

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I guess to me, it's in comparison to US Soccer past. We'd get excited about a handful of overseas players. Now most of them are. Yet, we're commenting that teams from 20+ years ago were better than the team we have now.

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Only Pulisic and Reyna have the quickness in their technical skill and we usually play them on the wing instead of the midfield.

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Reyna's been playing more centrally but due to Weah's red card, Berhalter started him on the wing. He should've brought in another true winger on the roster instead of 4 forwards.

I think I'd have started Aaronson in place of Weah and kept Reyna centrally. He basically shifted 2 players "out of position" with his starting XI and forced a big change in the way we played.

I think we'll start to see more empirical evidence soon in the USYNTs on whether USSF getting rid of the DA about 5 years ago was a good idea. Other than exceptions like that Cavan Sullivan wonderkid, is the US developing talent and exporting it like they were 5-15 years ago? Is the sport growing or shrinking in popularity to the point that talented American athletes are sticking to it past the age of 14 at any higher rates?

akm91 said:

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Quote:

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Only Pulisic and Reyna have the quickness in their technical skill and we usually play them on the wing instead of the midfield.

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Reyna's been playing more centrally but due to Weah's red card, Berhalter started him on the wing. He should've brought in another true winger on the roster instead of 4 forwards.

I think I'd have started Aaronson in place of Weah and kept Reyna centrally. He basically shifted 2 players "out of position" with his starting XI and forced a big change in the way we played.

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I get that for last night re: Reyna's positioning, but my point is our entire player pool only has a couple of players capable with that level of quickness on the ball and technical skill. That's an issue.

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Is the sport growing or shrinking in popularity

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Felt like it was growing rapidly in the 2010's, but the recent poor performances against anyone not named Mexico over the last 4 years + insane ticket prices seems to have really hampered the growth with fans

AgGrad99 said:

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oh no said:

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I think USSF is in trouble. Not only do they need a fixer coach to work some miracles in less than two years, with limited international windows in that span, so our "golden generation" isn't wasted, but I'm afraid we're going to find out soon after that that the dissolution of the US soccer development academy after the sacking of Klinsmann might have had detrimental effects on the popularity of the sport to attract and retain top athletes and the development of American talent at the youth levels. We're about 5 years out from USSF getting rid of the DA and choosing to rely on mls academies for scouting and development. MLS academies are importing south and Central American talent as designated players even at youth levels and have zero allegiance to US soccer and little incentive for developing American youth to the top levels.

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I never stopped to think about that.

I was a huge proponent of Klinnsman's push to develop soccer academies. He was shocked at how poor our development system was, and was convinced nothing would change until we changed that about our program. It was a breath of fresh air hearing that, because the closest we ever had was ODP, and that was ridiculous in comparison. It wasn't just development, but retention of talented players (from going to other sports).

The fact we rely so heavily MLS academies is concerning. Like you said, they aren't concerned with US Soccer, but their own club (less opportunity for our own players). And how to you grab world class strikers who grow up in Nacogdoches, rather than Plano?

I'll also say this. Most other Youth Academies around the world teach the same system from the ground up. It's why Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Netherlands, Italy, France, etc...all have an identity and a style that's very identifiable. Iceland is a good/extreme example of a country implementing this in the recent past. But when you use the MLS, you'll never have cohesion because the system is set by the coach de jour.

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ODP still exists, but like the DA before it, MLS academies don't let their players play in it. Nor do they let them play at their high schools. ...and then there's now a boys ECNL competing with MLS next as the top tier of youth club soccer. There's just no coordination from the USSF to make sure top talent is developing in the proper manner and there isn't enough incentive out there to keep talented athletes invested in a soccer pro-track past the age of 14. MLS and ECNL boys pay a lot, lose their weekends all year, lose the high school experience, all to play high level competitive sport where there are hardly any scholarship opportunities - if you're not on a pro-track, you're simply doing it for fun and kids burn out. The sport isn't becoming a lifestyle like Europe or Brazil or Argentina and it's not growing in popularity, I'm afraid.

I think this is correct. And MLS clubs are in the business of developing MLS players, not USMNT players. The difficulty of US players signing professional contracts in the UK & Europe also hampers development for many of the higher-end guys. In some ways, you've already seen this on the women's side

Quote:

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I'll also say this. Most other Youth Academies around the world teach the same system from the ground up. It's why Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Netherlands, Italy, France, etc...all have an identity and a style that's very identifiable. Iceland is a good/extreme example of a country implementing this in the recent past. But when you use the MLS, you'll never have cohesion because the system is set by the coach de jour.

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Don't most of other countries have youth academies through the local clubs? I could be wrong but I don't think there's an England or German youth national academy. I keep reading about players that started at their boyhood clubs starting as youngster (8 or 9).

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There's just no coordination from the USSF to make sure top talent is developing in the proper manner and there isn't enough incentive out there to keep talented athletes invested in a soccer pro-track past the age of 14. MLS and ECNL boys pay a lot, lose their weekends all year, lose the high school experience, all to play high level competitive sport where there are hardly any scholarship opportunities - if you're not on a pro-track, you're simply doing it for fun and kids burn out.

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Seems like a situation where NIL could assist in bridging this gap.

This is whybwe need to enact rules like Europe that MLS can only sign kids over 18 unless they have a US passport.

tysker said:

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I think this is correct. And MLS clubs are in the business of developing MLS players, not USMNT players. The difficulty of US players signing professional contracts in the UK & Europe also hampers development for many of the higher-end guys. In some ways, you've already seen this on the women's side

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I think it's becoming easier for Americans to get work visas in Italy and the UK and it always has been for Germany, so we're seeing our players go overseas more easily than before, but MLS clubs are a conundrum to me.

They lose money. They all have celebrity partial owners because their financial advisors are looking for tax offsets for them.

The management obviously wants to win and they do so by signing designated players, usually from south america or central america on the cheap. They can only have so many designated players, so their academies are developing home grown talent, but case in point - the Houston Dynamo or FC Dallas or Austin FC academies will take the very best youth players they can find and guess what, many of them would be eligible for Mexico and would likely choose Mexico if they develop enough to get to that level. There's just no hands on or coordination from USSF.

US soccer can scout the MLS Next and ECNL showcases, invite who they think are the best American players from those to their USYNT camps, but it seems like there should more going on to not only attract and retain top tier athletes in the sport, but to develop them the way you want because the MLS clubs systems can vary widely.

Maybe something between a national program like DA used to dictate and the minimal /nonexistent program they have now is in order.

In particular, McKennie was out worked in duels. His 3 game totals

4/18 in ground duels
2/12 in aerial

— Brian Sciaretta (@BrianSciaretta) July 2, 2024

I get why folks love the Euro model of development, but we're going to need an Americanized version or hybrid model. The US is just too large and too diverse for us to be able to copypasta what works for Germany or Iceland or whomever is currently dominating Europe. Personally, I think leaving player development mostly up to MLS and USL is probably the best way forward. USSF can provide resources and (free?!?!) education for coaches, but controlling the youth systems across the nation is probably impossible imo. So it might always be messy with MLS Next, USL, ECNL, ODP, etc. but hopefully some of those will integrate and play nicer in the years to come. I do think getting the leagues to agree to rules that mandate keeping youth rosters full of mostly domestic players would be a great step forward (no idea what the quota should be though).

All that said, while things look grim on the senior team at the moment, I do think things are improving across the US as it pertains to access to good coaching and talent identification. More kids are on high level teams for free than ever before. Just need to keep making progress and those improvements will eventually pay dividends at the senior level. This current group is very talented, but I don't think they are our "golden generation." Those guys are probably 11-15 years old right now.

CONMEBOL has since released VAR audio and video: https://t.co/RlV2oii9jO

The process is remarkably imprecise — which is why benefit of doubt is given to the attacker, and Uruguay's goal was allowed to stand. (As explained in the above story)

— Henry Bushnell (@HenryBushnell) July 2, 2024

TRM said:

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CONMEBOL has since released VAR audio and video: https://t.co/RlV2oii9jO

The process is remarkably imprecise — which is why benefit of doubt is given to the attacker, and Uruguay's goal was allowed to stand. (As explained in the above story)

— Henry Bushnell (@HenryBushnell) July 2, 2024

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so hectic and stressful good gosh.

Here's my deal -- I'm not opposed to them erring on the side of goal when it's this close. My issue is with how inconsistent it's applied globally. We all know this is offside if we were playing in the Euros and not Conmebol. If it were Concacaf...depends on how corrupt that ref is, same with Conmebol. If it was universally applied as goal or offside globally, we can adapt to that. It strips out the controversy. Instead, they feed the controversy with inconsistent bs and then wonder why the football world is always pissed off.

Demosthenes81 said:

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Conmebol releases statement backing Conmebol referees decision in win by Conmebol team over Concacaf.

Conmebol: "This is my word... and, as such, is beyond contestation"

Shocking

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If you dont like my rules, you can go home.

I feel like a lot of that is due to the "system" that Gregg orchestrates, it doesn't lend itself to quick play.

Watch Pulisic for Milan and he looks like one of the fastest guys on the field.

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I feel like a lot of that is due to the "system" that Gregg orchestrates, it doesn't lend itself to quick play.

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This.