* WC Group E thread (Spain, Costa Rica, Germany, Japan) *

24,211 Views | 532 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by EastSideAg2002
YokelRidesAgain
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AG
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Mathguy64
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That GD and loss today is real trouble for Germany.
snowdog90
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Jarrin' Jay said:

Costa Rica is usually a competitive squad, this WC team barely qualified is not nearly as good as the last few Costa Rica teams in the WC.

Having said that, generally CONCACAF teams do OK at the WC. Regardless, it is more difficult for the top CONCACAF teams to qualify for the WC than many Euro teams, which not many people realize.

To qualify for the WC, here is who several Euro teams had to compete against in their groups:

England: Poland, Albania, Hungary, Andorra, San Marino
Germany: North Macedonia, Romania, Armenia, Iceland, Lichtenstein
Netherlands: Turkey, Norway, Montenegro, Latvia, Gibraltar
Denmark: Scotland, Israel, Austria, Faroe Islands, Moldova
France: Ukraine, Finland, Bosnia & Herz., Kazakhstan

Those are all an absolute and complete joke. Name me ONE of those groups that US or Mexico would not win and qualify out of. There aren't any. Looking at the reverse, sure those teams that won those groups are good, but the away games to all those spare teams/countries are MUCH easier than playing @ Mexico, @ Costa Rica, @ Panama, @ Honduras, @ Jamaica. If Germany had to play a CONCACAF qualifying campaign I don't think they would be in the WC at all, and I say that as a Germany fan.




Let's not get crazy. Germany would always qualify in CONCACAF, but I agree with some of your other points. As for CONCACAF's record in WC's, it's not great. I'm looking forward to seeing Canada today. It would be nice if they could at least look like the team that won CONCACAF,
La Bamba
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Germany has to beat Spain. Otherwise they might be in a world of trouble. And that might prove pretty hard to do.
akm91
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Both US and Mexico tied middle tier European teams; with the US really squandering chance to win the match. Didn't watch the Mexico match so not sure how close they were to scoring.

CR got destroyed by top tier Euro power. Let's see if Canada can hang with a top tier European team.
AgGrad99
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Dang. Nov 23rd will now be known as 'The day the Ticos died'.
La Bamba
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Incredible.
Mathguy64
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I'm kind of shocked that CR completed 165 passes. I would have guessed less than 100.
Jarrin' Jay
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This WC cycle, if the teams reversed qualifying campaigns, USA wins that Euro group, and Germany does NOT qualify for the WC at all. I am a huge Germany fan, live there many years, it's where I learned to play, with Germans not Americans.
Faustus
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Jarrin' Jay said:

This WC cycle, if the teams reversed qualifying campaigns, USA wins that Euro group, and Germany does NOT qualify for the WC at all. I am a huge Germany fan, live there many years, it's where I learned to play, with Germans not Americans.
You'd be better off saying they wouldn't have qualified out of the AFC given Saudi Arabia's victory over Argentina and Japan's victory over Germany.

Of course Germany would have qualified in both. I guess we'll see how Germany does against Costa Rica, since that's one of the teams that would have ostensibly denied Germany's bid out of our region (after beating New Zealand in a playoff for the final spot).
Faustus
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Jarrin' Jay
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I'm sure they will beat this CR team in Qatar. That is beside the point. My comments were to reflect the relative ease with which most Euro teams qualify for the WC. That group for Germany is a joke, and there are always 2 or 3 UEFA groups that are a joke expect for the power on top.

This Germany team may or may not have qualified out of CONCACAF, but 100% all of USA, Mexico, and this iteration of Canada win that UEFA group with ease, just as Germany did.
Faustus
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In reading articles about the upset this one caught my eye.
Fun team to root for.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/63735823

Quote:



The magnitude of their win over Germany could have seen them go off into the night in celebration but Japan's fans demonstrated that the best manners and habits are ingrained, no matter the situation.

Come full-time, the stands of sporting stadia are usually littered with used food trays and wrappers and empty drinks cups, left behind for someone else to clean up.

But not when the Samurai Blue are in town.

Their players, fresh from a 2-1 victory over the four-time champions in their World Cup opener, had barely left the pitch when the Japanese in the crowd pressed pause on the party to tidy up after themselves at Khalifa International Stadium in Qatar.
. . .
YokelRidesAgain
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Jarrin' Jay said:

To qualify for the WC, here is who several Euro teams had to compete against in their groups:

England: Poland, Albania, Hungary, Andorra, San Marino
Germany: North Macedonia, Romania, Armenia, Iceland, Lichtenstein
Netherlands: Turkey, Norway, Montenegro, Latvia, Gibraltar
Denmark: Scotland, Israel, Austria, Faroe Islands, Moldova
France: Ukraine, Finland, Bosnia & Herz., Kazakhstan

Those are all an absolute and complete joke. Name me ONE of those groups that US or Mexico would not win and qualify out of. There aren't any.
Huh? In UEFA, you have to win one those groups to qualify automatically. Otherwise, you're looking at a playoff against a very good international team to even get in.

And no, I don't believe that the US is massively better than 2nd place UEFA group finishers Portugal, Scotland, Sweden, Italy , Wales, Turkey, Poland, Macedonia, or Ukraine. Much less that the US team could beat England, Germany, France, etc.
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Faustus
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Jarrin' Jay said:

I'm sure they will beat this CR team in Qatar. That is beside the point. My comments were to reflect the relative ease with which most Euro teams qualify for the WC. That group for Germany is a joke, and there are always 2 or 3 UEFA groups that are a joke expect for the power on top.

This Germany team may or may not have qualified out of CONCACAF, but 100% all of USA, Mexico, and this iteration of Canada win that UEFA group with ease, just as Germany did.
Well Mexico tied Poland 0-0, who didn't win automatic qualifying out of England's group. That was one of the groups you listed as an absolute and complete joke.

We tied Wales, Costa Rica was blown up 7-0 by Spain, and Canada lost to Belgium 1-0.

Our region has scored one goal in four games against European teams, two of which were lower seeds. And you've already conceded that Germany is going to beat one of the teams that advanced from our region - notwithstanding your argument Germany wouldn't have qualified from our region.



YokelRidesAgain
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Moreover, the question is not whether the best 2 or 3 teams in CONCACAF could make it through European qualifying. It is whether the CONCACAF teams that are worse than those teams have any business in the WC. Even by the FIFA world rankings, there are 16 teams in UEFA that are better than Costa Rica, three of whom are watching the tournament on TV (including #6 Italy!).

Next time around, the likes of #64 Jamaica, #74 El Salvador and #80 Honduras will be battling for a place in the World Cup.

If you're going to expand the tournament, UEFA, Africa and Asia need more places in the World Cup. CONMEBOL should get a couple more. You do not need to give two more Central American or Caribbean teams a spot, or give what amounts to an automatic qualifying place to freaking New Zealand.
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snowdog90
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Jarrin' Jay said:

This WC cycle, if the teams reversed qualifying campaigns, USA wins that Euro group, and Germany does NOT qualify for the WC at all. I am a huge Germany fan, live there many years, it's where I learned to play, with Germans not Americans.


This is delusional. Germany at their absolute worst qualifies easily in CONCACAF. I don't know how you can even debate this.

They lost to a really good Japan team today, the same Japan team that destroyed USA very recently.
PatAg
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What about the years where all 3 concacaf teams advance to knockout rounds?
Its never as simple as "this region deserves more slots".
We'll never know how European countries would do in Concacaf qualifying. Obviously they are very talented, but they never play in those sorts of road environments either.

I think us and Mexico are probably punished the most by every region having Nations league now. We are rarely, if ever, getting to test ourselves against top European countries. Or at the very least, getting gametime against them.
Its why its so important we keep getting more and more players over to those top 5 leagues in Europe, to get those reps in. MLS has its place, and the quality is much higher than certain people would like to believe, but ideally we get our players over to Europe between 18-22 (earlier the better, assuming its somewhere where they can get playing time and develop).
As MLS, and its academies, continue to develop, our young players will continue to increase in value and will be more readily played at young ages at these top clubs in Europe. The only way I see MLS truly becoming Top 5 worthy, is finding some way to get representation in Champions league.
I think both MLS and Liga MX deserve a spot, maybe 2, but it would be very hard to do it logistically.
Faustus
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PatAg said:

What about the years where all 3 concacaf teams advance to knockout rounds?
Its never as simple as "this region deserves more slots".
We'll never know how European countries would do in Concacaf qualifying. Obviously they are very talented, but they never play in those sorts of road environments either.

I think us and Mexico are probably punished the most by every region having Nations league now. We are rarely, if ever, getting to test ourselves against top European countries. Or at the very least, getting gametime against them.
Its why its so important we keep getting more and more players over to those top 5 leagues in Europe, to get those reps in. MLS has its place, and the quality is much higher than certain people would like to believe, but ideally we get our players over to Europe between 18-22 (earlier the better, assuming its somewhere where they can get playing time and develop).
As MLS, and its academies, continue to develop, our young players will continue to increase in value and will be more readily played at young ages at these top clubs in Europe. The only way I see MLS truly becoming Top 5 worthy, is finding some way to get representation in Champions league.
I think both MLS and Liga MX deserve a spot, maybe 2, but it would be very hard to do it logistically.

It might even require relocation to Europe to qualify.
PatAg
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Faustus said:

PatAg said:

What about the years where all 3 concacaf teams advance to knockout rounds?
Its never as simple as "this region deserves more slots".
We'll never know how European countries would do in Concacaf qualifying. Obviously they are very talented, but they never play in those sorts of road environments either.

I think us and Mexico are probably punished the most by every region having Nations league now. We are rarely, if ever, getting to test ourselves against top European countries. Or at the very least, getting gametime against them.
Its why its so important we keep getting more and more players over to those top 5 leagues in Europe, to get those reps in. MLS has its place, and the quality is much higher than certain people would like to believe, but ideally we get our players over to Europe between 18-22 (earlier the better, assuming its somewhere where they can get playing time and develop).
As MLS, and its academies, continue to develop, our young players will continue to increase in value and will be more readily played at young ages at these top clubs in Europe. The only way I see MLS truly becoming Top 5 worthy, is finding some way to get representation in Champions league.
I think both MLS and Liga MX deserve a spot, maybe 2, but it would be very hard to do it logistically.

It might even require relocation to Europe to qualify.
No league has ever changed their rules in the interest of making more money.
Quality contribution
OregonAggie
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snowdog90 said:

Jarrin' Jay said:

This WC cycle, if the teams reversed qualifying campaigns, USA wins that Euro group, and Germany does NOT qualify for the WC at all. I am a huge Germany fan, live there many years, it's where I learned to play, with Germans not Americans.


This is delusional. Germany at their absolute worst qualifies easily in CONCACAF. I don't know how you can even debate this.

They lost to a really good Japan team today, the same Japan team that destroyed USA very recently.


No one really respects Japan yet they make it out of their group half the time and this particular team has a ton of European based players.

Germany at worst would be 3rd place in concacaf and that's if they played their worst every single game of the Hex.
Rudyjax
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Italy is a top team who are sitting out their 2'd straight WC.

It's not easy to come out of Europe.
YokelRidesAgain
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PatAg said:

What about the years where all 3 concacaf teams advance to knockout rounds?
Its never as simple as "this region deserves more slots".
The "years"? You mean 2014, which is literally the only time CONCACAF has had three teams make the knockout round.

And fine, that was cute. Any given matchday, or whatever.

But the fact remains, only four teams from CONCACAF have EVER made it out of the first round in a WC, and one of those was Cuba in 1938.

If you want to advocate for the US, Mexico, and the next tallest midget to always make the World Cup, fine. On the basis of the current results and world rankings, that's arguable.

The fact remains, however, that Costa Rica got into this WC by finishing fourth in the region; then beating New Zealand (who have a bye to whatever the hell stage of the competition FIFA lets them into, which will be the actual, freaking World Cup next go around), and then got pasted 7-nil.

And next time there will be two, and possibly three, CONCACAF teams that are WORSE than them in the competition.

If you wanted to have a fair selection process that allowed for a certain amount of local flavor, you would give each confederation a certain number of slots for group winners or whatever and then have a much larger playoff where "runners up" like Italy got to play "runners up" like Costa Rica. It's impossible because the domestic leagues would riot at all the extra match days, travel, etc.

But we all know what would happen.
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PatAg
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Its the World Cup, not the Euros
Dre_00
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YokelRidesAgain said:

PatAg said:

What about the years where all 3 concacaf teams advance to knockout rounds?
Its never as simple as "this region deserves more slots".
The "years"? You mean 2014, which is literally the only time CONCACAF has had three teams make the knockout round.

And fine, that was cute. Any given matchday, or whatever.

But the fact remains, only four teams from CONCACAF have EVER made it out of the first round in a WC, and one of those was Cuba in 1938.

If you want to advocate for the US, Mexico, and the next tallest midget to always make the World Cup, fine. On the basis of the current results and world rankings, that's arguable.

The fact remains, however, that Costa Rica got into this WC by finishing fourth in the region; then beating New Zealand (who have a bye to whatever the hell stage of the competition FIFA lets them into, which will be the actual, freaking World Cup next go around), and then got pasted 7-nil.

And next time there will be two, and possibly three, CONCACAF teams that are WORSE than them in the competition.

If you wanted to have a fair selection process that allowed for a certain amount of local flavor, you would give each confederation a certain number of slots for group winners or whatever and then have a much larger playoff where "runners up" like Italy got to play "runners up" like Costa Rica. It's impossible because the domestic leagues would riot at all the extra match days, travel, etc.

But we all know what would happen.

The reason why Italy isn't in the World Cup is because they lost to North Macedonia AT HOME 1-0. You really couldn't have picked a worse example to prove how the existing format isn't "fair". There is nothing unfair about Italy not making the World Cup. It feels like you are just bending over backwards to ensure that the "big" teams (which 9 out of 10 times means the European teams) make the World Cup.

And I'm assuming when you say "first round" you mean out of the first knockout round because many CONCACAF teams have made it out of the group stage. Or rather the CONCACAF teams often make it past the group stage. If you look back the last 20 years, there's quite a variety of teams who have made it to the QF stage. As mentioned above, watch the Euros if you want to watch a bunch of European teams compete in a soccer tournament.
YokelRidesAgain
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AG
Dre_00 said:


And I'm assuming when you say "first round" you mean out of the first knockout round because many CONCACAF teams have made it out of the group stage. Or rather the CONCACAF teams often make it past the group stage. If you look back the last 20 years, there's quite a variety of teams who have made it to the QF stage.
Mexico and the United States have advanced to the knockout rounds multiple times. Costa Rica has done so twice, and Cuba made it in 1938. No other CONCACAF side has advanced past the group stage.

The fall-off in quality past the tope two teams in CONCACAF has, historically, been massive. And when you get down to the 5th and 6th teams you are looking at non-comeptitive sides in top level international football.

Look at it this way: UEFA gets 16 slots for the next WC. The 16th team in the world rankings from Europe is #27, Ukraine.

CONMEBOL gets 6 slots for the next world cup. The 6th team in the world rankings from South America is #29 Chile.

CAF gets 9 slots for the next World Cup. The 9th team from Africa in the current world rankings is Ivory Coast, #48 (this is the only confederation where the number of slots allotted is pretty close to where it 'should' be if your goal is to pick the top 48 teams.)

And CONCACAF gets 6 slots, with the number 6 team in the rankings being #64, Jamaica.

Honestly, you sound like a Big XII fan complaining about the SEC getting too many teams in the football playoff. If your goal is 'equity', or something, or if you think it would be fun to watch Jamaica play France, good news, you're going to get your wish.
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YokelRidesAgain
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In addition to the prospect of numerous mismatches in the World Cup itself, the changes to the future format also take all of the fun out of World Cup qualifying (except in Europe and South America, where it will still take a quality side to make the World Cup).

There is no known universe where a Mexico or U.S. side, no matter how poorly managed, could contrive to be worse than 6th best in CONCACAF.
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Mike Elko
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Wow, you guys are really ruining this group.
Dre_00
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YokelRidesAgain said:

Dre_00 said:


And I'm assuming when you say "first round" you mean out of the first knockout round because many CONCACAF teams have made it out of the group stage. Or rather the CONCACAF teams often make it past the group stage. If you look back the last 20 years, there's quite a variety of teams who have made it to the QF stage.
Mexico and the United States have advanced to the knockout rounds multiple times. Costa Rica has done so twice, and Cuba made it in 1938. No other CONCACAF side has advanced past the group stage.

The fall-off in quality past the tope two teams in CONCACAF has, historically, been massive. And when you get down to the 5th and 6th teams you are looking at non-comeptitive sides in top level international football.

Look at it this way: UEFA gets 16 slots for the next WC. The 16th team in the world rankings from Europe is #27, Ukraine.

CONMEBOL gets 6 slots for the next world cup. The 6th team in the world rankings from South America is #29 Chile.

CAF gets 9 slots for the next World Cup. The 9th team from Africa in the current world rankings is Ivory Coast, #48 (this is the only confederation where the number of slots allotted is pretty close to where it 'should' be if your goal is to pick the top 48 teams.)

And CONCACAF gets 6 slots, with the number 6 team in the rankings being #64, Jamaica.

Honestly, you sound like a Big XII fan complaining about the SEC getting too many teams in the football playoff. If your goal is 'equity', or something, or if you think it would be fun to watch Jamaica play France, good news, you're going to get your wish.

So you're upset that CONCACAF is going to get 6+ spots in the next WC? You do realize that, more than likely, this is a one off because 3 CONCACAF teams are getting automatic berths, correct? It's highly unlikely that the same formula will be used for 2030. Do you think it's better that we just cancel the entirety of 2026 WC Qualification for CONCACAF to ensure that Austria makes it in 2026 rather than Trinidad and Tobago?

Because that's literally what you're complaining about. And comparing a 48 team tournament to a 4 team tournament is...something. This isn't a discussion about whether OU or 'bama should get the final spot in the tourney. Or France vs. Germany. You're literally complaining because of the atrocity that is Jamaica failing to qualify out of the group with a -7 GD vs Scotland failing to qualify out of the group with a GD of -4.

I mean...whatever floats your boat but I honestly don't understand the massive injustice that's being done.
Dre_00
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To be clear, I'm not condoning a 48 team tournament. I agree it's absurd. But don't understand the perceived injustice of the allocation for 2026 or that it's somehow completely unfair to Europe. But...whatever. I won't derail any further.
MookieBlaylock
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AG
what do this has to do with this bracket?
YokelRidesAgain
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MookieBlaylock said:

what do this has to do with this bracket?
Spain massacred a crappy CONCACAF team that got in the World Cup by finishing fourth in the group and then drawing a playoff against a New Zealand squad ranked #102 in the world.

Personally, I would rather watch the Azzuri in the WC that the winner of Costa Rica-New Zealand. YMMV.
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deadbq03
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I bet Italy makes it into an expanded field.

Adding more teams cuts both ways.
MookieBlaylock
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Ok but that is 4 years from now and nobody wants to watch Italy play
They are the epitome of boring soccer
stillmerk
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I'm not dismissing you, but I'm guessing the Euros is more to your liking than the WC.
 
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