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Jimbo Fisher is STILL Basically Kevin Sumlin... perhaps even less so...

7,623 Views | 61 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by W
Agsforcovfefe11
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Howdy Ags,

This is my first post on TexAgs. I've been a forum creeper for several years and after last week's heartrending loss to Alabama, I decided to show my face. I don't think that I've seen a worse managed game since Franchione. Maybe Sumlin against UCLA, but to be fair to Sumlin, they did have to switch QBs in the middle of the game. Remember when A&M played OU back in 2006 and Franchione made that infamous FG call? That was the first thing I thought of when Fisher opted to kick a FG toward the end of the fourth quarter against Alabama. There is no killer instinct. There is no "going for the jugular". A Field Goal wasn't going to win it and at that point there was no guarantee we'd have another opportunity to score. But I digress.

As we are in year 6 of the sordid Jimbo Fisher experiment, I thought I would pull some stats and compare how the two relatively long-term Aggie coaches have fared. This is not an exhaustive comparison, frankly I don't have time for that, but it's to highlight the fact that we are paying a significantly larger sum for the same, if not worse, results. I do not want to hear any more about "trust the process." This is the second "All Jimbo Players Year" and what has he shown with just his guys? Almost a worse showing than Sumlin. At this point, I don't really know how someone can honestly look me in the ye and say anything to the effect of "wait until next year" or "next year is the turning point". I think we're beyond that. If he can't get it together with his studs in Year 6, what difference is year 7, 8, or 9 going to make? Outside of hiring Petrino, we haven't really truly seen any adjustments, in game or out of game, that have indicated Jimbo is going to change and can get "over the hump." I recognize that no one in the decision making circle gives a hoot what I think, but I'm going to say it anyway because that's what the internet is for. Stats at the bottom of the post.
Agsforcovfefe11
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As you can see, while I'll admit this doesn't telll the whole story by a long shot, I am further convinced that Jimbo and Kevin are essentially equal and in fact, Kevin did slightly more with slightly less. Oh and I do want to point out that Kevin never missed a bowl game. Jimbo missed once because of "c*vid" and once because he sucks. How else do you justify a 5-7 season with the amount of talent he had? Even with the wretched Jake Spavital run-run-pass years, Sumlin still put out a more successful product than Jimbo did. Sumlin has a better record on the road, a better record against ranked opponents, and a slightly better overrall winning percentage. Not to mention a Heisman winner (I don't care that he didn't recruit him. He hired the right coaches (Kingsbury) that created the right system and development for a generational talent). Jimbo is recruiting at a level we've probably never seen before at TAMU and yet, the results are the same. In fact, let's even look at the talent that has been pushed into the NFL. Jimbo has had A&M players go to the NFL. How have they done? Well, outside of Achane, not great. Sumlin, on the other hand, can claim Mike Evans, Myles Garrett, Christian Kirk, Josh Reynolds (he's not a superstar but he does start), and Donovan Wilson (again, not a superstar but certainly solid). The way Achane has run for Miami the first few games, it leaves you wondering what in the world Jimbo was doing with him when he was at TAMU?

Agsforcovfefe11
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We can all have opinions on what should happen from here. We all know ultimately none of us really have a say. It's up to people with more power and money than us peasants. None the less, this is reality, and it's not pretty. I will always be an Aggie and an Aggie fan. I will always "root for the boys" . I will never quit. But facts are facts and this is a stark reminder of wasted money, wasted time, and wasted talent that leaves us no better than we were in 2017 when we fired Kevin Sumlin. There are those of you who will continue to make the argument that "well we just need to have one more year. Next year is our time. Our team will be so talented and experienced." If history has told us anything, it's that Jimbo and his staff does not develop and improve talent. They haven't been able to adjust and manage the new Transfer Portal rules. This is a new era of College Football and Jimbo is not keeping up. I realize that this opinion is relevant to no one but myself, but in my opinion Jimbo Fisher needs to go or we need to resign ourselves that we will end up the little brother again, just like OkSt is to OU.

Thanks and gig 'em.

Agsforcovfefe11
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GoAgs92
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heartrending?
Jerry-Ag
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Agsforcovfefe11 said:

Howdy Ags,

I've been a forum creeper for several years
Hello fellow creeper. The name's Jerry.
Get back or get Jerry’d
Agsforcovfefe11
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Well apparently TexAgs doesnt like copying and pasting excel sheets. So that's fun.
Here are some highlights from what I was going to post:

Jimbo:
Record through 6 years 43-23 (.651)
Record Against Ranked Opponents 9-15 (.375)
Record Against Alabama 1-5
Away Record 7-14 (.333)
Bowl Record 3-0 (Although missed bowling 1 year and opted out because of "c*vid" 1 year)
Highest Ranking through 6 years : 5

Sumlin:
Record through 6 years (51-26 (.662)
Record Against Ranked Opponents (12-16 (.428)
Away Record 16-10 (.615)
Bowl Record 3-3
Highest Ranking through 6 Years : 5

There was quite a bit more... but I guess that will suffice.
Jerry-Ag
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Not going to even attempt to read all of that, but I did skim over it and just need to know why tf you censored "covid". You a scared and frail little Nancy boy?
Get back or get Jerry’d
dabo man
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Well... There went your five posts for the day.
greg.w.h
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Glad you got your stalking phase over…hopefully you won't have three pent up posts per new thread you create going forward?!?

Sumlin mostly didn't focus on defense while Jimbo has recruited it well. That by itself is proof your analysis is incomplete.
Jerry-Ag
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Also seeing that your posts are all one (1) minute apart from each other, it is obvious that you had these copy and pasted. Why not just use your first (1st) post to unload all of your word vomit? Now you have wasted all of your posts for the day.

So now I will call you a jackass knowing you won't be able to respond until tomorrow. Jackass.

Jerry'd
Get back or get Jerry’d
woodyhayes
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Please go back to lurking o.p. and come back with a new handle like whiny a** little girl. Stuff gets old and doesnt help. Thank you.
Milwaukees Best Light
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Are you suggesting we get Jimbo a pimp stick?
NoahAg
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So many worrrrrrds.

Winningest modern era Aggie coaches:

RC - .721, 123 wins, 47 losses, 2 ties. 3-8 in bowls (ouch)
Sumlin - .662, 51 wins, 26 losses. 3-2 in bowls
Jimbo - .652, 43 wins, 23 losses. 3-0 in bowls
Jackie - .648, 52 wins, 28 losses, 1 tie. 2-1 in bowls

Iraq2xVeteran
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Jimbo Fisher through year 6:
Overall record: 43-23 (0.652)
SEC record: 25-19 (0.568)

SEC home record: 14-6 (0.700)
SEC home record against SEC West: 9-5 (0.643)
SEC home record against SEC East: 5-1 (0.833)

SEC away record: 7-12 (0.368)
SEC away record against SEC West: 3-10 (0.231)
SEC away record against SEC East: 4-2 (0.667)

SEC neutral site record against Arkansas: 4-1 (0.800)
Bowl record 3-0 (opt out in 2021 and 5-7 finish in 2022)
Highest finish: 9-1 (8-1 SEC) and No. 4 in 2020

Kevin Sumlin through year 6:
Overall record: 51-26 (0.662)
SEC record: 25-23 (0.521)

SEC home record: 8-14 (0.364)
SEC home record against SEC West: 3-12 (0.200)
SEC home record against SEC East: 5-2 (0.714)

SEC away record 13-9 (0.591)
SEC away record against SEC West: 9-8 (0.529)
SEC away record against SEC East: 4-1 (0.800)

SEC neutral site record against Arkansas: 4-0
Bowl record: 3-2 (0.600)
Highest finish: 11-2 (6-2 SEC) and No. 5 in 2012

In summary, Jimbo Fisher is much better in home games against SEC West teams than Kevin Sumlin was, but Kevin Sumlin was much better in road games against SEC West teams than Jimbo Fisher is. Sumlin ended his tenure with 7 consecutive home losses to SEC West teams. Jimbo has lost 7 consecutive road games, including 5 to SEC West teams.
Moral High Horse
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Sumlin has 11 two touch down or more losses, Jimbo has 6. The records are about the same but jimbo is making more of a game out of it. Yay for moral victories.
Corn Pop
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Moral High Horse said:

Sumlin has 11 two touch down or more losses, Jimbo has 6. The records are about the same but jimbo is making more of a game out of it. Yay for moral victories.


The greatest name checks out ever!!
halfastros81
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Jimbo hasn't ever lost 59-0. Jimbo's recruiting has maintained at a higher level as well - I dunno how you factor NIL into that.

Jimbo's better than Sumlin imo. I suppose it doesn't really matter because he's still not attained expectations but we are much closer now than we were at the end of Sumlin's time. Does not mean it's good enough. Does not
Mean we should jettison either.
SigAg6
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We haven't found our Jameis yet. We need to start handing out free crab legs if we are gonna contend.
Dr RC
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halfastros81 said:

Jimbo hasn't ever lost 59-0.


No but losing a game 50-7 isn't much better
halfastros81
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Yeah, that's fair . I'm no Jimbo defender but I'm
Also not sure there is a clear better answer either .
Carmine Scarpacio
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NoahAg said:

So many worrrrrrds.

Winningest modern era Aggie coaches:

RC - .721, 123 wins, 47 losses, 2 ties. 3-8 in bowls (ouch)
Sumlin - .662, 51 wins, 26 losses. 3-2 in bowls
Jimbo - .652, 43 wins, 23 losses. 3-0 in bowls
Jackie - .648, 52 wins, 28 losses, 1 tie. 2-1 in bowls


With players routinely opting out, bowl games don't mean very much these days.
Divining Rod
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My Clift Notes on Aggie Football

Sherrill- could beat all weak teams, most good teams and compete or win vs great ones.

RC beat all weak some good, lose to almost all great

Fran- who cares

Sherm- great rebuilder, talent scout, 1st half game manager

Sumlin- beat all decent teams first 6, lose all decent teams last 6

Fisher- recruit great, beat some good and some great, but generally mismanage or undeperform at end of the day. kind of an RC but mismanaging on O AND on D.
NoahAg
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Carmine Scarpacio said:

NoahAg said:

So many worrrrrrds.

Winningest modern era Aggie coaches:

RC - .721, 123 wins, 47 losses, 2 ties. 3-8 in bowls (ouch)
Sumlin - .662, 51 wins, 26 losses. 3-2 in bowls
Jimbo - .652, 43 wins, 23 losses. 3-0 in bowls
Jackie - .648, 52 wins, 28 losses, 1 tie. 2-1 in bowls


With players routinely opting out, bowl games don't mean very much these days.
Maybe so, but you can only play the team on your schedule. Had we not had stupid covid rules Jimbo would likely be 4-0 in bowls.

My point in posting these stats was to simply show that we don't exactly have a history of great, successful coaches. I'll also argue that our last 3 coaches (including Jimbo) have improved the program as a whole. We still want more, of course, but we are trending up. Soon we will stop Clemsoning Aggie-ing.
HoustonAggie37713
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Kevin Sumlin is a nobody. Long forgotten.

Jimbo Fisher has had huge success in his career, just not here.
The Marksman
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Jimbo bad, Kevin bad
There, I summed it up
Timberwolf
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Looks like Jimbo and Kevin will be pretty much even at the end of year six (with a few nuances)
halfastros81
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Sumlin's recruiting had gone to hell by yr 6 . Jimbo's has not. That is a significant difference.
Timberwolf
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halfastros81 said:

Sumlin's recruiting had gone to hell by yr 6 . Jimbo's has not. That is a significant difference.
Understood, but whats the benefit if the head coach cant figure out how to put together a winning team.
Divining Rod
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halfastros81 said:

Sumlin's recruiting had gone to hell by yr 6 . Jimbo's has not. That is a significant difference.

Somehow losing with better players is not bringing me joy.
5 Dollar Footlong
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Nailed it. And in only four words. Outstanding.
W
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Timberwolf said:

Looks like Jimbo and Kevin will be pretty much even at the end of year six (with a few nuances)
yes, and this is the problem

we should not be having this debate in year 6

Jimbo should have blown away Sumlin's accomplishments by now

but he hasn't -- he's still in a dead heat essentially
W
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halfastros81 said:

Sumlin's recruiting had gone to hell by yr 6 . Jimbo's has not. That is a significant difference.
Jimbo had a losing record last year with his recruits

Jimbo's 2 best teams...2018 and 2020...were loaded with Sumlin's players

from Mond to Trayveon to Erik McCoy to Buddy Johnson to most of the d-line and o-line
AustinAg2K
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Dr RC said:

halfastros81 said:

Jimbo hasn't ever lost 59-0.


No but losing a game 50-7 isn't much better


Neither is losing to App State.

In year 6, though, you don't need any other metric than the Win/Loss record, which right now says Jimbo is no better than Sumlin.
TexasAggie_97
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halfastros81 said:

Sumlin's recruiting had gone to hell by yr 6 . Jimbo's has not. That is a significant difference.
Sadly it has not meant squat on the field.
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