Says that he agrees that reducing the sanctions on Penn State was appropriate. All of the people involved are gone.

WTF is wrong with people? Bad form Kirk. Of all the scenarios to reduce sanctions, this isn't one of them.

Soooo you should punish those that weren't there? That makes sense...

There are plenty of instances where people involved in pay-to-play are gone from an institution where sanctions aren't lifted. I would say child sex abuse is a bit more important to stand firm on. So yeah, I believe it makes sense.

Nm.

The NCAA always punishes the ones left behind. See Reggie Bush/ USC

Why should pedo U be different? Their culture allowed this to go on for years. Years! Winning was more important than addressing the issue.

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Says that he agrees that reducing the sanctions on Penn State was appropriate. All of the people involved are gone.

WTF is wrong with people? Bad form Kirk. Of all the scenarios to reduce sanctions, this isn't one of them.

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Penn State has paid for there crimes, and will literally pay for them.

No use effecting people who had nothing to do with it.

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Soooo you should punish those that weren't there? That makes sense...

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Everyone at Penn State went there knowing the sanctions were in place. They chose to go there anyway. Using this logic no program would ever face any consequences, just cheat all you want and clean house when you are caught.

Acting like Paterno wasn't the emperor of the Penn State program for fifty years. He died too soon. Paterno deserved to live to see the sanctions. If he were still alive, I'd wager the NCAA wouldn't have backed down as fast.

And Penn State should have gotten the death penalty in the first place. Few other acts signal "lack of institutional control" than the administration's active participation in a criminal enterprise.

But as Cyndi Lauper sang, "Money changes everything." Penn State was just too big to fail.

The people who were involved shouldn't be the only ones punished. The institution that supported those involved need to be punished as well. It happened under the noses of the institution as a whole. This whole idea of not punishing those not involved is an excuse to excuse the institions (entity). Companies aren't absolved from crimes when/if they fire those responsible for crimes. This whole idea of absolving the institution is ridiculous.

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No use effecting people who had nothing to do with it.

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I think the NCAA should only be able to punish for rules that are specifically enumerated in some NCAA rulebook somewhere. I highly doubt the NCAA thought to put a "thou shall not sodomize children in your showers" rule. Therefore the NCAA should be powerless to do anything in this case. This should be a criminal and civil matter. Dudes are (and should be in jail). The university should get it's ass sued off for the tune of many millions of dollars as should the people in charge who looked the other way.

NCAA shouldn't be some sort of justice police. If a player commits genocide someday, the NCAA shouldn't say "damn... that is screwed up.. you know what? We should punish the school because they started that kid for so many years." If we let the NCAA start issuing punishments for whatever reason they see fit, then it will become corrupt as hell.

Is it normal to release sanctions mid-year too? Timing of all this is a little suspect in my opinion

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The people who were involved shouldn't be the only ones punished. The institution that supported those involved need to be punished as well. It happened under the noses of the institution as a whole. This whole idea of not punishing those not involved is an excuse to excuse the institions (entity). Companies aren't absolved from crimes when/if they fire those responsible for crimes. This whole idea of absolving the institution is ridiculous.

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If this is the reason given by the ncaa, expect to see lawsuits when the next sanctions come down, the university cleans house, and sanctions aren't lifted. Ncaa just digging their own grave.

The argument at the time was the school created a culture that protected this thing. Seems to me the people who created the culture are still there.

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Acting like Paterno wasn't the emperor of the Penn State program for fifty years. He died too soon. Paterno deserved to live to see the sanctions. If he were still alive, I'd wager the NCAA wouldn't have backed down as fast.

And Penn State should have gotten the death penalty in the first place. Few other acts signal "lack of institutional control" than the administration's active participation in a criminal enterprise.

But as Cyndi Lauper sang, "Money changes everything." Penn State was just too big to fail.

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The people who were involved shouldn't be the only ones punished. The institution that supported those involved need to be punished as well. It happened under the noses of the institution as a whole. This whole idea of not punishing those not involved is an excuse to excuse the institions (entity). Companies aren't absolved from crimes when/if they fire those responsible for crimes. This whole idea of absolving the institution is ridiculous.

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This thought is not only ridiculous but very mean spirited as we'll.

It was stupid to punish the university. Pay for play and other crap like that is cheating in order to gain an advantage on the field, so you punish them in that same arena.

What happened at PSU was a criminal act that had nothing to do with football and those that were criminally negligent were punished.

This is a unique case in that the cover-up was to avoid damage, i.e.recruiting, rather to gain an advantage. The end result was the same in my opinion.

So moving forward institutions can just fire everyone involved with a given mess and just claim that everyone involved is gone?

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It was stupid to punish the university. Pay for play and other crap like that is cheating in order to gain an advantage on the field, so you punish them in that same arena.

What happened at PSU was a criminal act that had nothing to do with football and those that were criminally negligent were punished.

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This. The NCAA overstepped its bounds to begin with.

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So moving forward institutions can just fire everyone involved with a given mess and just claim that everyone involved is gone?

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This same situation will never happen again.

Not all things should be judged from an aspect of whether or not the act provided a competitive advantage. From a humane aspect, everyone of us should be willing to "overstep our bounds" in this particular case to send the message that violence/abuse against children will not be tolerated in any way. That said. I don't believe the NCAA overstepped their bounds anyways... they have bylaws that require participating members to exhibit high moral caliber. I think this falls in line with this.

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It was stupid to punish the university. Pay for play and other crap like that is cheating in order to gain an advantage on the field, so you punish them in that same arena.

What happened at PSU was a criminal act that had nothing to do with football and those that were criminally negligent were punished.

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It was all about football! If football was not "All Important" at Penn State, they would have never tried to cover up all the horrible stuff that happened and Sandusky would have been busted in the beginning, thus preventing the abuse of many kids.....Penn State did not do the right thing because they valued the image of their football program more than the kids being molested....they should have received the death penalty.

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So moving forward institutions can just fire everyone involved with a given mess and just claim that everyone involved is gone?

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This same situation will never happen again.

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As I said.....this was a unique case. The NCAA aspect, separate from the original criminal act, is what I'm talking about. Answer me this - why was everyone unwilling to come forward and get the police involved?

Clear case of institutional culpability. They treat it like an individual crime.

It's all about the lawsuit

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Clear case of institutional culpability. They treat it like an individual crime.

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Exactly! If AT LEAST an assistant coach, the head coach, AD, and school president can't be held up to the standard of 'lack of institutional control' then that has no meaning whatsoever.

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Answer me this - why was everyone unwilling to come forward and get the police involved?

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This is the most important question that links the crime to football.....and the answer is they didn't want to tarnish the reputation of their football program or their legendary football coach.

Kirk is alsolutely right. Everyone involved with the issues that brought on the sanctions are gone.

Why would you support limiting the opportunities for the kids out there playing now because some pervert years ago?

Makes no since to support that...

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Is it normal to release sanctions mid-year too? Timing of all this is a little suspect in my opinion

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. They owed a judge a response on one of the lawsuits that day .

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Kirk is alsolutely right. Everyone involved with the issues that brought on the sanctions are gone.

Why would you support limiting the opportunities for the kids out there playing now because some pervert years ago?

Makes now since to support that...

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Last time I checked, a university was a place of adult research, adult education and adult attendance. They are young adults... not kids. The only kids involved here are the ones that were abused.

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Kirk is alsolutely right. Everyone involved with the issues that brought on the sanctions are gone.

Why would you support limiting the opportunities for the kids out there playing now because some pervert years ago?

Makes no since to support that...

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Please answer the NCAA/football related questions or counter the cover-up aspects.

With those very high placed university officials (the highest) involved how was this not a case of lack of institutional control?

Should have received the death penalty for a year. From the outset, the entire institution was looking the other way and the majority of them remained in denial until the bitter end. That goes for the administration, students, and alumni. Even now many of them are in denial. **** them, **** their fans, and **** their program.

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Kirk is alsolutely right. Everyone involved with the issues that brought on the sanctions are gone.

Why would you support limiting the opportunities for the kids out there playing now because some pervert years ago?

Makes no since to support that...

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This argument makes no sense, because the players at the time of the sanctions had the opportunity to transfer without restrictions....and any kids who chose to attend PSU after the sanctions knew about the sanctions.