TikkaShooter said:

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Literally only in America does having a second kid mean "I need the largest gas hungry vehicle on the road k thanks "

It's amazing traveling the world and seeing families of 4 and 5 do it without the Yukon/Burb/Hoe etc

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i used to cringe everytime I'd see a family of 4 in Bangalore on a two-wheeler. Especially when the mom was riding side saddle.

CanyonAg77 said:

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My wife and I are just anti-minivan

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Why?

This has always been a weird reaction to me. Why rule put the best option because of some odd prejudice? Do folks in your generation equate it to being old?

I was reluctant to get the one we had, but even an 2001 Oddy drove and rode better than any Suburban, costs less to buy and drive, and lasted longer. More space and overall utility. The new ones with all the bells and whistles have got to be 10x better than that.

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I think you look at it through the wrong lens. I rule out a minivan because it can't tow. And on top of that it has an embellished payload capacity to compete with a half ton SUV, only you're on a unibody, front wheel drive, tall car. Who wants to drive anything front wheel drive? It sucks, especially now that most minivans and front wheel drive cars have great engines. Torque steer sucks and taking off on a slick road is frustrating.

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I think you look at it through the wrong lens.

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You don't want one for specific reasons.

OP simply said they are anti-minivan. Which implies to me that one would work for them, but they will not consider one.

If you don't plan to tow or do any significant "off road" driving, you probably don't NEED a Expy or Tahoe.

Honestly, the larger 3-row CUVs are great family cars. Pathfinder, Pilot, Telluride, Palisade, Ascent, Atlas, etc. Go sit in them. They generally have different ergonomics and 3rd row space, so you'll just need to see which ones fit your unique needs.

The Kia Carnival is a minivan, but it is styled more like a MPV. Definitely doesn't give off the same vibe as, say, an Odyssey.

As mentioned in this thread, none of these will have a ton of usable space with 3rd row up. If you have a double stroller, it's not fitting back there. You could stack things up, but they would have to be single stroller or pack n play width, and you'll run out of space quickly. Hitch racks help extend this for the few times you need the additional payload space.

It's really going to come down to how much space and capability you need for the few times you will be maxing it out with people and gear. If you can find a cost effective temporary solution for that small % of time, then get what fits your majority needs that's in your budget.

Can't speak for the new gen GM products but the expedition max is fantastic.

Family of 4 with two car seats in captains chair second row. All luggage plus large size dog kennel assembled with dog in the third/row trunk. Plus space to spare. Ground clearance and towing capacity when needed (which I do need). Third row is comfortable for adults for a couple hours.

Don't bother with the Tahoe/Yukon/expy if you want trunk space. Get the long versions. You get Trunk space with the third row up.

vmiaptetr said:

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ElephantRider said:

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Jesus you need a Suburban for two kids?

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Tell me the difference from how you packed for a trip vs. how you packed once you got married vs. how you packed once you're married w/ kids. Those bags don't increase at a constant rate. It's exponential.

This man needs a suburban and an enclosed trailer.

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Currently on a week vacation in Florida. 2 adults, 3 kids, a week's worth of luggage = 4 suitcases,1 Nike bag, 2 coolers, 5 bag chairs, 3 body boards, 2 backpacks, 1 artic bag, 1 beach bag and food. All in 2018 4runner third row. I bought a hitch cargo carrier but didn't even mount it.
I'm simply amazed by the number of tahoes and surburbans down here with hitch cargo carriers on them. I guess some people just like to take a lot of crap with them.

Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:

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Yep, few thirds rows will fit. 6 foot tall adult in the third comfortably , suburban(Yukonxl), expy or the wagoneer. That's pretty much it

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We rented a couple suburbans for a bachelor party earlier this year. I wouldn't say the third row was comfortable by any means. I mean we fit, but we were hunched pretty decent. It was fine for the 10 minute ride wherever we were going but zero chance I'd ride back there on any kind of road trip.

htxag09 said:

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Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:

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Yep, few thirds rows will fit. 6 foot tall adult in the third comfortably , suburban(Yukonxl), expy or the wagoneer. That's pretty much it

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We rented a couple suburbans for a bachelor party earlier this year. I wouldn't say the third row was comfortable by any means. I mean we fit, but we were hunched pretty decent. It was fine for the 10 minute ride wherever we were going but zero chance I'd ride back there on any kind of road trip.

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The expy max I fit very comfortably in the back 6 foot tall adult. The second row captains chairs can slide forward giving the back row a lot of room.

The problem with the Expedition is that it is a Ford, and Ford is a POS company that either openly lies or is incapable of communicating with its customers in general.

Openly lies?

Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:

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Openly lies?

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Yep. In my case, with regard to the status of a Bronco on order that was left on the lot in the snow in Michigan for four months after being built and then deemed irreparably damaged and sent to the scrapyard. Will never look at another Ford after my experience with them.

I'm between Expedition and Yukon and with current used market being so high debating between new and used.

New expedition would be nice since new body style but tempted to just get a '18-20 with good chunk of miles on it. I work from home and only out 8-10k miles a year on my car.

With people needing street legal freight trains for a family of 4, I don't know how the Excursion was discontinued - massive room even behind 3rd seat, could tow over 10K from the factory.

I've had a pickup truck, an Excursion, a 3/4 ton Suburban - all because I just had one vehicle for myself and had travel trailers to tow at the time. They towed well, but are just miserable to live with on a daily basis - for me, just my opinion obviously. Massive, unwieldy, inefficient, only fun/nice to drive when towing or going down a straight highway. I figured out I can have two vehicles or more if I shop well and shop used, one for big family trip needs or towing and then one for driving the 90% of days I don't need something massive or a building on wheels to tow with.

I don't know why the ego comment was considered an insult, I often tout how a minivan is the perfect family vehicle if you have multiple young kids or older grandparents needing easy access and you take longer trips - without the need to tow anything. I'm an engineer and I appreciate that they are the swiss army knife of vehicles and do it all comfortably and with reasonable efficiency. However, I would never drive one daily myself due to ego, no 2 ways about it. I was able to convince my wife it was the way to go and she went along with it - for a few years anyway.

William Larue Weller said:

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Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:

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Openly lies?

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Yep. In my case, with regard to the status of a Bronco on order that was left on the lot in the snow in Michigan for four months after being built and then deemed irreparably damaged and sent to the scrapyard. Will never look at another Ford after my experience with them.

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Did they lie about it being in the snow? Did they lie about the status? I mean I get being frustrated but it sounds like every other supply chain bulk**** since covid

He's got a long thread on this board about it.

I can't wait to see the Harvard Business Review Case Study on the Ford Bronco launch.

Complete Idiot said:

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With people needing street legal freight trains for a family of 4, I don't know how the Excursion was discontinued - massive room even behind 3rd seat, could tow over 10K from the factory.

I've had a pickup truck, an Excursion, a 3/4 ton Suburban - all because I just had one vehicle for myself and had travel trailers to tow at the time. They towed well, but are just miserable to live with on a daily basis - for me, just my opinion obviously. Massive, unwieldy, inefficient, only fun/nice to drive when towing or going down a straight highway. I figured out I can have two vehicles or more if I shop well and shop used, one for big family trip needs or towing and then one for driving the 90% of days I don't need something massive or a building on wheels to tow with.

I don't know why the ego comment was considered an insult, I often tout how a minivan is the perfect family vehicle if you have multiple young kids or older grandparents needing easy access and you take longer trips - without the need to tow anything. I'm an engineer and I appreciate that they are the swiss army knife of vehicles and do it all comfortably and with reasonable efficiency. However, I would never drive one daily myself due to ego, no 2 ways about it. I was able to convince my wife it was the way to go and she went along with it - for a few years anyway.

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You know absolutely NOTHING about a person, yet you label them as having an ego due to their preference of an SUV over a minivan? Perhaps there are other factors I hadn't mentioned, but I didn't realize I had to initially list them all out to defend myself.

If you want a large SUV, I can say we have enjoyed our Escalade ESV. Three teenagers pack in it just fine and it rides smoothly down the highway on our long road trips. It handled the dirt roads of the Colorado mountains just fine as well. The 6.2L has plenty of power and the missus likes driving it around town as well.

TikkaShooter said:

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Literally only in America does having a second kid mean "I need the largest gas hungry vehicle on the road k thanks "

It's amazing traveling the world and seeing families of 4 and 5 do it without the Yukon/Burb/Hoe etc

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We would go from the valley to Arkansas in 4 door sedan with 6 of us. Four boys! No air either. But that was the day when Dads could pull over and whip your ass on the side of the road. We didn't whine much because of that.
But alas, daughter has Lexus 460 and third seat is useless. I've told her to get minivan while your kids are oblivious to coolness. Then get cool looking suv when they are older.

We just bought a new Denali shortie
but my only kid in the house is 11, so it's plenty of room for us 3. I'm too cool,I mean old, for a minivan although I've owned probably 5 of them. I would get a suburban, yukon XL, or denali XL. You can't order a 2022 anymore and the 2023 order bank opens in Sept or
October and the prices will be higher. It took 6 months to get the denali we ordered.

I just don't care for Expeditions and Navigators mainly because their resale is not good, and Ford.

Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:

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William Larue Weller said:

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Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:

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Openly lies?

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Yep. In my case, with regard to the status of a Bronco on order that was left on the lot in the snow in Michigan for four months after being built and then deemed irreparably damaged and sent to the scrapyard. Will never look at another Ford after my experience with them.

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Did they lie about it being in the snow? Did they lie about the status? I mean I get being frustrated but it sounds like every other supply chain bulk**** since covid

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They lied about the status multiple times.

I have two in car seats in the middle row of my 200 series land cruiser. And I have seen 3 car/booster seats on the same row in another 200 series in person. I have the third row removed for more cargo room. When we travel, our two large dogs get the back and kids & toys/books/snacks get the middle. All our luggage goes in a roof box. If needed, cooler goes on a hitch basket.

We don't travel that often like this so the extra pain of the roof box and basket aren't that big of a deal. But it is an excellent vehicle for the other 97% of the driving I do. Just pointing out that you might be OK without a giant breeder barge for almost all your daily driving and just add a couple accessories to make road trips manageable.

Agreed but a Tahoe isn't much bigger than a LC.

He also said he needs a third row to actually sit people.

When we were car searching 7 months ago we looked at every mid-size SUV with a third row… we liked the Pallisade and new JGC- Ls.

But, ultimately, if wanting to haul 5 people, skis, coolers. Tow a trailer or boat. Or carry 7 people plus a few things, nothing was going to comfortably work other than moving up to the bigger SUVs.

I get some people just saying Eff it, and pay the extra 3k for a suburban vs a Tahoe.

We just hauled 6 people, 2 small dogs, luggage, golf clubs, coolers, and camping chairs 800 miles to Colorado. Needed a box on top and a hitch carrier for the kennels and cooler.

There's no way that was happening in a Pallisade.

I fully understand some people like driving huge trucks and SUV's daily, even if typically the only person in the vehicle, but for others who would rather not drive the biggest thing every day just for the 2-20 days a year they need the big beasts there were some options provided in thread:

1) Rent a minivan, full size SUV, or full sized Van for those days you need more. Pros: Can drive something smaller and more efficient day to day, lower insurance maybe, lower fuel costs most likely (those 2 pros apply to all these options if you assume the smaller 3 row in less expensive to buy and insure and fuel than the larger full sized options) Cons: Is pretty pricey and you are out 100% of the rental money, no resale
2) Hitch carrier Pros: More room for goods, doesn't really impact MPG, typically doesn't block rearward view, can resell when done or transfer to multiple vehicles Cons: Can block tail lights, can block rear door access, some vehicles already full of people and stuff will sag with a few hundred pounds mounted that far rearward of the rear axle, need a waterproof bag maybe
3) Roof carrier: Pros: Sealed from elements, more room for goods, doesn't block rear door or lights, can resell when done or transfer to multiple vehicles Cons: Hard to access, affects MPG, watch out in garages or drive throughs
4) Buy a small trailer like this https://www.amazon.com/Hybrid-Trailer-Co-Vacationer-Spare/dp/B00CBKTJD6 Pros: lots of room compared to roof or hitch options, small and low profile won't impact mpg noticeably, no spring sagging, can transfer to multiple vehicles or resell Cons: Expensive, need to store it somewhere

Got a $2000 offer email from ford. Maybe this is the start (finally) of some demand supply equilibrium.