Saw the movie last night and it was incredible! I think the thing that stood out to me was the sound. Probably one of the loudest movies I've ever been to. The sound of the Spitfires and especially the Stukas was spectacular!

ReloadAg said:

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Saw the movie last night and it was incredible! I think the thing that stood out to me was the sound. Probably one of the loudest movies I've ever been to. The sound of the Spitfires and especially the Stukas was spectacular!

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The Spit is arguably the most beautiful plane ever built and the sound is as unique as a Harley. The Merlin engine might be the greatest piston aircraft engine ever built. If you've ever been around one , like at an airshow, you can hear a Spit and know its a Spitfire well before you see it. Wonderful plane. They also captured the unmistakable sound of the Stuka's "Jericho trumpet" which were actual noise makers attached to the leading edge of the gull wings strictly to make that noise. If was a terrifying sound that really did the trick.

The Original AG 76 said:

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ReloadAg said:

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Saw the movie last night and it was incredible! I think the thing that stood out to me was the sound. Probably one of the loudest movies I've ever been to. The sound of the Spitfires and especially the Stukas was spectacular!

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The Spit is arguably the most beautiful plane ever built and the sound is as unique as a Harley. The Merlin engine is the greatest piston aircraft engine ever built. If you've ever been around one , like at an airshow, you can hear a Spit and know its a Spitfire well before you see it. Wonderful plane. They also captured the unmistakable sound of the Stuka's "Jericho trumpet" which were actual noise makers attached to the leading edge of the gull wings strictly to make that noise. If was a terrifying sound that really did the trick.

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lemme fix that for ya

Haven't seen it yet, might tonight.

The sound effects were terrific but they put that terrible buzzing soundtrack with it to ratchet up the tension when it was totally unecessary, IMO.

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The Merlin engine might be the greatest piston aircraft engine ever built.

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No question!

BTW, for years I had assumed that RR named the Merlin after the wizard of Arthurian legend. Actually, it's named after a small falcon ...

Spits vs. Stukas in The Battle of Britain (1969)

"It's like shooting rats in a barrel!"

Seeing the Spits peel off and dive gives me cold chills every time ...

BrazosBendHorn said:

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Spits vs. Stukas in The Battle of Britain (1969)

"It's like shooting rats in a barrel!"

Seeing the Spits peel off and dive gives me cold chills every time ...

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Battle , Sink the Bismark and Midway MAY be my Holy Trinity of war movies. Add in the soundtrack from Battle of the Bulge ( not the movie) and that would be my "stuck on a desert isle" cache of films..

example

The movie Battle of Britain opens with scenes of Dunkirk. And it has one of the best war movie themes out there. Not to mention the warbirds. Oh my goodness, all the WWII aircraft.

CanyonAg77 said:

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The movie Battle of Britain opens with scenes of Dunkirk. And it has one of the best war movie themes out there. Not to mention the warbirds. Oh my goodness, all the WWII aircraft.

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I can watch that opening over and over...The Luftwaffe March is some of the greatest military music ever..

I saw the film last weekend and thought it was great and will likely win the best picture. However, if one is looking for a documentary style historical fiction or a strong lead shoot'em up, you will possibly be disappointed and not agree with my assessment.

I thought it was great for essentially three reasons.

First, the conflict is really not "good guys v. the bad guys"; instead the conflict is survival v. duty. Similar to Hemingway's For Whom the Bell Tolls (which is really not about the Spanish Civil War).

Second, all of the ground troops looked alike. Same hair, clothes, skin tone, etc. I remember being in Basic Training and realizing that, at the moment, I was just a number. A small cog in a huge machine and an expendable cog at that. This movie did an excellent job of making this point without ramming it down your throat.

Third, the use of time and perspective was extremely well done. I would like to re-watch the movie to see if I can catch any of the vignettes that I missed the first time, but saw later in the film from another perspective.

Just my thoughts. There is no disputing tastes!

BrazosBendHorn said:

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I saw the movie last weekend and generally agree with Tee's comments.

My only criticism [SPOILER ALERT]









concerns the Spitfire at the end, in regard to how long he could stay airborne at low altitude after running out of fuel (and he managed to down a Stuka that was in a dive, too. Nice deflection shooting). At that point, I thought maybe he was going to glide all the way back to Britain ...

But for all that, that sequence was beautiful to watch, what with the deadstick landing on the beach ...

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that sequence was beautiful BUT it did ruin the flick a bit for me. A Spit is NOT a glider even with those huge wings. In fact it is extremely nose heavy..like all WW2 fighters it is a MASSIVE LOOOOONG heavy engine with wings and guns. Damn near al of the weight was forward of the cockpit. I thought that we would soon see it gliding past Big Bend at any moment. And shooting down the Stutka...well...totally impossible.

AND For what its worth..I hated the time sequencing. I hate the overuse of flashbacks that have become the mode du jour I Hollywood lately. Give me a good continuous timeline with , perhaps a few quick flashbacks and I'm happy. This one was way over the top.

BrazosBendHorn said:

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I saw the movie last weekend and generally agree with Tee's comments.

My only criticism [SPOILER ALERT]









concerns the Spitfire at the end, in regard to how long he could stay airborne at low altitude after running out of fuel (and he managed to down a Stuka that was in a dive, too. Nice deflection shooting). At that point, I thought maybe he was going to glide all the way back to Britain ...

But for all that, that sequence was beautiful to watch, what with the deadstick landing on the beach ...

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Another SPOILER ALERT




Wasn't going to mention it but since others have, the whole sequence of events concerting the Spitfire running out of fuel bothered me. I didn't know as some of you do that it would not glide for a long time. But the shooting down of the German plane (I thought it was a Messerschmitt 109) was pretty unrealistic being out of fuel and all. Then he glided, and glided, and glided away from the good guys, to the point he landed where the Germans were. Why? And the plane was out of fuel and he uses a flare gun it looked like and pretty shortly it was engulfed in flames. I suppose he could have shot it into the fuel tank and ignited vapors, don't know about that though.

Haven't seen the movie, but assume a 10:1 glide ratio, which is reasonable. Plane runs out of gas at 1000 feet, means it could go forward 10x the height, 10,000 feet, so nearly two miles. At 120mph, that's a full minute. Multiply that ty however many 1000 feet up he was.

I noticed the scene that is of some concern (the glide scene). On the one hand, the incredible (in essence, not credible) sequences distract from the narrative. On the other hand, don't lose the point: landing on the beach is the culmination of the duty v. survival conflict by the character who exemplifies duty (in addition to the father/small boat captain). To focus on the not credible may be akin to trying to determine the air speed velocity of a coconut laden swallow (African or European).

Tee said:

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I noticed the scene that is of some concern (the glide scene). On the one hand, the incredible (in essence, not credible) sequences distract from the narrative. On the other hand, don't lose the point: landing on the beach is the culmination of the duty v. survival conflict by the character who exemplifies duty (in addition to the father/small boat captain). To focus on the not credible may be akin to trying to determine the air speed velocity of a coconut laden swallow (African or European).

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and for your viewing pleasure this morning.....

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On the other hand, don't lose the point: landing on the beach is the culmination of the duty v. survival conflict by the character who exemplifies duty (in addition to the father/small boat captain). To focus on the not credible may be akin to trying to determine the air speed velocity of a coconut laden swallow (African or European).

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I agree with your observation regarding the choice of duty/survival on the part of the Spitfire pilot and his selected course of action which results in landing upon the very beach that his countrymen are trying to escape. It makes for an excellent end of the movie. Beautiful cinematography.

Nonetheless, I can't help but quibble about the gliding business. It's my nature. btw, firing those Browning machines guns at the Stuka likely would have reduced his airspeed (Newton's law, you know). Maybe not by much, but even a little loss of airspeed is a big deal when you're trying to stretch out a glide.

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btw, firing those Browning machines guns at the Stuka likely would have reduced his airspeed (Newton's law, you know). Maybe not by much, but even a little loss of airspeed is a big deal when you're trying to stretch out a glide.

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Infinitesimal amount. Consider the mass of the bullets (maybe a pound) vs. the several thousand pound mass of the plane.

Enjoyed the movie, but it needs subtitles so I can understand what the Limeys are saying.

The gliding bothered me less than the unlimited supply of browning ammo he had without ever changing guns to the 20MM, especially given his egregious deflection shooting in the early part of the film. Forget killing the Stuka in a glide, he should have run out of ammo long before that.

BQ78 said:

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The gliding bothered me less than the unlimited supply of browning ammo he had without ever changing guns to the 20MM, especially given his egregious deflection shooting in the early part of the film. Forget killing the Stuka in a glide, he should have run out of ammo long before that.

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A normal load for a Spite is about 11-12 SECONDS of continuous fire. Pilots fired extremely short bursts in order to conserve ammo. I would like to watch again count up the seconds of fire. BUT the time line is so chopped up I don't think it is possible to count.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Haven't seen the movie, but assume a 10:1 glide ratio, which is reasonable. Plane runs out of gas at 1000 feet, means it could go forward 10x the height, 10,000 feet, so nearly two miles. At 120mph, that's a full minute. Multiply that ty however many 1000 feet up he was.

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I'm not a super aviator or anything but... I do live on a beach in Australia so I know a thing or two about beaches

Spoiler alert to follow
Dude is maybe 2000 feet elevation when he shoots down the final plane. Then, he is headed in one direction with probably enough elevation to bail out. I'm not airborne or anything and the pilot appears to be going really fast let's say. But, he is out of fuel. So, he's in a heavy glider at that point.

It looks like he could bail out somewhere in the French harbor. Then, the next thing you know, he's turned around and headed in the other direction maybe 200 - 500 feet off the deck. And he eventually sets down probably two miles away from where he's like 200-500 feet off the deck.

The real hang up I had was the fact that he changed directions while he's out of gas.

You can still maneuver while dead stick flying. It will cost you altitude, which compounds the whole how far did he glide question.

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Enjoyed the movie, but it needs subtitles so I can understand what the Limeys are saying.

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I had the same problem with the Harry Potter movies ...

Saw it tonight at IMAX. Great movie! My 13 year old son really liked it too.

My criticism: The timeline jumped around too much.

Some scenes were really hard to watch, but overall a great movie.

the sounds inside the boat were terrifying!

as far as the spitfire gliding and being able to shoot the plane - I wonder what his "beginning airspeed" at the time of loss of thrust was compared to stall speed. there may be some slowdown time to account for there too.

but yea, that was a like a 10 minute glide!



Side note - if you guys ever want to see some warbirds and are in the Northeast Texas area, you should drop by Mid-America Flight Museum. They have a P-51, Corsair, C-47, B-25, Albatross, Constellation (a couple others like it - cant remember their names), a Waco, a Birddog, T-6, many more. All flyable.

here is their facebook: Mid America Flight Museum Photos
their website is down for some reason, but most of the planes in those pictures are a part of the museum.

No Spitfires though....

The stall speed on a Spit is amazingly low for a high performance aircraft - 65 knots (75mph). I have a few hours in a high performance civilian plane, the Bellanca Viking. It stalls at 61knots (70mph).

I am glad you guys liked it. It was ok, I think it was really a lost opportunity though in so many ways.

The flight scenes were just flat dull. Real ww2 footage is riveting, but these guys were just not flying hard at all

The beach Stuka scenes were somewhat absurd. Even the small 100kg bombs make a HELL of a lot more bang than that. It their limited small scale attacks though seemed consistent with the historically theorized deliberate nazi allowance of the British escape.

Some of the scenes were pretty cool, and I like the way the movie circled back on itself, but overall a lot of undeveloped plot lines as well.

For such a promising story it will not be considered a memorable ww2 flick, unfortunately.

I'd like to hear thoughts on the theory, if true long kept top secret, that HESS flew to England on may 10, to have a Pre arranged meeting with a group of British leaders to over rule Churchill and end the war against Germany. Hitler allowed the British escape at Dunkirk just two weeks later, as goodwill in the hopes of HESS' basic mission goals succeeding, even though he was detained and the mission foiled.