I don't doubt that every conference protects its NC contenders. My point is that Texas is absolute gold to them and they can't afford Texas openly going against their leadership, which we should do right now if nothing else to make notice that this won't stand in the future.

Agreed. The better team won, but gotta admit biased officiating isn't some crazy conspiracy.

refs were awful! check their birth places and would not be surprised that they are local Alabama Citizens and born there too!!!

Gig em G said:

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Agreed. The better team won, but gotta admit biased officiating isn't some crazy conspiracy.

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Maybe if we weren't overpaying Sumlin so much we could afford a little extra "walking around money", if you catch the drift.

JFS61 said:

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The Chicken Ranch said:

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The officiating would not have changed the outcome of this game. It is what it is.

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Oaky - Either we lost to Bama because they are the Number 1 team in the universe, or because the refs threw the game.

Doesn't matter to me, but choose one or the other.

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We lost the game because Alabama is much better.

Sorry you think otherwise.

BBDP said:

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I wanted them to review their 1st TD. Looked like he may have fumbled going in out of bounds.

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Agreed, the back endzone cam shot appeared to show him lose control of the ball before the goal line, after he had possession. No review, Nor a mention of the ball being loose prior to the endzone

The Chicken Ranch said:

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JFS61 said:

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The Chicken Ranch said:

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The officiating would not have changed the outcome of this game. It is what it is.

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Oaky - Either we lost to Bama because they are the Number 1 team in the universe, or because the refs threw the game.

Doesn't matter to me, but choose one or the other.

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We lost the game because Alabama is much better.

Sorry you think otherwise.

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Yeah, they're the better team, but sometimes the better team will lose if the inferior team can catch a break or get a crucial call.

Guitarsoup has a nice shot of Knight getting nailed, helmet to helmet, while he had the ball. Imgur is letting me down.

Guys, don't get me wrong. I'm not going to put this one on the refs. The game turned on the Washington foul for sure.

But our guys deserved better than that. Speedy deserved better. Myles deserved better. It makes zero sense for Bama to have no critical calls going against them when they were 100% obvious. I will even concede the Priest Willis PI even though I think that was a crap call. The Speedy hit should have been called, definitely.

But it's not just this game. I've seen games where the Refs screwed up which side they were supposed to assign the penalty to. I saw Myles get flagged for a penalty when he wasn't even near the play (assigned to wrong team). I saw a play last week for Bama Tennessee where the same thing happened. They got together and corrected it, but it shouldn't have even happened.

I get it, the refs are human. They are going to miss stuff sometimes. They aren't perfect. They made good calls against us and flagged us when we should have been flagged.

The difference was, our flag cost us the game, of that I am sure of. The no-calls for Bama didn't cost them anything.

RAB83 said:

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It's worse than playing the sips. More blatant. More obvious.

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Let's not get carried away

Here's the deal. Bama was clearly the better team. However, for us to win, we had to play a good clean game AND have balanced/fair officiating.

We got neither. We made way too many mistakes and the officiating was a joke.

Had the officiating been fair, the game would've been closer but we probably still lose.

gigemags-99 said:

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ScoutBanderaAg956 said:

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Ol Jock 99 said:

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There was a flag on to Renyolds TD. They just didn't discuss it since he caught it.

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I didn't see a flag

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There was a flag thrown. It was in front of the play.

Regardless, there were still some horrible calls / non-calls

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If they threw a flag, then after the play, the official would have said "pass interference on the defense, penalty declined, touchdown is good". But I didn't hear that. I don't think a flag was thrown. Maybe I missed it

An offense's team end line is the goal line they are defending, i.e. the one behind them. Once the ball has left the tackle box a block below the waist must be from the front between 10 & 2. The block is question was going away from the offense's end line and was from the front between 10 & 2 and therefore completely legal.

You found the correct rule in the rule book you just have to take all the different parts of the rule into consideration.

There were some BS calls today, no doubt. It was sickening.

I'm not sure there is a solution to that other than winning.

The only other alternative is threatening leaving the conference and pulliing viewers - and lets face it no one is going BDF.

JFS61 said:

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The Chicken Ranch said:

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JFS61 said:

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The Chicken Ranch said:

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The officiating would not have changed the outcome of this game. It is what it is.

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Oaky - Either we lost to Bama because they are the Number 1 team in the universe, or because the refs threw the game.

Doesn't matter to me, but choose one or the other.

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We lost the game because Alabama is much better.

Sorry you think otherwise.

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My post was making fun of all the pumpers who think we lost today because of the refs - Next time I'll include a /sarc tag.

We lost because we finally got showed up for the team that we really are, but many of the pumpers psyches are too fragile to handle that.

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Wait, I've got too hear this. What team are we compared to what we, and every prognosticator thought we'd be to start the season? I'll hang up and listen so you can get your little tirade in.

Wilson's ejection hit was a shoulder to chest contact, in real speed looked worse but replay confirmed it wasn't helmet contact and if you didn't see that or think that he should've been tossed you're an old and need your eyes checked.

Also there was a blatant no call on a block in the back on one of their punt returns early 4th quarter maybe I can't recall exactly when it was but wouldve been happy to get that deserved yardage back, on top of everything else that screwed us in the game officiating wise - ultimately we shot ourselves in the foot more so than getting jobbed by stripes but just hilarious how losing by only 19 to Bama makes us look like we're stuck in the same echelon as the whole rest of the SEC west and no light is made of how competitive the game was despite us giving it to them, moral victories amirite?

-With disdain I happened to see some more highlights (bar and beer, current theme today) and the blatant block in the back was on the play that eddie jackson broke his leg, absolutely sucks for the guy and having to end his career on that play but to play advocate the situation could've been different overall if that block in the back didn't happen - or maybe I just need to give up on sports for a week since the stars are depleted and cowboys are thankfully on a bye.

RGLAG85 said:

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JFS61 said:

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The Chicken Ranch said:

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JFS61 said:

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The Chicken Ranch said:

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The officiating would not have changed the outcome of this game. It is what it is.

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Oaky - Either we lost to Bama because they are the Number 1 team in the universe, or because the refs threw the game.

Doesn't matter to me, but choose one or the other.

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We lost the game because Alabama is much better.

Sorry you think otherwise.

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My post was making fun of all the pumpers who think we lost today because of the refs - Next time I'll include a /sarc tag.

We lost because we finally got showed up for the team that we really are, but many of the pumpers psyches are too fragile to handle that.

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Wait, I've got too hear this. What team are we compared to what we, and every prognosticator thought we'd be to start the season? I'll hang up and listen so you can get your little tirade in.

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Ill be waiting for this as well.

The call that changed the game was the roughing the QB call against Washington and it was the correct call.

golfgalag said:

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They hold us every damn play and not one holding call. I am sick of it!!

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I'm sorry. Do you want to be held?

I really surprised nobody has talked about or even caught the incorrect call on the Washington penalty.

If you watch the play from start to finish you'll see (#75 or #66... can't remember which) blatantly holding D. Mack by the back of his jersey with his arm extended as Mack tries to chase the QB down.

I saw it in real time and thought at the very worst it will be offsetting penalties, reply the down....nope, not in T-town. Penalty on us, not on them... pathetic.

You need a new TV or a new service provider because the rest of us saw a very clear slow motion and full time replay that showed helmet to helmet contact using the crown of the helmet!

Are you watching the RADIO REPLAY?

One of many blatant holds that didn't get called! I'm shocked none of the holds by Alabama offense and none of the holds by the Alabama defense on our receivers were called!

So on the kick return, was that a foul. Everything I've found says they have to be a defenseless player.

No doubt the officiating favored Alabama. I wonder what the SEC top brass are going to do about it. Maybe they are like the FBI and Clinton. No intent to commit a penalty so a no call. Come on SEC have you no pride in that area.

I didn't think the officiating was that bad. You can hold inside the pads, you know. We need to do more of it if that's what the officials are going to give.

Scout Bandera needs to learn the definition of "crown of helmet".

There is so much confusion in college football about what is and isn't targeting, and clearly even replay officials are confused. Wilson did in fact hit him helmet to helmet (not crown). For that to be targeting requires it to be on a defenseless player. I will never understand how a player in pursuit of a ball carrier can ever be considered defenseless. Same as the call on RSJ last year in Miss State game.

On Bamas TD pass to #3 on the swing pass, their OLineman was in the endzone (on the bottom of the "S" in this pic). We were called for the same thing earlier.

My problem with the non calls is that we had some game changing correct call against us. They had several no calls that would have also changed the game.

bert harbinson said:

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silverleaf said:

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bert harbinson said:

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It appears Bama only commits 5 yard penalties.

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On the bright side, it opened up 3 different free long shots that gave us 30 yards.


Maybe Sumlin should start chewing on the refs a bit?

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Just wondering, can he ask for a review on the Speedy helmet-to-helmet?

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Wouldn't matter. They said the review officials are in Birmingham. That seems fair.

wbt5845 said:

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I didn't think the officiating was that bad. You can hold inside the pads, you know. We need to do more of it if that's what the officials are going to give.

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They don't call it because it's difficult to see but it's not in the rules:

Quote:

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ARTICLE 3.
a. Use of Hands
A teammate of a ball carrier or a passer legally may block with his shoulders, his hands, the outer surface of his arms or any other part of his body under the following provisions.1. The hand(s) shall be a) In advance of the elbow.(b) Inside the frame of the opponent's body (Exception: When the opponent turns his back to the blocker) (A.R. 9-3-3-VI and VII).(c) At or below the shoulder(s) of the blocker and the opponent (Exception: When the opponent squats, ducks or submarines).(d) Apart and never in a locked position.2. The hand(s) shall be open with the palm(s) facing the frame of the opponent or closed or cupped with the palms not facing the opponent (A.R. 9-3-3-I-IV and VI-VIII). RULE 9 / CONDUCT OF PLAYERS AND OTHERS SUBJECT TO THE RULES FR-97
b. Holding
The hand(s) and arm(s) shall not be used to grasp, pull, hook, clamp or encircle in any way that illegally impedes or illegally obstructs an opponent. PENALTY10 yards Penalties for Team A fouls behind the neutral zone are enforced from the previous spot. Safety if the foul occurs behind Team A's goal line [S42].
c. Kicking Team
A player on the kicking team may:1. During a scrimmage kick play, use his hand(s) and/or arm(s) to ward off an opponent attempting to block him when he is beyond the neutral zone.2. During a free kick play, use his hand(s) and/or arm(s) to ward off an opponent who is attempting to block him.3. During a scrimmage kick play or a free kick play, when he is eligible to touch the ball, legally use his hand(s) and/or arm(s) to push an opponent in an attempt to reach a loose ball.
d. Passing Team
An eligible player of the passing team legally may use his hand(s) and/or arm(s) to ward off or push an opponent in an attempt to reach a loose ball after a legal forward pass has been touched by any player or official (Rules 7-3-5, 7-3-8, 7-3-9 and 7-3-11).

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holding_(American_football)#cite_note-NCAA-1][/url]

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Having said that, when a player's shoulder pads (see: Myles Garrett) are over his ears, the offensive lineman does not have his hands inside the shoulder pads.

Aggies aren't the only ones who feel this way...

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/10/22/13367780/alabama-texas-am-targeting-ncaa-rule

Quote:

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Both these huge A&M-Bama hits were targeting. The one against Bama wasn't called

Yes, targeting can be called on hits against players who aren't defenseless.

Freshman Alabama linebacker Mack Wilson laid out Texas A&M wide receiver Speedy Noil with this hit during a first quarter kick return:

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/EsuPMAuR6NIE1Uh1aKDOIsndDeE=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7326331/bamatargeting.0.gif


The play was not flagged by officials on the field or in the review center.

Noil was checked for a concussion by A&M medical staff afterward.
Noil was carrying the ball and was not a defenseless runner, a term that includes players like mid-throw quarterbacks or mid-catch wide receivers. According to CBS, the SEC's Birmingham review office said the play wasn't targeting because it didn't involve a defenseless player.

Part of the NCAA's targeting rule does refer to defenseless players, but using the crown of the helmet to hit another player in the helmet is supposed to be targeting even if the player has the ball.
Here's the other part of the NCAA's rule:

Quote:

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No player shall target and make forcible contact against an opponent with the crown (top) of his helmet. This foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting. When in question, it is a foul.

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Not a word about "defenseless" in there.
Those indicators include:

Quote:

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Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of the helmet.
Leading with helmet, shoulder, forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area

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Again, nothing about "defenseless."
Here's where "defenseless" does appear:

Quote:

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No player shall target and make forcible contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow or shoulder

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They're essentially two different rules on the same penalty.
Later in the game, Bama's Damien Harris caught a helmet shot to the side of the head while engaged with a ball carrier. This time, Donovan Wilson was ejected and the Aggies were penalized 15 yards.

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/SUSGNFJJwQkLj9LxKGH9MiCuTUI=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7326411/34.0.gif

Both were clearly targeting. Only the road team was penalized.

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When they blew off the helmet to helmet tackle of Speedy on the kickoff return - it was telling of baldface bias.

There could not have been an objective review official watching that in the booth. Even Danielson spoke up that the play was reviewable from upstairs. The ref saw it, he didn't miss the play.

That photo of the OL holding Myles Garrett by the face mask is incredible - I don't remember any Bama holding calls the whole game - reminds me of the big Ricky Williams rushing day in Austin in "98 where the refs just weren't going to call any kind of holding.

Washington should not have been called for his foul if they don't call the fouls on the Speedy KO return or on that play that the Aggie posted of Myles being blatantly held.

I agree that calls can be missed and its unsporting to make a skill of referee complaining. Thing is - you're good enough to win or not.

The Texas A&M Athletic Dept. should file a review/complaint with the league office or just forward this poster's thread. Rogue officials are bad for any league. See the Big 12.

To be accurate - it was a leading of the crown of the helmet to the head of Speedy, an obvious foul

edited to include more pics.