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Cotton79
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OK, third and last time to chime-in again, this time to address WestTxAg's question on whether Permian will regain its football prominence (and my apologies in advance for being long-winded!):

I, too, long for the day when Permian can regain its status in the football world, but I doubt it. Most posters here recall the 1988 game and the surrounding timeframe, which suggests they are younger than I am (with a few exceptions, of course!) But the real answer (I believe) lies in a much more macro view. I really do think that "the stars came into alignment" in west Texas over a period of 5-6 decades starting in the 1930s and ending in the 1990s, the likes of which will never be seen again. I haven't lived in Odessa for 30 years, but I still visit relatives there quite often. My observation is that the town hasn't changed much, but the rest of the world has.

To wit: Odessa's prominence began in the 1930s due to oil (duh!). In turn, the oil business did wonders for the city (and all of west Texas, for that matter), a trickle-down effect if you will via tax revenues, gifts of land and facilities, etc. This went on for decades. My uncle was a principal and school administrator in Ector ISD from the 1960s to 1990s, and he recruited teachers as far away as Minnesota to come to Odessa. Why?... because the oil-rich tax base allowed the school district to pay handsome teacher salaries and to provide state-of-the-art equipment for schools. Even if the landscape was butt ugly, these were nice perks to bring in talented folks to teach the next generation of west Texans. I know for a fact that I and many other students received an excellent education there (well, at least those who chose to apply themselves got the education!).

In turn, that excellent education system (and the “riches beyond avarice” that the oil “bidness” promised!) attracted a lot of people who wanted their families to benefit from it all. No doubt, this included some folks with talented sons, if you catch my drift! [Keep in mind that Odessa was not alone in this oil wealth… shoot, on a per-capita basis, Andrews blew us all away!]

Obviously, along the way football became THE sport. But, folks, it didn't start with Permian. Odessa High won the state championship in 1939, I believe, and had stars such as Hayden Fry. (Yes, the same Coach Fry who put U of Iowa's football program on the map in the 1980s-90s. He also started his coaching career at Odessa High. In fact, my grandparents bought their house from him, but I digress.)

When Permian opened in 1959, Odessa's thirst for football excellence didn't wane. It simply transferred to the "new school." I was fortunate enough to watch Permian win it's first state championship over San Antonio Lee in 1965 in Abilene's Shotwell Stadium. Gene Mayfield was the coach at the time, and it was absolute poetry to watch them play. Such discipline. Such continuity. Hell, we even ran the same plays in Pop Warner that Permian used! What this meant was that by the time you got to HS, you had run the same offensive and defensive schemes for 5 years or more! (I’m not sure anyone else in the state was doing this at the time, thus, it was a huge advantage for the Permian teams… and one of the origins of the MOJO mystique.)

Gil Bartosh became the coach in the early 70s and took Permian to another state championship in 1972 (my sophomore year). Yet, he agreed to run the same offense as before: the old Wing T. Again, continuity. (Anyone from that era can probably tell you what his assignment was on "18 Pitch!" Yes, it was simple stuff, but it was executed to perfection. It was also executed with humility; there were no prima-donas in the system. To wit: on 18 Pitch, the QB turned around and tossed the ball to a halfback, then rushed ahead to block along with the fullback and other halfback. How many teams would sacrifice their QB nowadays to block like that on a regular basis?

The younger posters here recall Gary Gaines and even John Wilkins who was the coach before Gary, but Permian's MOJO mystique started long before these two were part of the program. They simply inherited it (and were good stewards of it, too). Still, the common denominators among all of these fine coaches were discipline, consistency, and the extra support that the oil business provided the schools and community.

Those elements lasted for decades, not just years. True, Permian had some tough and talented players over the years, but very few went on to play major ball anywhere. (Although, I must admit that I was in Darryl Hunt’s class, who went on to become an AA linebacker at Oklahoma and later played for the Houston Oilers. That class – 1975 – also included Randy Quisenberry, the current Midland Lee coach and former Abilene Cooper and Odessa High coach. In fact, he was the first Odessa High coach to beat Permian in 33 years!… isn’t it interesting that he, himself, is a Panther, but he’s made his living by beating-up on his old alma mater regularly! Ironically, that 1975 class went 8-2 – a noble record for most football programs in Texas – but that group was considered a scourge in Odessa because they didn’t make the playoffs that year. As Rodney Dangerfield would say: rough crowd, rough crowd! Sorry, I digress again.)

Sadly, the oil bust in the mid 80s put a nail in this coffin, and even though the price of oil today is at its highest point ever I don’t think Odessa will ever recover to its heyday of yesteryear. (I vividly recall the wellhead count in west Texas plummeting from 3,000+ in 1981 to something less than 500 in just a few short years. That ultimately translated into lost jobs, lost momentum, and lost interest in the area. And, I just don’t know how the area can recover from the trauma of it all.) True, there were a few state championships after that point for Permian, but there is a certain lag factor between cause and effect. The impact of the 80s oil bust finally manifested itself in Permian’s football program imploding in the late 90s. Even heralded coach TJ Mills couldn’t come in and save it.

Finally, I ask this question: if Randy Quisenberry has been so successful in all his stops as head coach in the “Little Southwest Conference,” why didn’t he apply for the HC job at Permian when it opened up a few years ago? Perhaps, just perhaps, Randy knows something that the rest of us don’t… and that is that the well is dry in Odessa.

My apologies for the length, but I just had to get this off my chest.

Gig’em, Aggies!
Go MOJO!
TTUClint
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Cotton 79. do you recall a tailback by the name of Collins Rice ? 72 grad ?
WestTexasAg
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Thanks Cotton79. That was a good read.
cindersuds
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I believe it was Robert Hall. And Lloyd was a three year starter at Permian and still holds many of the receiving records over his brother, Roy Williams.
IIIHorn
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Randy Quisenberry has as much to do with Permian success as anybody ... he was an assistant coach. He was passed over for head coach at Permian and ultimately took the OHS head coaching position. In his second or third year he led OHS to their first victory over Permian in 30 years.

His was offered the HC job at Cooper and the ECISD failed to match the offer (I wonder why). If he ever returned to coach Permian there would be a riot.

The kid playing QB in the movie seemed very familiar to me. Then I realized that he was the same actor who played the boy in the Billy Bob Thorton movie Slingblade. Can anybody confirm this.

Hook 'em!

~(%^0)

HRLIII

His Royal Lameness has spoken!

( ...voice punctuated with a clap of distant thunder... )
fdelao77
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Good read Cotton79; however I don't think that the school systems are below average in any way whatsoever, and you allude that West Texas had its heyday during that period but I respectfully disagree with you on that end. Yes Permian has fallen badly but it is not the only school in the region. You alluded to the fact that teams would run the Permian offense in the Pop Warner league. They still do that as they do in the junior highs, but Permian still uses a variation of the Wing T offense which is as obsolete as they come. Teams such as Cooper, Abilene and Midland High have revamped their offenses over the past 10 years to expose the weaknesses of their opponents whereas Permian has not changed. During Lee's three year run, they ran the ball down opponents' throats but they could do that because of superior talent, but now even Lee has come around in the last couple of years and relied more (a little more) on the pass.

District 3-5a is only a few schools in the region but other smaller schools are playing better now than they have in the past 20-30 years. I could name a few but I doubt anyone cares about the lower-level squads.
fdelao77
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ILLHorn,

you are correct. His name is Lucas Black
fdelao77
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In regards to Quisenberry at Odessa, the Bronchos were idiots to let him go. You forgot to mention that not only did he lead the Bronchos to a win over Permian, but he also took them to the playoffs for the first time since the birth of Christ. The Bronchos haven't come close to the playoffs since. They did however beat Permian this year, although I think that's more of a testament to how bad Permian is.
Cotton79
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TTU Clint,

The name Collins Rice dances around in my head, but I just can't place him. The team and players that I referred to previously would have been the graduating senior class of '73. It included:

QB: David Shipman and Tommy Campbell (Tommy was the heir apparent QB, but got hurt early in the season. So, David moved from halfback to QB for most of the season. Earned All State honors, too, and a scholarship to A&M to run Bellard's wishbone attack. I also believe he was the one that established the tradition of the Permian QB wearing the number 25, which is traditionally more a RB number than a QB number. But, it fit the Permian system to a "T."

FB: Chuck Fields

Halfback/Wingback: Roy Bobbit

Flanker: Job Bob Bizzell (2-way All State Flanker and DB both his senior and junior year. I doubt he weighed more than 155 lbs in his HS days! Earned a schollie to tU, but Royal kicked him off the team for smoking pot his sophomore year. What a waste. Pound for pound, he was the toughest football player I've ever seen.)

Mike Wilson and Mike Belew were in the mix, too, but I just don't recall in what positions (maybe Halfback, maybe Spilt End). I know these are old terms, but that's what they were called in the day.

I do recall one name from the 1970 State Finals team (which lost to Austin Reagan). The Fullback was Daniel Justice, and the media had a field day with that:

"AND JUSTICE PREVAILS AGAIN FOR PERMIAN"

What a hoot! (BTW, Daniel was one tough SOB. He definitely earned his reputation!)


Gig'em, Aggies!
Go MOJO!
IIIHorn
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fdeleo77,

The Bronchos did not let him go ... the Athletic Director and the leaders of the ECISD let him go.

HoOk 'em!

~(%^0)

HRLIII

His Royal Lameness has spoken!

( ...voice punctuated with a clap of distant thunder... )
fdelao77
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ILLHorn,
Sorry to make it sound like that. My mistake, ECISD did indeed let him go, and with him any chance of ever being respectable.

I think Odessa needs to do what Midland High did and bring in someone who will open up the offense and offset any potentialtalent gaps. Yenzer's first year at Midland High, they played for state. Spread offenses, granted I know alot of people are not high on them, are a big reason why Abilene and Cooper became dominant in the district.
Cotton79
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Fdelao77,

You make good points, and I agree. Early on in my previous tome, I mentioned that Permian had not changed with the times, but I didn't follow up and expound further. You did a much better job of that… thanks for taking the ball and running with it!

Please know, though, that I do not want to suggest in any way that the education system in Odessa is below average. In fact, quite the opposite. I was just trying to put some context to it as to how that could have happened. The wild-catters and oil barons in the first half of the 20th century were pretty smart about investing in the communities – and particularly the education systems – and you’re right to say that it was not only Odessa who benefited from this foresight. Instead, my concern is that even with such powerful momentum that was created early on, it will come to a grinding halt if not maintained well. Therein lies the rub. In the past decade or so, there have been too many oil companies that have closed shop or reduced their presence in the region. Basically, this means good paying jobs are leaving the region. The economic impact of that is terrible, yet it takes time to fully manifest itself. And, I'm not sure the residents in Odessa and surrounding regions have fully grasped that point.

Believe me, there is a fondness in my heart for west Texas that knows no bounds. It may be flat and ugly, but its home. I just wish I had a better feeling about its overall fate!

Gig’em, Aggies!
Go MOJO!
fdelao77
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Cotton79,
I agree with you thatthe place has gone downhill. I've lived in West Texas all my life, excpet for the few years I that I lived in College Station. I've lived in the small towns of Brownfield, Denver City, and Crane, graduated high school from Midland Lee and now live in Odessa. The reason I lived in so many different towns in the area was because of the oil business. My Father used to work for ARCO Pipeline when it existed but has since been bought out by another oil company. I remember the days of the early '80s when you couldn't go a mile without seeing at least 2 or 3 active pumpjacks. Nowadays, all you still see them but they've been abandoned for the most part and have weeds sprouting up all around them.
czar_iv
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fdelao77,

You're wrong about Hill. Going into 88, everyone knew Lloyd, Winchell and Boobie was going to be the offense. I was there. Once Boobie got hurt, Winchell and Hill was the offense. Comer was like an afterthought. Hill was a 3 year starter at Permian. He would have been in the NFL if not for a knee injury at Tech.
fdelao77
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CZAR,
I'm pretty sure Comer had a 1,000 yrd year for Permian in '88 and I remember Hill being a heck of a player for Permian in '88, but his numbers were nowhere near as impressive as they were in '89. That's also a testament to how good the Permian offense was in '89 because Comer had a great year as well. The Villa brothers also had productive campaigns that season.
czar_iv
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fdelao77,

Of course, Hill's number were better because Case was a better QB. Were you at Permian at 88? No, I don't think so. Go ask anyone from that class if Hill was not the most important player for the offense. Ask anyone! Don't quote me stats when you were not there.
fdelao77
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Lloyd I mean Czar,
Oh, I'm sorry to offend you because I did not go to Permian in '88. No need to get defensive Lloyd. I am a big high school football buff and have always been around West Texas so I'll say this one more time. Yes Lloyd Hill was an outstanding receiver and yes he had better stats than Roy Williams (who I believe is his Half-brother), but his best year was his senior season regardless of the QB. You sound as if Comer did nothing for the team when the fact is he had two solid seasons for Permian.

Permian always had a great back that they relied on in the '80's. Before Comer, there was Miles and before him there was Sean Crow and so on.
fdelao77
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Oh and why not quote stats? If I know that he had 1,000 yard seasons, what does it matter if I went to school there or not. Just because I wasn't sitting behind you and Buzz Bissinger in class doesn't mean I'm not familiar enough with the district.
czar_iv
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fdelao77,

Sorry to disappoint you, but I am not Lloyd Hill. You are just the typical TexAgs poster who thinks that he knows everything about football and tries to belittle someone when they call you out. Yes, Permian relied on the run for many year, but not always. In 85, when they went to state did they rely on the run? No, they did not. Ask Greg Anderson. In 88, after Boobie got hurt, they became a pass first team. Yes, Comer ran for 1000 yards, but not in the same way, Crow and others ran for 1000+ yards. In the previous year with Crow, Permian was a running team and their opponents knew it. Comer was NOT going to carry the 88 or 89 Permian team like his precessors, James Miles, Shawn Crow, D. Watson, Britt Hager, but you already knew that right?
94chem
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In '88 against Arlington Lamar, Permian ran the toss sweep about 20 times in a row in the second half to win the game, 20 (21?) - 7. After a Lamar TD early in the 2nd half tied the game at 7, Permian methodically went the length of the field in their next 2 drives, 6 yards at a time. It was brutal. They sure looked like a running team to me. I think they threw about 2 passes in the 2nd half.

Also, Permian beat Nimitz in the regional semi's in '88, not the regional finals. They beat Lamar in the state quarterfinals (regional finals) in both '88 and '89, first at Ratliff (21-7), then at Texas Stadium (20-10).
tam2002
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Carter beat Marshall in College Station in '88 in the playoffs to prevent the rematch, it was an awesome game.

Marshall was winning and on Carters last drive of the game they got down to the 10 and on the last play of the game they put Jessie Armestead (who hadnt played offense all year long) at Tight end and he caught the game winning touchdown...

"Im a little confused right now" - Mack Brown
fdelao77
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Look Czar,
I will go ahead and concede to you because it sounds like you know Permian football. If I offended you, sorry. If I sounded like some know-it-all wanna be, sorry on that too. I have always followed high school football in West Texas and Permian was always the big dog in local sports so they obviously stuck out more than others. Perhaps you are right, but all of the guys you mention, I remember all of them (especially Sean Crow) as if they were still playing.

By the way, it was '85 when Permian lost to Yates in the state title game right? And I believe in '84 they tied the now defunct Beaumont French. Am I right on those?
fdelao77
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'94chem,

That was the point I was trying to make. Comer was a heck of a back. As good as Boobie was supposed to be, Comer I thought filled in nicely. But I guess it came out wrong.
NE PA Ag
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fdelao77,

It was definitely '85 when Permian lost to Yates in the finals 37-0. I'd call it complete domination, but that Yates team has to rank up there as one of the best high school teams ever. The only close games they had that year were their wins over district rival Jones (who beat my high school in the regional semis by 6 points the week before keeping it pretty close versus Yates in the regional finals).
Cotton79
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NY Ag,

I was wondering when someone would mention that game with Houston Yates! I still wince when I think about that.

Most often, I recall the feeling that if you gave Permian 5 quarters in a close game that they will find a way to win it. (Not always accurate, but it was a general sentiment among most MOJO fans.) But that Yates game was different... I couldn't wait for the game to end. That Yates team could have lined up against the Ags, the Horns, or even that Cowboys that day and given 'em all a good run for the money. Yes, that was one potent team!

Gig'em, Aggies!
Go MOJO!
fdelao77
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Cotton or Czar,
do either of you guys recall Permian's game with Arlington in the 1987 quarterfinals? That game to me epitomized Mojo football. Granted the game ended in a tie but Permian was outmanned, outsized, and every other cliche =, but still managed to advance.
Cotton79
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fdelao77,

I was starting a new job and was in an intensive training program in the fall of 1987, so I didn't see much football that year. But I faintly recall the game against Arlington. Wasn't it a tie score and also a tie in penetrations, but Permian finally advanced because they had more 1st downs?... am I remembering that correctly?

Regardless, your point harkens back to what I mentioned previously that team discipline - from the coaches on down to the trainers - proved to be a potent part of the MOJO magic. More times than not, the Permian team was smaller-slower-less athletic than their opponent, but their hearts and "will to win" was probably twice as big!

Good example.


[This message has been edited by Cotton79 (edited 1/26/2005 6:00p).]
fdelao77
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Cotton,
Yes you are correct. The final score was 35-35 and Permian advanced on 1st downs. Granted the tie breaker stunk but Permian showed some true grit and resolve in that game. I remember listening to the game on the radio and was amazed at how they came back from a 21 point deficit. Not only that Arlington was HUGE. Their DLine and OLine had to have outweighed Permian's guys by at least 50lbs a man.

The week before, Arlington had dominated Lee, a team beat Mojo pretty badly that year something like 42-21. I remember the local media was quite skeptical based on how Lee fared whether or not Permian could even keep it close.
Cactus Jack Spivey
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The '87 Arlington game was the best I have ever seen. Two words---Shawn Crow.....
fdelao77
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Crow was awesome. He was the David against a Goliath Arlington DLine and we ran all over them in the 2nd half of that game.
assa9
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Cactus-you are an arrogant ass clown! Where the hell did you put my f'n jagermeister(sp)!!! What the heck do you know about Permian or Crow and his nnasty hairdo.....
Cactus Jack Spivey
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I know that Trev Alberts was no Shawn Crow. I also hear the Coach Bronk guy might be in line for the Permian job, but can't drink Jaeger.
Aggie
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I saw the movie tonight for the first time..thought it was horrible.
there were little things in there that made absolutly no sense...I can understand wearing of diffrent uniforms to save $$$..ie opening game Permain is playing Marshall but the opposing team in the movie is actually Midland but little things botherd me such as in the playof brackets..teams that were not even 5A were listed in it, why put Abilene Cooper in on the coin flip...little things like that bother but that is not why I thought this was not a good movie
Im not gonna ramble on about why I though the movie sucked..it would go on forver.
assa9
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Bronk would be an awesome choice! Trev and Crow have one BIG differnece-Trev is a flaming *** and Crow isn't(unless you know something I don't)!!!! On second thought, any man that cannot drink jaeger CANNOT coach football in Texas-PERIOD!! MORE LATER........
94chem
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I was at the 1987 Permian-Arlington game. I went to Lamar, and a 3 way tie sent Haltom and Arlington to the play-offs, and Lamar stayed home, having lost to both of them.

Arlington was on its way to the state title, and led MOJO 28-7 midway through the 3rd quarter. Permian punted from deep in their own territory, and the AHS returner fumbled the ball. From there, it was almost all Permian. They marched down the field 3 straight times and scored. On the final score, they trailed in first downs, so they went for 2 and didn't get it, leaving the score 28-27 AHS. Arlington then took the ball and went down the field to score again. Rather than putting the game out of reach, they kicked the PAT to go up by 8. Permian responded, driving the length of the field to get the TD, and then converting the 2 pt conversion to tie the game. Now, however, Permian led in first downs, and penetrations were even. With time winding down, Arlington was 2 first downs behind, but they had advanced the ball to near midfield. Without enough time to get 2 first downs, which would have made total yardage the tiebreaker, which in turn would have sent Arlington to the next round, a very strange thing happened. Essentially, the Permian 20 yard line became the goal line, since AHS would have advanced if they could have gotten another penetration. Anyway, they didn't make it, but this just goes to show you how bizarre the rules were at that time. 1st tiebreaker was penetrations inside the 20, 2nd was 1st downs, 3rd was total yards, and 4th was a coin flip. AHS was either 2 first downs or one 30 yard pass play short of advancing. How starnge for Permian to kick off after tieing the game, knowing that they HAD to keep AHS from making 2 or 3 first downs. I can't begin to describe how difficult this was to follow in real time. I'm sure if they had to do it over agin, Permian might have considered an on-side kick - crazy!

Those of you who didn't follow HS football at the time may be confused; those of you who lived by these rules probably followed this story easily.
 
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