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Hello guys, every coach we have had in the lasty 50 years was not an Ag with exception of Gene Stallings.

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Great point.

I appreciate your passion. We just see different things and I'm generally optimistic.

Guess this year will tell the tale.

I hope you are right.

Actually 12-0 vs the dirt monkeys hurt as much as 77-0 vs blow u.

"only one thing is important"

OPAG,

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Simply put the NFL has varified Miller's claims and there is no real objective arguement that anyone can put up to refute it.

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Miller has stated many times that we have had zero draft picks for the last 5 years which is 100% WRONG. we have had players drafted and more players than some of the schools fran has lost to in that same time frame. Yet you continue to defend his statements as being factually correct and going so far to make it part of your own argement.

Also everytime you have responded to one of my posts about him slamming the players I don't think you have ever addressed what he said in an honest matter. His post as he worded it was not in any way a positive statement about them as a whole. Let me try a similar statement and see what you think.

"The players at Texas A&M were not good enough to beat Oklohma State in 2005."

Pretty stupid statement right.

Why well we beat OSU in 2005 and I just said they were not good enough to win that game. So how that does not qualify as a slam should not be beyond anyone. At worst it would hurt a person credability by making a statement that is factually incorrect. The quote I used of miller is wrong in two ways as he said our players were not good enough to beat Baylor, ISU, and TTU and he gave a time frame. We beat all of those teams in the time frame he listed.

After reading most of your counter arguments it seems you can gloss over his statement becuase he used a generalazation for a group. If thats the case let me say I think our coaching staff is not up to speed with the rest of the big 12. Fran must think so as well considering people have been let go.

Well, we have had one first day draft pick. Terrence Murphy since 02'. Where we had Ty Warren, Sammy Davis in the 1st, Kiel and Johnson in the 2nd. We lost seven starters off that defense and our best Fish DT.

The cubbard was bare. In 03 we at least had, Hangartner, Whitely and Taylor on the OL. But losing HT hurt us. We had no depth at OL or DL and did not replace those seven starters with players of equal caliber. Simply put, we were really behing the 8ball. We have still been behind the 8 ball.

As far as replacing staff. I think your assesment can be accurate but I don't see it the same way. No one question Torbush's ability or the other Defensive coaches that left. However it is sure hard to argue for them after the last years defensive overall defensive performance. It seemed apparent that for whatever reason Torbush and company were not getting the most out of the players they had. There could be a number of factors involved with that but bottom line is that the defense had great breakdowns. I still think that our overall talent level was pretty young and we were really defecient in depth, which I think played a major role in special teams defeiciencies.

Still I think the main reason the change was main, besides the underperformance is simply due to a change in defensive thinking. I beleive Fran sees the Big 12 becoming more and more spread offense, passing based offenses. This has been a gradual change. The Big XII used to be more power football, I based. With Tech, OU, tu, Nu, KSU, CU, KU all moving more and more to spread offenses that seek to spread your defense and exploit gaps and weak links, Fran thought it best to go with a faster defense that can match up with these type of offenses. This is not Torbush's forte. It is Darnell's. Darnell was HC in the MAC. Where Toledo, and Marshall and number of high powered spread passing offenses run the roost.

So Fran made the change for three reasons.

1. The defense underperformed last year.

2. The evolving of the spread offense in the Big XII

3. We needed some high energy possitive personalities to help stoke the fire and renew the confidence on the defensive side of the ball.

Thus enter Gary Darnell, Clay and Malone.

So to me it wasn't that Torbush, Thurmond and Smith were bad. It was just time for a change and a change that would hopefully better fit the need of the moment.

it's kind of like Torbush is great pro type QB. Problem is our system doesn't need a great Pro type QB. We haven't evn tried to recruit Mallet a top flight drop back passer. It's just not a good match either for him or for us.

That's kind of what happened here with T Bush. However to call T Bush an inferior coach is just off. No one questions the mans ability. Just some times it's not a good mix. Is it possible that Fran is not a good mix? Yea, but that is still on going and the jury is still out. And to hang the man or our program while the jury is still out is what I strongly disagree with.

As far as Miller, I don't see him bashing anyone personally. I am not saying that I agree with every thing he says. But the point is that his level of 'player bashing' or stupid comments are not any worse than a large number of the Fran bashers who make stupid and unsupported comments about him and about other Ags who do not wish to hang the man in effigy or call him incompetent.

"only one thing is important!"

OPAG

noone has really taken the time or patience to refute the bashers with cool reflection and the experience that comes with coaching

Keep it up

I look forward to joining the M&W forum soon. I can't exactly justify the 100+ dollars right now while I am on loans, and what little money I do make right now supports the College Station bar & resturant scene.


Question for OPAG (sorry to hijack).
I kinda find myself in the middle of doom and gloom potbangers and the sunshine pumpers.

There are things I can't stop raving about on this team: McGee, Jorvorskie Lane, Joey Thomas & Martellus Bennett, The OL, Chad Schroeder, Pierre Brown, Devin Gregg, Alton Dixon, Justin Warren, Jordan Peterson, and Danny Gorrer.

Then there are things that irk me to no end, and the one thing that disturbs me the most is our Defensive Line.

What's your take on our DL?

This group used to be ahead of our OL... Now there is no question the OL has progressed, but the DL has taken inches forward at best.

If you noticed the difference between the ou & tu games on defense vs the previous games, the biggest difference was the DL disruption & play making. They were able to make plays and disrupt the OU and tu OL, but not the Baylor, Iowa St, Clemson, Colorado, & Tech OL?

It doesn't add up to me? You can sack and cause Rose Bowl MVP Vince Young to fumble, but not Bret Meyer, Charlie Whitehurst, the statue Joel Klatt, or Shawn Bell?

What is up with this group of guys? I've never seen a more lazier group of very talented players. It's harsh, but it really bothers me to see players who should be top tier Big 12/NFL talents piss away their careers.

I look at a guy like Jason Jack who came into A&M at 6-3 250 running a 4.7 with legit NFL potential who is now in the 280 range, running a 4.9 on a great day, and is destined to be a tweener/situational DT. Before anyone blames our weight training program, keep in mind weight training doesn't put a fat beer belly on players. Lack of discipline off the field does.

William Morrisey came in at 6-1 285 running in the 4.9s and is now currently sitting at near 360, and probably couldn't identify his feet in a lineup. This guy will come in, knock offensive linemen on their butts, create havoc and distruption for a play, and then take the next handful off. Either he is taking the play off or he just doesn't have the motor.

Chris Smith is there... well kinda. He is definitely taking up a roster spot.

Obizor is good, sometimes, when he feels like it.

I can't fault Red Bryant, the guy works his butt off, demands double teams, but his DL teammates hardly take advantage of the great situation he provides them by disrupting the OL.

Marques Thornton & Bryce Reed aren't playing because the coaches are dumb, they are playing because they give top effort and actually have a motor.

I just don't get this group, and I would be curious to read your take.

[This message has been edited by Thingy (edited 5/21/2006 12:19p).]

I'd like to hear the answer to that too Thingy. Good post.

Great stuff OPAG-keep it up but some on here will never wake up.

ttt - for OPAG

notice how everybody is reading it but not posting b/c they know it's true

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keep in mind weight training doesn't put a fat beer belly on players. Lack of discipline off the field does.

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just don't blame this no coaching.

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just don't blame this no coaching.

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I am definitely not blaming it on Coaching. Coaches can only do so much for these kids... they can't wire their mouths shut or put them on 24 hour survielence.

You just hope guys like Morrisey, Jack, etc wake the hell up realize what they are throwing away here.

You can either be a 2nd round pick by the New York Giants sitting in millions or you can be a Toronto Argonaut signed to a 1 year $10,000 contract.

At this point, we have a few future Argonauts on our roster who will be wondering "What if" if they don't get their **** together and get their minds right.

OPAG,

Very insightful thoughts. Thank you.

I left the football field long ago, and my knowledge is weak at best. But I know a little about heart and desire. And, I also know about being an Aggie and the spirit inherent in that. It's born out of military lore where "you never leave anyone behind" and "you love your teammate more than yourself." In short, it's about respect, and you, sir, show that respectful spirit in spades. Thank you.

I've read all your responses on this post, and I am a smarter person for it. Perhaps the best comment, though, is the bolded portion below:

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So a grand total (AND I AM BEING GENEROUS) of 7 from the combined classes of 00 and 01 that can be realisticly sniff the label of 'impact players'. Any way you cut that it is really really low. Miller is right. It is not bashing, it is factual and objective. Now SUBJECTIVELY, I just LOVE THESE GUYS. They made a choice to come to A&M, they stayed the course through all the changes. They are to the most part quality Aggies and quality people, they are not however, upper echelon Big 12/NFL caliber players that is clear and from a football perspective inargurable.

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No, these players won't go down in A&M's history as the best of the best, but you extended a level of respect to them that is admirable. You didn't "leave them behind."

Well done, OPAG. Well done, indeed.

Gig'em, Aggies!
Beat the HELL Outta Everyone in 2006!!

Great post OPAG!!!!!!!!!!!

OPAG, I always enjoy your posts. Keep 'em comin'...

Nice posts OPAG! Certain people still refuse to believe the cupboard was more than a little low.

ttt - for OPAG

Oops, wrong thread. Trying to quote, not bump. Have mercy!

worst bump ever

So OPAG was Fran?

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So OPAG was Fran?

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So you remember a quote from 8 years ago ?
BAN HIM

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So you remember a quote from 8 years ago ?
BAN HIM

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I agree, who is so pathetic that they had to track down a 8yr old quote just to try to make a point?!?!

The owners and mods used to interact with zoo posters.

Premium used to cost lese than $4

People used to write multiple paragraph posts, and others read them???

Oh mods still interact, it's just they interact by disinfecting the undesirable elements.

Well, some of them, anyway.