Why? People keep saying that, it seems many of you are ignoring the writing on the wall.

As I said above, I don't think they're gonna get "kicked out?" But given all we have seen in the last decade, it would not be the strangest thing that happened.

It's probably a safe bet that everyone saying there is no way Vanderbilt ever gets kicked out are the same people saying Texas would never be in the SEC or USC wouid join the Big Ten.

Ag Tag said:

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How could anyone want to expel an SEC charter member who has done nothing wrong?

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Can't "expel" Vandy, but someone like *ahem* t.u. could start talking to the bigger schools and try to convince them that they should all get together and form a "new" conference made up of the major schools in the SEC without Vandy, MS St, Ole Miss, etc.

Ags77 said:

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NOBODY IS GETTING BOOTED. NOBODY IS LEAVING. THE SEC IS ADDING, NOT SUBTRACTING.

now.. through yelling, lol

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yep. can't state this enough.

why people keep saying teams will get booted is beyond me.

24601 said:

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WC94 said:

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Vandy won a national championship in baseball in 2019, something we've never done. Much more likely our whiny asses get booted!

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That's dumb.

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The entire thread is dumb.
Vandy won it all in 2014 and 2019 and finished runner-up in 2015 and 2021.

I don't see Vandy getting booted, but as we learned last week, never say never. I don't think anyone cares about Vandy's baseball success. Baylor won the NCAA tournament last year and there is no chance Baylor will be in the SEC or Big 10. This is about football.

Realistically it makes more sense for the big dogs of the SEC to just form a new conference rather than try to boot the dead weight. Just a much easier process to leave than to try to kick someone out (not to mention the PR nightmare).

I do think it would be interesting if the SEC was really two tiers. Kind of like European soccer. Maybe the top 8-10 are tier 1 and play for the SEC championship. The bottom 8-10 play to move up to tier 1. A relegation system of sorts where the bottom 2 from tier 1 move down and top 2 from tier 2 move up every 2 years. The smaller teams would never go for that but it seems the easiest way to keep the big dogs happy while still allowing the lower quality teams to be in the SEC. The networks would enjoy it because it's otherwise hard to drum up much attention for these mediocre games.

Herbstreit is a whining poon, buts he's more tapped into this than anyone here. Here's his thoughts:

Quote:

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I think what's going to happen is this new world is going to essentially be of about 50 to 55 to 60 teams. I don't know who's going to be involved in it. But I think that's going to become what we know as Power Five, Division I college football. And then whoever's doesn't make the cut.

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Your think vandy makes that final 50? Possible yes, but I don't see it.

agnerd said:

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Ag Tag said:

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How could anyone want to expel an SEC charter member who has done nothing wrong?

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Can't "expel" Vandy, but someone like *ahem* t.u. could start talking to the bigger schools and try to convince them that they should all get together and form a "new" conference made up of the major schools in the SEC without Vandy, MS St, Ole Miss, etc.

---

I expect t.u. is already pushing a promotion/relegation league where the financial heavyweights get a bigger slice and schools like Vandy get the honor of staying in and just enough $ and hope to keep them from going elsewhere.

"16 teams is just untenable - this is for the best and it's far more fair!"

The question is whether the big schools will buy into the idea. We already know that $ and country club acclaim are all that school administrators care about.

MaxPower said:

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Realistically it makes more sense for the big dogs of the SEC to just form a new conference rather than try to boot the dead weight. Just a much easier process to leave than to try to kick someone out (not to mention the PR nightmare).

I do think it would be interesting if the SEC was really two tiers. Kind of like European soccer. Maybe the top 8-10 are tier 1 and play for the SEC championship. The bottom 8-10 play to move up to tier 1. A relegation system of sorts where the bottom 2 from tier 1 move down and top 2 from tier 2 move up every 2 years. The smaller teams would never go for that but it seems the easiest way to keep the big dogs happy while still allowing the lower quality teams to be in the SEC. The networks would enjoy it because it's otherwise hard to drum up much attention for these mediocre games.

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Not following you. Sure, there isn't an exit fee but the media rights are assigned to/owned by the conference and contractually leased to ESPN for a term of years.

Other conferences have very large exit fees and similar grants of rights that make withdrawal prohibitively expensive. Even if the media partners are cool with it, the left behind members of the conference will have their rights devalued as a result, at some point. (Think Beebe Bucks and getting the media partners to keep the payout the same for the Big XII after Nebraska and Colorado left, mitigating the damages.)

Maryland and I believe also Rutgers had not signed the GOR with the ACC so that case was a bit different. Those rights were not directly impacted. It was the exit fee for them that had to be negotiated during the lawsuit.

So how would withdrawal and forming a "new" conference actually work?

ToxicAG said:

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Vanderbilt isn't getting booted because of AAU membership. A&M needs to start investing in academics like we do in sports. We are on the verge of getting kicked out - bottom of the list based on the latest numbers. Iowa State voluntarily left the AAU this year before being asked to leave.

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Source?

I would be interested to see what the ranking criteria is considering that A&M is top 20 in research expenditures which is a major AAU consideration.

Dr. Nefario said:

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ToxicAG said:

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Vanderbilt isn't getting booted because of AAU membership. A&M needs to start investing in academics like we do in sports. We are on the verge of getting kicked out - bottom of the list based on the latest numbers. Iowa State voluntarily left the AAU this year before being asked to leave.

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Source?

I would be interested to see what the ranking criteria is considering that A&M is top 20 in research expenditures which is a major AAU consideration.

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I have seen some references that USDA and similar agricultural research money is being dropped as acceptable for AAU accreditation. Unsure if that is truly the case or under some discussion somewhere.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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agnerd said:

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Ag Tag said:

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How could anyone want to expel an SEC charter member who has done nothing wrong?

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Can't "expel" Vandy, but someone like *ahem* t.u. could start talking to the bigger schools and try to convince them that they should all get together and form a "new" conference made up of the major schools in the SEC without Vandy, MS St, Ole Miss, etc.

---

I expect t.u. is already pushing a promotion/relegation league where the financial heavyweights get a bigger slice and schools like Vandy get the honor of staying in and just enough $ and hope to keep them from going elsewhere.

"16 teams is just untenable - this is for the best and it's far more fair!"

The question is whether the big schools will buy into the idea. We already know that $ and country club acclaim are all that school administrators care about.

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From many of the comments on Texags, "$ and country club acclaim" is all that many Aggies care about as well. We have become very much like what we had always hated about Texas since joining the SEC. We have become arrogant and spend too much time talking about money and facilities.

20ag07 said:

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Quote:

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This thread is ridiculous. Vanderbilt isn't being removed from the conference. If they were, it would be a good indication that the SEC leadership is bad.

The fact that some Aggies think this should happen is sad. A non-trivial portion of our fanbase has become incredibly arrogant.

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You say this. But don't say why.

Basketball and Baseball aren't the answer.

AAU status isn't the answer.

Private school protection isn't the answer.

They're taking a slice of the pie everybody is maximizing right now, as their legal contracts allow.

But- tell us why Vandy is being kept.

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How about the fact that Vanderbilt is one of the founding members of the SEC and has been part of the SEC since before we won our last football National Championship?

Truly sad that fans of a University that has been part of this conference for just 10 years are talking about booting out founding members because they don't bring in enough money. There is some other school we accuse of always acting like this. I wonder who that is.

They're a founding member. they aren't getting booted.

TexAggie1999 said:

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20ag07 said:

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Quote:

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This thread is ridiculous. Vanderbilt isn't being removed from the conference. If they were, it would be a good indication that the SEC leadership is bad.

The fact that some Aggies think this should happen is sad. A non-trivial portion of our fanbase has become incredibly arrogant.

---

You say this. But don't say why.

Basketball and Baseball aren't the answer.

AAU status isn't the answer.

Private school protection isn't the answer.

They're taking a slice of the pie everybody is maximizing right now, as their legal contracts allow.

But- tell us why Vandy is being kept.

---

How about the fact that Vanderbilt is one of the founding members of the SEC and has been part of the SEC since before we won our last football National Championship?

Truly sad that fans of a University that has been part of this conference for just 10 years are talking about booting out founding members because they don't bring in enough money. There is some other school we accuse of always acting like this. I wonder who that is.

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A lot of our fan base suffers from delusions of grandeur in regard to our athletics program's success. They act like we have the hardware to be the swinging dick in the room when we haven't played for a men's national championship in god knows how long.

Pepe SiIvia said:

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TexAggie1999 said:

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20ag07 said:

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Quote:

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A lot of our fan base suffers from delusions of grandeur in regard to our athletics program's success. They act like we have the hardware to be the swinging dick in the room when we haven't played for a men's national championship in god knows how long.

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There's no in-between with Ags. It's either BAS, or WRTS!! No level-headed, middle ground.

Let's just keep supporting and keep competing ok? With humility - not being a victim, and not being asshats. Reckon that's possible?

Who am I kidding.

I saw it on an internal TAMU document. The $1.2 billion also includes state agency funds (i.e. Agrilife and TEES), which inflates the numbers and is not counted by AAU. Our biggest issue is NIH funding, which is the main reason A&M is falling in the rankings. To reach just the 25% percentile of other top 20 universities in research expenditure, A&M would need to hire at least 150 faculty with an average of over $500k each in NIH grants. I don't see that happening.

Thanks for information. Not good but better to know what is happening and why.

I think you are correct about them ganging up in a self preservation mode. I think there are at least 4 teams in the SEC which would probably not be desired by ESPN:
1-Vandy
2-Ms State
3-South Carolina
4-Ole Miss

Then there are teams in the BIG that won't make it either:
1-Rutgers
2-Northwestern
3-Indiana
4-Illinois
5-Purdue
6-Maryland

An article in Baton Rouge talked about the way things are heading and to avoid the Conference bloodletting is to have schools form a new league by invitation only and set forth some criteria for membership which some of the current schools cannot meet. Whether it be athletic success; financial stability, etc. For example, Ole Miss has never gone to Atlanta and the last Ole Miss SEC Football Championship was in 1963. You can set forth Stadium size or whatever but it would be invitation only to join.

Remember when they almost beat us a couple of years ago?

Wow.

Ags77 said:

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NOBODY IS GETTING BOOTED. NOBODY IS LEAVING. THE SEC IS ADDING, NOT SUBTRACTING.

now.. through yelling, lol

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You know I don't agree with this. Not in 10 years at least. Several current SEC schools will not be in the same division as A&M and t.u. when this is all said and done. Same can be said for several BIG schools.

agsalaska said:

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Ags77 said:

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NOBODY IS GETTING BOOTED. NOBODY IS LEAVING. THE SEC IS ADDING, NOT SUBTRACTING.

now.. through yelling, lol

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You know I don't agree with this. Not in 10 years at least. Several current SEC schools will not be in the same division as A&M and t.u. when this is all said and done. Same can be said for several BIG schools.

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All hell will break loose trying to get conference by-laws adopted to allow that to happen.

aggiehawg said:

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agsalaska said:

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Ags77 said:

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NOBODY IS GETTING BOOTED. NOBODY IS LEAVING. THE SEC IS ADDING, NOT SUBTRACTING.

now.. through yelling, lol

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You know I don't agree with this. Not in 10 years at least. Several current SEC schools will not be in the same division as A&M and t.u. when this is all said and done. Same can be said for several BIG schools.

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All hell will break loose trying to get conference by-laws adopted to allow that to happen.

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Agreed. And my guess it is will not be kicking the small schools out but rather the big schools leaving.

There are only 30-36 schools that can compete in the new landscape. And they have been consolidating since the first breakup of the Big12 10-12 years ago. And that continues.

I am sure if you would have asked Texas Tech in 2005 whether or not they would ever be relegated to a small conference they would have laughed at you. I am sure Mississippi State feels the same way right now.

Quote:

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I am sure if you would have asked Texas Tech in 2005 whether or not they would ever be relegated to a small conference they would have laughed at you. I am sure Mississippi State feels the same way right now.

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LOL. Tech was protected, when Powers was in charge. He promised Hance he would drag tech with them wherever they went. Which included the B1G back in 2010.

Emails between Gordon Gee, Jim Delany and between Powers and Hance prove that.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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I am sure if you would have asked Texas Tech in 2005 whether or not they would ever be relegated to a small conference they would have laughed at you. I am sure Mississippi State feels the same way right now.

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LOL. Tech was protected, when Powers was in charge. He promised Hance he would drag tech with them wherever they went. Which included the B1G back in 2010.

Emails between Gordon Gee, Jim Delany and between Powers and Hance prove that.

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You are missing the point. I could have just as easily said Kansas State, or Arizona State.

Quote:

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You are missing the point. I could have just as easily said Kansas State, or Arizona State.

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With all due respect, you are missing the point. Programs that needed protection, sought and secured it.

But just like the Mafia protection racket, that will go away when the protectors are displeased or having to man the lifeboats and there is not room.

Which is the most hysterical thing about how the sips and sooners remade the Big XII to their precise specifications, looked around after ten years and realized they had created their own nightmare.

Going to the SEC will not cure that nightmare, still will have it but in a better neighborhood.

I mean getting beat by Vanderbilt, Ole Miss and Arkansas will be better than being beat by Kansas, right?

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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You are missing the point. I could have just as easily said Kansas State, or Arizona State.

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With all due respect, you are missing the point. Programs that needed protection, sought and secured it.

But just like the Mafia protection racket, that will go away when the protectors are displeased or having to man the lifeboats and there is not room.

Which is the most hysterical thing about how the sips and sooners remade the Big XII to their precise specifications, looked around after ten years and realized they had created their own nightmare.

Going to the SEC will not cure that nightmare, still will have it but in a better neighborhood.

I mean getting beat by Vanderbilt, Ole Miss and Arkansas will be better than being beat by Kansas, right?

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I am not talking about the Sips and Sooners. You are.

I agree with the bolded. In the end Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Kentucky, etc. will not be in the same conference as A&M, Bama, t.u. etc.

agsalaska said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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You are missing the point. I could have just as easily said Kansas State, or Arizona State.

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With all due respect, you are missing the point. Programs that needed protection, sought and secured it.

But just like the Mafia protection racket, that will go away when the protectors are displeased or having to man the lifeboats and there is not room.

Which is the most hysterical thing about how the sips and sooners remade the Big XII to their precise specifications, looked around after ten years and realized they had created their own nightmare.

Going to the SEC will not cure that nightmare, still will have it but in a better neighborhood.

I mean getting beat by Vanderbilt, Ole Miss and Arkansas will be better than being beat by Kansas, right?

---

I am not talking about the Sips and Sooners. You are.

I agree with the bolded. In the end Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Kentucky, etc. will not be in the same conference as A&M, Bama, t.u. etc.

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Tell me how that works legally, chapter and verse of by-laws and media contracts.

I am very confused how programs just get wiped out and go quietly into into the night, right now.

Vandy is strong in other sports besides football. They have in fact won a couple recent baseball national championships. More than we can claim in Men's big three sports this century. Not sure why this topic comes up.

WC94 said:

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24601 said:

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WC94 said:

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Vandy won a national championship in baseball in 2019, something we've never done. Much more likely our whiny asses get booted!

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That's dumb.

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Why is that dumb? With sips they retain the Texas foot print, we aren't as valuable as before. I don't understand the mightier than thou attitude only being in the conference 10 years. Didn't we just get stabbed in the back?

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Its not dumb but rather irrelevant. What we're dealing with here is football and football alone. You'll have to stay tuned for the other sports as its almost certain schools will reorganize for most or all of those. USC/UCLA, for example, are not going to go to Rutgers or Maryland for weekend baseball or softball series or midweek volleyball matches. They can't afford to. How many Sun/Wed/Fri trips can UCLA/USC make to play basketball (men or women) at Michigan/MichSt/Indiana, etc.?

I don't think Vandy and A&M will be playing each other in conference play in baseball beyond 2024.

agnerd said:

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Ag Tag said:

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How could anyone want to expel an SEC charter member who has done nothing wrong?

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Can't "expel" Vandy, but someone like *ahem* t.u. could start talking to the bigger schools and try to convince them that they should all get together and form a "new" conference made up of the major schools in the SEC without Vandy, MS St, Ole Miss, etc.

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tu isn't the threat they were.

Well, a better way to say that would be that SEC TAMU, bama, lsu, UGA, UF, auburn, TN, KY, etc etc aren't the same as baylol, tceh, tcu, isu, and ksu. They chose to follow us b/c they didn't want to be left behind, and any sneaky/underhanded/etc shenanigans will not go over the same way in the SEC that they did in SWC/B12.

BMX Bandit said:

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Herbstreit is a whining poon, buts he's more tapped into this than anyone here. Here's his thoughts:

Quote:

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I think what's going to happen is this new world is going to essentially be of about 50 to 55 to 60 teams. I don't know who's going to be involved in it. But I think that's going to become what we know as Power Five, Division I college football. And then whoever's doesn't make the cut.

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Your think vandy makes that final 50? Possible yes, but I don't see it.

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I think it's everyone in SEC/B1G/ND, that's 33. Then:

Clemson
Fl State
UNC
Oregon
Washington

That's 38. I can't look at anybody else in the ACC/bigPAC and say for certain if they'd be in or out in this scenario. Might be all of the teams in the ACC and BigPac are in and we just have 4 conferences with roughly 16 teams each. Will sure be interesting to find out.

ToxicAG said:

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I saw it on an internal TAMU document. The $1.2 billion also includes state agency funds (i.e. Agrilife and TEES), which inflates the numbers and is not counted by AAU. Our biggest issue is NIH funding, which is the main reason A&M is falling in the rankings. To reach just the 25% percentile of other top 20 universities in research expenditure, A&M would need to hire at least 150 faculty with an average of over $500k each in NIH grants. I don't see that happening.

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Saying that we don't spend enough on academics is very different from "we don't spend enough on the kind of academics that the aau cares about". We're spending it just fine, and we should continue to spend it however tf we want. If the aau wants to boot us then let 'em.

aggiehawg said:

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agsalaska said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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You are missing the point. I could have just as easily said Kansas State, or Arizona State.

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With all due respect, you are missing the point. Programs that needed protection, sought and secured it.

But just like the Mafia protection racket, that will go away when the protectors are displeased or having to man the lifeboats and there is not room.

Which is the most hysterical thing about how the sips and sooners remade the Big XII to their precise specifications, looked around after ten years and realized they had created their own nightmare.

Going to the SEC will not cure that nightmare, still will have it but in a better neighborhood.

I mean getting beat by Vanderbilt, Ole Miss and Arkansas will be better than being beat by Kansas, right?

---

I am not talking about the Sips and Sooners. You are.

I agree with the bolded. In the end Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Kentucky, etc. will not be in the same conference as A&M, Bama, t.u. etc.

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Tell me how that works legally, chapter and verse of by-laws and media contracts.

I am very confused how programs just get wiped out and go quietly into into the night, right now.

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First, your first question is the attorney in you. You know I can't answer that so you asked it thinking that proves something. I could flip that over and ask you the exact same question. What makes them stay? Neither of us can answer that because we don't have access.

You are missing the big picture.

Let me ask you this, how many D1 schools have moved conferences since 1992? I am going to guess 50-70 of them. Roughly half. So let's not dismiss the idea that some schools in the SEC can leave other schools in the SEC. And let's not pretend that any school has any other school's best interest in mind.



To start over, my guess is, in the end, 30-36 teams break away completely from the rest. They will probably leave conferences behind, just like A&M has done twice, and just like UCLA and USC just did. We used to be six major conferences. We are now down to two, with Oregon, Washington, FSU, and Clemson, and maybe two or three others being the only major holdouts. I suspect that at least Oregon and Washington will announce something this summer.

Once that is completed there will be obvious dead weight at the bottom. Teams that will look a lot like Texas Tech looks now or even SMU looked in 1992. Schools like Purdue, Rutgers, Mississippi State, Northwestern, Vandy, Ole Miss, probably Kentucky, etc. Eventually, just like Arizona State and Kansas State before them, they will get left behind.