About time to revive this thread as I like hearing some good stories. My son graduated from HS so I started doing HS games*

Two things happened to me over the last year that just bugged the hell out of me. Closest I've come to kicking out a HS coach in a game. And that's kind of a big deal here as they must go to a hearing with the state athletic association, attend a sportsmanship class and basically get to miss a few games while all this gets worked out.

First one was a girls varsity HS game. Game goes into overtime which is 2 x 10m halves, golden goal. I'm the center.


Game was pretty typical, a few fouls on each team, nothing egregious and no cards or anything. I don't hear either coach complaining about foul calls or lack thereof. Game ends in a 1-1 tie so we go to OT. About 5-min. into the 1st OT, corner kick for blue and white on defense. It's on blue teams' benches half (so white teams' bench is on other half of the midefield about 50-yards away). Blue player goes up to head ball and white player just undercuts the blue player and blue player rolls over backwards and lands hard on the ground. I'm like, well, that's a pretty bad foul so blow the whistle and award PK to blue. White coach is screaming something about "you can't call that there!!!". Blue scores, game is over. Coach comes on field as players are shaking hands and tells me that "you can't call that, there were 20 players in the box and no way you could see that…blah blah blah"…which is interesting b/c I always position myself on the back side of a corner so my AR can take the kicking side for any fouls. The foul was literally 15-feet way from me and I could see it plain as day. He keeps complaining and I say "we are done here, it was a foul"…he then insists "you just wanted to end the game and you made up a reason too"… so now he's questioning my integrity so I hold up a yellow and tell him to leave the field. The JV game was played after the varsity (bad weather was coming so they switched the games to get the V game in). We come out for the JV game 20-minutes later and he then starts to complain AGAIN to the other referees "what kind of official awards a foul in that situation" the JV center replies "a referee who saw a foul in the box!"…he replies " no, only a poor one, a very poor one!" ….I damned near told the JV center to hand him a red card and kick him out. I should have.

Second happened last week. Working as AR1 on the home teams bench side. Center told us before the game he calls a pretty tight game and he did. He was consistent though and called fouls on both teams. Home coaches were not happy about some of the softer calls, or the team he called it on, but he was consistent about it. During the second half the home team was on defense on my half of the field (same as the home teams' bench). Attacking team is throwing in from the sidelines right near the top of the box. I see a little pushing/shoving going on as the players is getting ready to throw the ball in so I'm trying to focus on the field as I can see that area right in front of me much better than the center. Also, neither team had come close to a foul throw at any time during the game so I was not too worried about that. Attaching player throws the ball in and the home team assistant coach starts yelling "he stepped on the field, he stepped on the field…put up your flag he stepped on the field"…keeps yelling at me as I'm trying to watch play. Ball goes out over the end line and goal kick for home team. He then continues to yell about the foul throw…I put my hand up and say "coach, I was watching the field and did not see it"…but that's not good enough, he continues to berate me and yell and complain about the bad throw. So I call the center over and tell him to give the coach a yellow card. Then he says to me "learn the rules!"…and I tell the center to give him TWO yellow cards. Center said he did not hear me say that so only books the single yellow. Assistant is just giving me the stair down like I'm challenging his man hood. A few minutes later, I'm moving up the sidelines the assistant is very close to the sidelines (he and the head coach did it all game and I was continually asking them to move which they did always did before I had to avoid them), so this time I say "step back coach" and, maybe I imagined it, but I think he sort of stepped towards me like he was going to let me run into him…I run bye him and I'm thinking…did he just do that. I mean, what is the guy thinking. Nothing bad happened from this supposed foul throw and when I asked the center about it after the game, he said never saw either team come close to a foul throw. So dumb.

* Side not, what is your state's process like for a new HS official. I just had to register with the state, take an open book online exam, pass with a 70 or above and voila, I'm a HS referee. No training at all. Explains a lot honestly.

I was at my sons soccer game this past weekend and recognized a ref from a local HS tourney while I was reffing a basketball tourney at same HS and we used the same dressing room. He pointed me to the guy in charge of officials in the area because I had expressed interest in doing soccer a bit. After telling me they were extremely shorthanded for the season I was blown off to even bother signing up and told my sport "you only run 94 feet and we go 110 yards"

and then the very next sentence he said to me was we dont have enough people and we will probably have to ref on wednesday and Saturdays for some districts to meet demand

Didnt ask my name didnt get info so I just was like OK. I mean if you cant train someone who has officiatied various sports for decades and done some soccer youth league and intramurals in the past to be an AR on a JV game to aliviate the shortage then it is sad. And this is after I talked to a "basketball guy" who also does a lot of soccer.

One of the issues of some officials is burnout and parent/ coach abuse. Burnout occurs when you have to ref all the time, splitting it up with various sports makes it much easier to handle.

Is there a chance that we've overstated the disrespect issue? It's my understanding that there are enough people for any sort of jobs out there.

Well we are currently about 40-50 officials short in basketball ths season. Iy is so bad across the state they came out with a UIL approved one man mechanic for BB and we are one meeting away from the schools being told either moved games to Wed/Sat and or we have no officials for subvarsity games.

I work a lot of T/F nights where it is JVB, Varsity Girls, Varsity Boys. Football will in two years be called semi Friday Night Lights as most schools will have to play 2-3 games per year on Thursday or Saturday

jeffk said:

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Lol. I must have missed this thread first time around. Loads of fun interactions in my 10+ years coaching HS and 5+ years reffing.

Funniest one I can think of off the top of my head happened in one of my early years coaching. I was the JV coach and I'd gotten my team to our game on a separate bus from the varsity and my HC. We'd kicked off and were playing a pretty tame match with a dual official set-up (which is typical for the level and our area). The officials were doing fine but the guy closest to our sideline was older and not the most mobile. He'd been taking his best guess on offside calls and called one of our guys off on a breakaway. He was facing in to the middle of the field where the ball was kicked and the player had been behind his back and was onside by at least a yard. I groaned but honestly didn't say anything audible... but my HC, who'd just walked up from the bus not more than 10 seconds earlier, interjects with an "Oh, come on! He was behind you and you're in no position to call that."

Ref turns to our sideline, asks me (because we'd met in pregame) who this loudmouth is and I say "He's my HC." Ref immediately gives him a straight red card and tells him to leave the grounds. He'd literally been present for less than a minute and now he's been thrown out for probably one of the tamest incidents of dissent I've ever heard. So that's how I got to coach my first varsity match later that evening. My and my HC still laugh about that over ten years later. It's the only red he's ever been given.

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Center Center is usually you stay in line with second defender and not last defender so it is harder in that respects or has that changed since my intramural days ??

Mathguy64 said:

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Here's one from a really high level game. I know several former National level refs. These guys were one grade below having a FIFA badge. At that level you get assessed at basically every match. And failing an assessment can mean losing matches and even losing your badge at that level going forward. The problem with assessments is they often don't count because the assessor doesn't think there was anything of consequence at assess. A match with no cards will almost never count. So basically it's like taking a test and the teacher says the grade doesn't count. And that sucks because you have to pay the assessor a fee whether you pass, fail or get no grade. And the fee can include their travel. So this guy is doing a really high level match and nothing is happening. No cards, no issues. And he knows the match is going to get no grade and he needs it graded. So at a dead ball he calls a substitute from the bench over to him, telling him he needs to tell him something. And the guy leaves the bench and comes on the field. And the ref pops him with a YC for entering the field of play without permission. And now the ref has enough to pass his assessment. And that is some cold blooded *****

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This is biggest issue with assessments. As a official for a different sport, having a game go smooth with no problems is better example than having problems being address. No problems means you have controlled the game, done preventive officiating, and handled problems before they blew up. That is a better tell of an official then issuing 10 yellows and a red card.

I think parents should be required to attend a 2-hour class on the "laws of the game" in person. No online crap, they have to actually sit in a classroom every couple of years.

Any traction with this idea? Would be VERY helpful. Make parents attend and issue a card showing completion, which is then required to sit on the sideline for a match. Siblings and grands are exempt, because they don't beotch as much.

RockW1997 said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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Here's one from a really high level game. I know several former National level refs. These guys were one grade below having a FIFA badge. At that level you get assessed at basically every match. And failing an assessment can mean losing matches and even losing your badge at that level going forward. The problem with assessments is they often don't count because the assessor doesn't think there was anything of consequence at assess. A match with no cards will almost never count. So basically it's like taking a test and the teacher says the grade doesn't count. And that sucks because you have to pay the assessor a fee whether you pass, fail or get no grade. And the fee can include their travel. So this guy is doing a really high level match and nothing is happening. No cards, no issues. And he knows the match is going to get no grade and he needs it graded. So at a dead ball he calls a substitute from the bench over to him, telling him he needs to tell him something. And the guy leaves the bench and comes on the field. And the ref pops him with a YC for entering the field of play without permission. And now the ref has enough to pass his assessment. And that is some cold blooded *****

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This is biggest issue with assessments. As a official for a different sport, having a game go smooth with no problems is better example than having problems being address. No problems means you have controlled the game, done preventive officiating, and handled problems before they blew up. That is a better tell of an official then issuing 10 yellows and a red card.

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Agree, if I had to pay for an assessment and then it didn't count b/c I didn't issue a yellow card, that's just dumb.

We have a local officials club for HS (it's completely voluntary) and a bunch of guys set it up to get access to game films, have clinics, and do some "you make the call" moments online with game film. They also pick games and will come evaluate a crew. They did one for me last spring and at the end of the game he pointed out all the good things I did, area's to improve and then talked a lot about a 15m span in the game where it started to get physical and he said "this is where you earned your money - so to speak", you called a foul here, you called advantage then brought it back when it didn't happen, then warned a player after a 2nd foul. There were no yellows and I didn't pay for the assessment (it's HS, there is no upgrading) but if I had payed for an assessment to get a USSF upgrade and the guy said, "I got nothing b/c you didn't issue and cautions" I'd be pissed.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Is there a chance that we've overstated the disrespect issue? It's my understanding that there are enough people for any sort of jobs out there.

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No.

Most referee's that start at a young age quit b/c of the out of control parents/coaches.

How would you like it if someone came to your office and berated you over every typo, or kept commenting on how many emails you haven't answered, or why aren't you ready for that 2PM meeting, or that lunch break was a little long, don't ya think..because that is the equivalent some games. And some are more like a 350 Dually trying to run you off the road b/c you didn't use your turn signal on that right turn 3-lights ago (like my throw in example above).

I think Covid made a lot of folks re-evaluate their priorities in life (not just official I mean a lot of things) and a bunch of officials that have been doing it for 20-years decided the hassle wasn't worth it anymore.

JV Soccer games around here start at 4:30, Varsity at 6:30. So I rush out of work at 4, try my best to get to the field by 4:20 so I can change in a locker room (if one is available, or in my car), captains, coin toss, pre-match with other refs (who are also barely there on time), do 2 x 40m halves, then do a varsity match after that. Run anywhere from 5-8 miles depending on level of play and get paid $140 (before Uncle Sam takes their FICA and Income Tax cut). Don't forget overtime (no extra pay for that time). Yes $35/hr is good pay, but it's not like I can make a living at this. I have plenty of other things to do with my time but I want to give back to the game I've enjoyed since I was 6 years old.

Now add in some of the ridiculous things we get to deal with, primarily clueless parents. I'll fully admit I used to be one at times until I started to referee. Then you realize just how hard it can be and you shut up.

Honestly HS parents are not as bad as the select/premier parents, especially at the younger ages. They still think little Bradyn or Kathryn can be a superstar despite the fact they can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

I had one from this season. College Men's game between a highly-ranked visiting team and typically a highly-ranked home team but not this season. It's still a "rivalry" because they meet in the NCAA tournament pretty often. Back & forth game tied 1-1 with about 2 minutes left. The game deserves a tie and we all know that, but the players are going balls to the wall still.

We have a sub. I don't stop the clock because it's tied. Some fan standing up yells out "Ref you just looked at the clock and didn't stop it. LEARN THE RULES!" I shouldn't respond but I do cuz I can clearly see who it is and say "Hey ref, who's winning?" He looks back at the scoreboard and sees it's tied then slumps back into his seat to hide.

30 seconds left...... Visiting team has a corner kick that pops out of the box to a midfielder, who dribbles in and takes a dive. I see it clearly, call the simulation foul and give a yellow card to the diving player. Then I give a yellow to a teammate who dissented. Home team takes the free kick and smashes it up the field so I'm playing catch up. it goes out for a throw-in. Announcer is counting down the last 10 seconds at this point. Home team has a long throw and he pumps it in, hits a head and goes into the net with 0 seconds left on the clock. Both benches come onto the field cuz the buzzer goes off and it hysteria. Home team is celebrating and visitors are protesting the horn sounded first. I have to use video review for the first time ever and we put 1.4 seconds back on the clock. Visitors don't want to kick off cuz coach is saying I need to caution every player that came onto the field after the goal because the game wasn't over yet. I'm not interested in having 30 yellow cards in the 90th minute so we figure it out without cards.

I've never had a "buzzer-beater" reffing soccer at any level like this. We can always add extra time, but not in college. Crazy game.

Many years ago, refereeing youth soccer. One match, boys were 11-12 or so as I recall. Another referee spoke with me before the game, said to keep an eye on one of the boys. Said he played very aggressively and rough. We get into it and 15 minutes or so in and the kid does a dangerous slide tackle. I give him a yellow and warn him to tone it down, the next foul like that will be a red. Not 5 minutes later he repeats, I give him a red and send him off. After the game, the other ref comes by and says "by the way, did I tell you that kid's mom is the president of the soccer league?" To her credit, she came around later and apologized for her son.

hsvag said:

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Many years ago, refereeing youth soccer. One match, boys were 11-12 or so as I recall. Another referee spoke with me before the game, said to keep an eye on one of the boys. Said he played very aggressively and rough. We get into it and 15 minutes or so in and the kid does a dangerous slide tackle. I give him a yellow and warn him to tone it down, the next foul like that will be a red. Not 5 minutes later he repeats, I give him a red and send him off. After the game, the other ref comes by and says "by the way, did I tell you that kid's mom is the president of the soccer league?" To her credit, she came around later and apologized for her son.

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I remember giving a kid a 2nd yellow (red) card one game and after the game his dad, who was the team admin for the particular players premier team, says to me, "thanks, he deserved that. He needs to learn to keep his head about him, especially when he already has one yellow card".

I ref'd the same team two weeks later and who is the captain...I say "did I give you a red card a few weeks ago, and he sheepishly replies "ya"...". I don't think I called a single foul on him that entire game.

jessexy said:

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We have a sub. I don't stop the clock because it's tied. Some fan standing up yells out "Ref you just looked at the clock and didn't stop it. LEARN THE RULES!" I shouldn't respond but I do cuz I can clearly see who it is and say "Hey ref, who's winning?" He looks back at the scoreboard and sees it's tied then slumps back into his seat to hide.

30 seconds left...... Visiting team has a corner kick that pops out of the box to a midfielder, who dribbles in and takes a dive. I see it clearly, call the simulation foul and give a yellow card to the diving player. Then I give a yellow to a teammate who dissented. Home team takes the free kick and smashes it up the field so I'm playing catch up. it goes out for a throw-in. Announcer is counting down the last 10 seconds at this point. Home team has a long throw and he pumps it in, hits a head and goes into the net with 0 seconds left on the clock. Both benches come onto the field cuz the buzzer goes off and it hysteria. Home team is celebrating and visitors are protesting the horn sounded first. I have to use video review for the first time ever and we put 1.4 seconds back on the clock. Visitors don't want to kick off cuz coach is saying I need to caution every player that came onto the field after the goal because the game wasn't over yet. I'm not interested in having 30 yellow cards in the 90th minute so we figure it out without cards.

I've never had a "buzzer-beater" reffing soccer at any level like this. We can always add extra time, but not in college. Crazy game.

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I really hate the stop the clock thing in HS and College. I mean, I get why they do it (because to many coaches felt cheated by stoppage time - which is PART OF THE GAME everywhere else in the world).

My son's HS team won a game that would have been a tie b/c the clock buzzer went off just before a ball rolled into the goal. The ref. explained to the other team/coaches "sorry, when the buzzer goes off, game is over". I mean, he was right and the other team coaches knew the rule and really did not complain at all, but to me it's just crap. Esp. b/c JV games the clock just runs and never stops. Had an injury one JV game that took 15m to get the player off the field (no foul, player just came down funny, landed on the ball and her head whipped to the turf). Both teams got screwed out of 15m of play.

https://vimeo.com/763511733/d7c55355ec?mc_cid=4861e3cb0a&mc_eid=9855520228

the "world famous" Dallas Cup is struggling for referees this year. I haven't heard any official numbers but word is 270 referees were accepted into the tournament but only 200 actually showed up. Some of the international academy groups aren't as strong as they have been in the past and there were some huge mistakes in the Super Group game yesterday between Real Madrid and FC Dallas. I've heard "ref quit at halftime" and "he gave 3 yellow cards to the same player"

Here's a recap of that game RECAP

In a playoff game, the center ref calls an indirect kick on illegal pass back. We yelled it clearly wasn't intentional. The CR comes over to give us a warning, which I respect but we ask him about the call. He says that it was intentional, otherwise the goalie wouldn't have hesitated. This was our back up goalie playing her first meaningful minutes, which he would know. But after telling him that he says "I don't know if it was intentional or not." And then reminds us about the warning.

Why are coaches supposed to be quiet when he clearly admitted to making a mistake?

Lots of refs are good but can't admit when they make mistakes and fix the error. It's all who and we're supposed to walk on egg shells because they're fragile.

That being said. The two ladies below are some of the best in Houston.

Took a second tonight to appreciate the Referree’s that allow us to play the game. And we are super fond of those two who always go above and beyond. Thank you @TASOHoustonFB from all of us in @sbisdathletics 👏🏻👏🏻 pic.twitter.com/kwGNA81deW

— Memorial Girls Soccer (@MemGirlsSoccer) March 11, 2023

Nice of y'all to make that gesture.

But you're still getting duals for playoff matches?

jeffk said:

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Nice of y'all to make that gesture.

But you're still getting duals for playoff matches?

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Not my school and I think this was before playoffs. Every game I've been to was a full compliment of refs.

#LigaMx 🇲🇽

¡No se puede creer! ¡Inaudito!

El árbitro Fernando Hernández le
dió un rodillazo al futbolista Lucas
Romero de @clubleonfc. pic.twitter.com/b7RYdDGKgV

— Xavi (@XaviSol_) April 2, 2023

Would love to hear this ref's side of the story

12 games!

Referee Fernando Hernandez gets a 12 game ban for kneeing a Club Leon player in the junk during a Liga MX game. I’m surprised this hasn’t happened sooner with the amount of ref swarming you get. Not saying what he did was right, but he was driven to this pic.twitter.com/wiJDCKHBvo

— Brian Sciaretta (@BrianSciaretta) April 6, 2023

I saw this earlier. What the players get away with in LigaMX by way of swarming and grabbing referees is atrocious.

Having said that I was betting he committed career suicide. You just cannot knee a player in the groin. Pull your red and start sending people off. Just walk to the tunnel and abandon it (ok not realistic in a pro match but it's better than what he did). He's got to stay above this.

Middle school soccer

Striker taking on LB and CB. Strong touch megs CB, CB touches leg if striker to where shin guard comes out of strikers sock (he cut sock to where it is a sleeve) next touch is right bottom corner beating the goalie.

No goal...play dead for safety...game ends shortly after call in tie.

New grassroots ref checking in. I'm looking for anybody that has feedback on uniform options other than Official Sports.
Two of my kids recently got certified before me and I got them the "economy" starter kits. I don't like the v neck shirt, and the shorts are cheap.

I'm looking at the "pro" kit that has shirt w/ zipper and upgraded shorts, but wondering if other options (like Amazon) are any good?

Longtime rec coach here who has a very loud voice. I read a book by an umpire years ago that said that as long as a manager would argue about the call, he'd stay in the game. As soon as he makes it personal, he's gone. I always tried to follow that advice.

Had many interactions with youth refs and told them often that I knew they would get 100 calls right during the game. However, if I questioned 1 or 2, just have a civil discussion with me.

Only red cards I ever got were from the same kid. We realized he was lopping 2-3 minutes off per quarter in our kids matches. One time he told his AR that he had started the clock when zero kids were on the field after the half. When I questioned him on it, he replied, "I'm the ref, I can do what I want."

Needless to say, that didn't go over well with me. We had 2 to 3 more games together before the league (who realized how bad he was) no longer had him ref my games.

Years ago, reffing AYSO in California, U-15 if I remember correctly. Tossed a kid for 2nd dirty/dangerous challenge after a previous yellow and warning. After the game another referee came over and said, "did know that kid is the league president's kid?"

DaveHimself said:

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New grassroots ref checking in. I'm looking for anybody that has feedback on uniform options other than Official Sports.
Two of my kids recently got certified before me and I got them the "economy" starter kits. I don't like the v neck shirt, and the shorts are cheap.

I'm looking at the "pro" kit that has shirt w/ zipper and upgraded shorts, but wondering if other options (like Amazon) are any good?

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IMHO, pay the money and get the real deal "Pro" OSI kits. They look better and they last longer than any other option. Also, you're going out doing games in sets of 3 or 4 at a time, probably making somewhere around $60-100 bucks. If you set aside some of that cash to purchase a shirt each time, you'd be set with each uniform in about 2 months. Easy enough.

If you want to save some cash, only buy the green and yellow as a Grassroots. There's no need to get the black shirt. I'd guess that a lot of teams in your area use either red or blue in their uniforms, so you'll avoid those colors in games. I know a lot of refs that only buy the long-sleeved version in each color to save some money as well.

Thanks for feedback, this is what I was leaning towards since I plan to do this a long time. Got my kids the cheap stuff in case they don't stick with it

The stuff you get off Amazon is about equivalent to the cheaper sets from the ref catalog. And yeah, I always went long sleeved only. Kept the sun off me a bit.

The questionable foul call is one thing. An official initiating contact with a player during an @NCAADII tournament game is never acceptable. Tony Obas has too much experience for this bush league move. @LoneStarConf #D2msoc pic.twitter.com/VJTTvoAY3x

— Cory Hogue (@CoryHogueSports) December 2, 2023

I agree that parents should take some sort of class, or referee a scrimmage themselves. I was refereeing an U14 or U15 girls HYSA playoff game. When one team was throwing in the ball, a leather lunged parent from the other team yelled, "ILLEGAL THROW IN REF!" This continued for the first 10 minutes of the first half when I called my linesman over and asked him if he identified the perpetrator. He said no, but I told him I was about to have to address this guy. Well, shortly thereafter the opposition girl tried to throw in the ball. The guy yelled, "WATCH HER...THEY'RE ALL THROWING IT IN ILLEGALLY!" She muffed this one. I told her to go back and she'd get another chance. I approached the side line and said, "Folks, cheer your kids on, but I'm the traffic cop for the game. Pleas don't.....". He interrupted my statement and said loudly, "If you'd call throw in right, I wouldn't say anything." Truth is there was no little or no difference how either team was throwing in the ball. I turned to him and said loudly back, "I'm glad you identified yourself because you were the one I wanted to find. This is your one chance to cease and desist this...."'. Again he cut me off and loudly stated, "If you'd call it right I wouldn't...". I cut him off and said, "You're oughtta here. Walk toward that pavilion (that was ~200 yards away)." He initially refused to leave, and 1) dispatched both teams to the their sidelines, and 2) told my linesman to get a tournament official. I didn't restart the game until he was 1/2 way to the pavilion. Technically, the throw ins were not "perfect", but they were good enough, IMO, to restart the game. The object of the throw in is to get the game going again. Refs generally have less problem when the ball is moving.