So much idiocy. Nowhere did JJ show "hate for Sumlin", nor did he fault anyone for Sherman's firing. Only the method by which it was done.

Quit comparing coaches. Sherman was good at some things - OL recruiting and development being something he was OUTSTANDING at. And he was a good guy who represented the school well. He left the program in far better shape than he found it, and anyone who says otherwise is just wilfully blind.

Sumlin's a different kind of coach with different strengths. He deserves to be judged on his own merits. If he doesn't contend next year, he deserves to be fired too. That's just my opinion.

don't forget the 2009 Colorado game...

Ags led 21-10 at halftime and then later 31-21 in the 4th quarter...and we know how it ended.

that Buffalo team finished the season 3-9.

another awful 2nd half collapse

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so you're saying 6-6 is better than 8-4?

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Sure, it can be. Depends on each teams schedule and the scores. I posted both teams good wins and all of their losses. I can add the remaining wins, but they were over mediocre to cupcake teams. I'm not hiding anything and I have no agenda. Just posted the results because most people voice their opinions off their fuzzy memories.


One difference in the fans between 2011 and 2015 is that the majority wanted the coach fired in 2011 and the majority in 2015 think Sumlin is the right guy to win a championship. Time will tell who is right.

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Quit comparing coaches. Sherman was good at some things - OL recruiting and development being something he was OUTSTANDING at. And he was a good guy who represented the school well. He left the program in far better shape than he found it, and anyone who says otherwise is just wilfully blind.

Sumlin's a different kind of coach with different strengths. He deserves to be judged on his own merits. If he doesn't contend next year, he deserves to be fired too. That's just my opinion.

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The comparisons are really 'un-intelligent', we agree there.

For JJ, he creates his narrative which highlights selective parts of Sherman's tenure and then by omitting enough of what Sumlin has accomplished, he compares the two which is all to project his anger into the off season with a declaration: "Sumlin BETTER WIN 10 or HE"S FIRED".

He's angry and has been for weeks.

Sherman in 4 years at Texas A&M: (in the Big 12)

2008: 4-8 (lost to Arkansas state and a 4-8 Baylor team)
2009: 6-7 (lost bowl game)
2010: 9-4 (lost bowl game, but had some good wins over top 15 Oklahoma, and top 10 Nebraska)
2011: 6-6* (did not coach bowl game)


Sumlin in 4 years at Texas A&M: (in the SEC west)

2012: 11-2 (won Cotton Bowl over top 10 Oklahoma, beat #1 Bama on the road)
2013: 9-4 (won bowl game)
2014: 8-5 (won bowl game, lost 59-0)
2015: 8-4 (bowl TBD)


Sherman at A&M 25-25 (15-18 in big 12, 0-2 in bowl games)

Sumlin at A&M 36-15 (17-15 in SEC, 3-0 in bowl games)

I don't see a ton of improvement in those 4.


#1 I don't see much of an improvement. Are we getting higher rated players? Yes. But are we really improving the roster? So far, I'm seeing a lot of guys with good ratings who don't pan out. It's reminiscent of tu's highly rated classes that didn't go anywhere, and I'm wondering if we're talent chasing or star chasing. Also, haven't a lot of people attributed our recruiting improvements to being in the SEC? How much credit do we give Sumlin and how much to our new status?

#2 Sumlin did go out and hire a great defensive coordinator, but it took him a long time to do it. Sherman had a new DC after only 2 years (Kines retired, but I have a feeling he was told to) and saw us go from allowing 33.5 ppg to 21.9 in one year. We didn't give him a fifth year to see if he made a turnaround.

#3 The offense has gone down hill every year since Sumlin took over. It is beyond broken. Mike Sherman showed improvement and development the entire time he was here. 09-10 was a plateau, but 11 was a big improvement. So far, spav hasn't been let go. There's no telling if he will be. We can all agree that if he's not, it will be egregious. I am really wondering if Sumlin is not giving him one more year. At least Snyder had a decent defense in 2012 and lacked talent in 2013. You could make an argument for keeping him in 2014. Spav has been nothing but a ****ing anchor for 2 years, so I'm not sure why we're waiting.

#4 Special teams has been good. They weren't bad under Sherman either, though. That's a wash.



My problem is that under Sherman, we improved every year until 2011. I see that as a setback and rebuilding year. Under Sumlin, we have regressed every year. We got one more regular season win this year, but a bowl loss puts us right back where we were. The only unit I have any confidence in whatsoever is the defense, and even then, I'm not sure were that much improved from when Sumlin took over. The offense, despite having talent, looks absolutely worse.

Bring Sherman back in some capacity. He was good for Aggieland during his stayl.

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I always felt Mike Sherman was really good at evaluating and developing O linemen. Could we be seeing the effects of him no longer involved in the O line?

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too bad we treated him the way we did.. would love to see him back in charge of O-Line recruiting and player development.

I can't believe Jarring Jay's post has over 200 blue stars. Sherman did some things right, but he did **** ton of things wrong too. For example, THE MOST amazing spotter and developer of talent EVAR did a horrible job with defensive recruiting, which is the biggest reason by far that our 2013 team, which featured one of the best offenses in college football history, didn't contend for a title (all that offense needed was a mediocre or hell even bad defense to contend, but instead they were shackled with an abominable one. We lost 2 games at home in which we score 40+ points).

Throw in his deficiencies as OC, his bizarre obsession with balance, his stubbornness in sticking with an injured Jerrod -- which cost us the Big 12 Title in 2010 by the way -- and the fact that he was the worst team morale and psyche manager in the history of sports, and I don't get this pining at all.

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WIN AGAINST THE TOP OF THE SEC inside of FOUR YEARS.

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Sumlin's SEC record:

Arkansas 4-0
Vanderbilt 2-0
South Carolina 2-0
MSU 3-1
Auburn 2-2
Ole Miss 2-2
Missouri 1-2
Alabama 1-3
Florida 0-1
LSU 0-4

Exactly who, at the top of the SEC, has he beaten? Alabama? In 2012?



You want to talk about second half collapses? Take a look at the last two years.

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Second half of the season is not the same as second half of the year especially when our star QB got his should f***ed up this year. Forgetting how to coach in the second half of ALMOST EVERY GAME IN 2011 is unforgivable. Facing better teams and starting a QB that wasn't even close to ready against Auburn when our real QB was out is forgivable. Now if we keep Spav as OC then THAT could be the most unforgivable thing of all.

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You don't like Mike Sherman for 2011? At least he was competitive. His problem was he trusted his defense too much and needed a better pass rusher. Compare that to Kevin Sumlin who made all of the same mistakes this year that he made last year.
Wait until the end of the year to fix an obviously underperforming coordinator? Check.
Keep your QB in a game you're getting blown out in when he can't complete a decent pass to save his life? Check.
Give up multiple scores on offense and lose the game by that many points or fewer? Check.
Lose to a middle of the pack team because of ball security issues and lack of offensive production? Check. Get shutout because you can't make offensive adjustments and get the ball passed the 50? Check Thank God Myles made an amazing pick in field goal range


Even with KA's ****ed up shoulder, that doesn't excuse Ole Miss or Auburn or LSU. This team started out shaky but serviceable and finished looking like complete crap. It took another huge blowout and near shutout to force a QB change, and even then, it didn't happen until it was way, way too late to make a difference.

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What did Sumlin really do here besides play, JFF and Mike? Lose to LSU and Bama every single time in embarrassing fashion, made horrible decisions who to start, couldn't find a decent QB to save his life (Kyle against an 8-5 Auburn doesn't count), openly did not want to fire spav, and his poster boy JFF was not even his recruit. His only good year came when Auburn, Arkansas, Missouri, and Ole Miss were down and JFF willed the offense into being good enough to take down Florida/LSU/Alabama. He is not some elite coach.

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FIFY

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I can't believe Jarring Jay's post has over 200 blue stars. Sherman did some things right, but he did **** ton of things wrong too. For example, THE MOST amazing spotter and developer of talent EVAR did a horrible job with defensive recruiting, which is the biggest reason by far that our 2013 team, which featured one of the best offenses in college football history, didn't contend for a title (all that offense needed was a mediocre or hell even bad defense to contend, but instead they were shackled with an abominable one. We lost 2 games at home in which we score 40+ points).

Throw in his deficiencies as OC, his bizarre obsession with balance, his stubbornness in sticking with an injured Jerrod -- which cost us the Big 12 Title in 2010 by the way -- and the fact that he was the worst team morale and psyche manager in the history of sports, and I don't get this pining at all.

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I thought Snyder was the reason we lost.

Snyder didn't help things at all, but that 2013 fiasco was bigger than just him. He had a lack of talent, and then a lot of the players he did have were complete idiots who couldn't keep their crap together, as evidenced by the almost comical number of offseason arrests and suspensions (and I should add that they were mostly upperclassmen).

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Quit comparing coaches. Sherman was good at some things - OL recruiting and development being something he was OUTSTANDING at. And he was a good guy who represented the school well. He left the program in far better shape than he found it, and anyone who says otherwise is just wilfully blind.

Sumlin's a different kind of coach with different strengths. He deserves to be judged on his own merits. If he doesn't contend next year, he deserves to be fired too. That's just my opinion.

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The comparisons are really 'un-intelligent', we agree there.

For JJ, he creates his narrative which highlights selective parts of Sherman's tenure and then by omitting enough of what Sumlin has accomplished, he compares the two which is all to project his anger into the off season with a declaration: "Sumlin BETTER WIN 10 or HE"S FIRED".

He's angry and has been for weeks.

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Fair enough. I just get sick of all the overheated bashing of Sherman AND Sumlin. It's stupid.

Fran got 5 years. He had moral lapses (selling injury info in his newsletter) and did things like employing a personal PR flack to troll message boards. In my opinion he ws not honorable. And I don't think he put good talent on the field, nor was he well liked by some respected players such as Terrence Murphy.

So I feel like Sherman inherited a bad situation and improved things on a lot of fronts. Maybe his record was simply to Fran's. Maybe that would have changed if he'd gotten a 5th year like Fran. But he was fired for lack of results and it was understandable.

Jury is still out on Sumlin. He'll get his 5th year to prove himself, which seems right. Some things need to improve.

Why do ppl have to act like jackasses about these things?

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The 2011 collapse is just a fascinating subject.

oSu: were up 20-3 at half
arky: were up 35-17 at half
mizz: were up 28-17 at half
kst: were up 10 with 6 minutes left, dips*** passed the ball like a mofo
uta: were up 16-7 at half

Another fun fact about those games. We scored 7 points COMBINED in the 3rd quarter.

A dropped pass here and there is not the concern that season. The fact the above scenario happened 5 times is.

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That is quite a telling stat. No offensive production in the second half with a 1st round QB, two 1st round tackles, 2nd and 3rd round RBs, and two WRs that held most of the school's receiving records.

25 -> 32.8 -> 31.2 -> 39.1

44.5 -> 44.2 -> 35.2 -> 28.3

Guess what those are

There are obviously a growing number of people on this board that are developing 20/20 hindsight on the value of Mike Sherman and are finally starting to see the way he was slowly growing this program. Yes, there are still militant naysayers, also.

My opinion is that he would still be here if they had given him one more year. Coach Sherman was all substance but had no swag. He had character but no cool. He beat Texas in Austin and that is awfully hard to do.

The core of all great football teams is the offensive line. If your line can block you can move the ball. If you keep the ball the other team cannot score.

We did a bad thing treating Mike Sherman the way we did at the end. But he handled it the only way he knew: classy.

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25 -> 32.8 -> 31.2 -> 39.1

44.5 -> 44.2 -> 35.2 -> 28.3

Guess what those are

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Worthless stats obviously. Sherman didn't face SEC defenses every week. Who in the Big 12 would you even say had a decent to good defense? Texas? Sherman had all the offensive talent in the world and he laid an egg in 2011. Sumlin gets the majority of that team back and dominates with it. Sumlin would've had a much better record in the big 12 than sleepy. Sherman's improvement every year was marginal at best and when his offense did improve dramatically he killed it with his balance obsession and apparent lack of understanding on how to be a football coach.

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Sleepy Sherm's offense improved 14 points per game over 4 years. Rumlin may be playing SEC defenses, but he has regressed 16 points per game over 4 years. The point is the dy/dx, not a direct comparison. Are you seriously saying Rumlin is doing a better job because his offenses have steadily gotten worse? With Sherm's players, Rumlin could score 40+ per game on those might SEC defenses, but with his and his new and improved recruiting, 28 is the best we can do?

I stopped reading at "Rumlin". Stupid.

Sherm was a terrible college HC and not much of an NFL HC either. Sumlin is circling the drain and better have a rabbit in his hat or he will be flushed as well. Winning 2 SEC West games per year and laying eggs in big home games ain't gonna cut it.

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Solution to all our woes?

Sumlin, CEO Head Coach for recruiting
Sleepy Sherm, OL coach and Co-Offensive Coordinator
KK, QB coach and Co-offensive Coordinator, all play calling
Chief, Defense

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This

Sherman potbangers...

Learn to live in reality and quit putting on maroon-colored shades to look at the past. Sherman was never gonna take us anywhere.

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Sherman potbangers...

Learn to live in reality and quit putting on maroon-colored shades to look at the past. Sherman was never gonna take us anywhere.

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Probably not, but we'll never know. At least Sherm showed improvement over his four years, though. After year 1, Sumlin has gotten progressively worse in almost every way possible.

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Sherman potbangers...

Learn to live in reality and quit putting on maroon-colored shades to look at the past. Sherman was never gonna take us anywhere.

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Probably not, but we'll never know. At least Sherm showed improvement over his four years, though. After year 1, Sumlin has gotten progressively worse in almost every way possible.

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Accept for the fact that he hasn't?

Win total hasn't gotten worse.

Defense hasn't gotten worse.

Special Teams hasn't gotten worse.

He's gotten worse in exactly one way possible. Offense. That has a lot to do with talent pipeline. We'll see if it improves next year, as it should.

ABATT is from '11, his legacy of Texas A&M football is Mike Sherman.

It collapsed with Tucker's FG. He was angry, he is still angry.

The anger is obfuscates his objectivity, which is why 'everything is bad'.

How much can be developed in 1 year?

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Sherman potbangers...

Learn to live in reality and quit putting on maroon-colored shades to look at the past. Sherman was never gonna take us anywhere.

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Probably not, but we'll never know. At least Sherm showed improvement over his four years, though. After year 1, Sumlin has gotten progressively worse in almost every way possible.

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When you start out at the bottom, you can show improvement a whole heck of a lot easier than when you start out near the top.Sherman took a struggling program and took it down even further to hit rock bottom.

Sumlin is on a downward trend offensively and it's extremely concerning, but lets see where he will be in year 5. That's the first year Shermans team was poised to be really good, and it took another coach to get it there.

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Sherman potbangers...

Learn to live in reality and quit putting on maroon-colored shades to look at the past. Sherman was never gonna take us anywhere.

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Probably not, but we'll never know. At least Sherm showed improvement over his four years, though. After year 1, Sumlin has gotten progressively worse in almost every way possible.

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In 4 years Sherman had one...ONE season over 0.500. Lost both bowls he coached. Dramatic second half collapses in most of his conference loses. A year 4 of 6-6 and 4-5 conference record (T-6th) isn't exactly what I would consider improvement by any stretch, although he set the bar pretty low in his first 2 years which to build 'improvement' on. FWIW, Fran was 32-28 while Sleepy was 26-25 (not including post-firing bowls neither one coached in). This is improvement?

Sleepy Sherm was a good evaluator of talent and great OL coach. But one of the worst gameday (esp 2nd half) coaches we've had here in decades. Some are better served as coordinators rather than head coaches.

While Sumlin's Y1 was a bit of a lighting in a bottle, note that Bama was about 10 yards and a pick from snagging a come-from-behind game from our marquee SEC win. That said, years 2-4 at 9,8,8 wins respectively aren't much of a slide - a 1-game difference between Y2 & Y3 and this year has a chance to better 2014 at 9 wins. That's a pretty straight statistical line. Not where we should be for sure, but I wouldn't call that progressively worse. 8-9 wins through the 4th year of new leadership are a good foundation to build on.

That said, the offensive problems are pretty worrisome (stating the obvious I know). If Spav isn't gone or reassigned and OL improved quickly, there could absolutely be a precipitous dropoff in the next few years. Sumlin - you need to do what is best for your job and quit coddling your too inexperienced, index card flipping, make-believe protege.

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And he sure as s*** wouldn't have hired a 29 year old kid who had never been an OC and called plays to be an OC in the SEC, 3 years removed from being a graduate assistant!

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Most underrated part of your post.