Thank you FLATOUT. I will reach out to you tomorrow.

Andy is a great dude.

I do a couple things that seem to help.

1. Bring a laptop to do my own amortization schedules (the benefit is less the math itself and more that now they know that I know how to do the math)

2. Ask a ton of questions to make sure everything is clear

3. Take detailed notes and have the sales guy sign them

4. Check out the dealer online before I go in

5. Look for excuses to leave, not reasons to stay

It's dorky but I end up with exactly the deal that I understood I was getting. I don't mind being a little dorky and tedious on a 5-figure transaction.

PharmD4 said:

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Andy is a great dude.

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I second this notion

mosdefn14 said:

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Similar here. I take my financial calculator and a note pad. PV, N, I, and PMT get written down & double checked before I agree to anything. I've walked out of a finance office when his didn't match mine to the penny. Manager was able to find some more discounts pretty quickly.

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I tried to buy a truck from Tomball Ford a while back and had a horrible experience doing this very thing. I pulled out my trusty HP-12 to doublecheck the numbers and discovered some significant errors. Finance guy took the position that his system couldn't be wrong and said I was trying to scam him using some rinky-dink calculator. We had some heated words so I walked out. Sales manager called me before I got out of the lot to apologize for the "misunderstanding" and ask how he could fix it. I told him that he had some greaseballs working for him and it would be a cold day in hell before I came back. He told me to f-off and hung up.

Bibendum 86 said:

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mosdefn14 said:

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Similar here. I take my financial calculator and a note pad. PV, N, I, and PMT get written down & double checked before I agree to anything. I've walked out of a finance office when his didn't match mine to the penny. Manager was able to find some more discounts pretty quickly.

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I tried to buy a truck from Tomball Ford a while back and had a horrible experience doing this very thing. I pulled out my trusty HP-12 to doublecheck the numbers and discovered some significant errors. Finance guy took the position that his system couldn't be wrong and said I was trying to scam him using some rinky-dink calculator. We had some heated words so I walked out. Sales manager called me before I got out of the lot to apologize for the "misunderstanding" and ask how he could fix it. I told him that he had some greaseballs working for him and it would be a cold day in hell before I came back. He told me to f-off and hung up.

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So he called with intents of making it right, and parted ways with "F off!"

Sounds genuine. I would not set foot in any dealership under the Keating group

To be honest, reverse polish notation and all I don't blame him. TI BA II+ might have given you a better result.

It's hilarious though how the finance guys don't understand how numbers come to be. "My system"...

mosdefn14 said:

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To be honest, reverse polish notation and all I don't blame him. TI BA II+ might have given you a better result.

It's hilarious though how the finance guys don't understand how numbers come to be. "My system"...

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If you ever want to cause somebody in my business to completely lost it, hide his HP-12. Although I think there's now an HP-12 app for iPhone.

lb3 said:

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Jack Cheese said:

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Rogue dealers like this that run fast and loose are bad for everyone and bad for other dealers. They need to be brushed back... HARD... and made to get their isht together.

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Direct sales is the future and it's dealers like this that are going to be the reason why. Dealers are going to turn into authorized service centers, parts counters, and pick-up locations for new vehicles with no salesmen on the premises.

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Good riddance to that scumbag profession.

I submit that the games/strategies of the service department are just as bad, and in some instances maybe even worse than new car sales.

fulshearAg96 said:

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I had a dealership screw me over. The GM wouldn't return my calls. I finally emailed him and Cc'ed AutoNation corporate, his competitors, the local news, and the NTSB. He called me 5 minutes later. I would jump on them quick, document it, and stay on them.

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Emailing the competition is brilliant. I never considered what a framed letter in the lobby of a competing dealership might mean.

Righteousgemstone said:

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Thank you FLATOUT. I will reach out to you tomorrow.

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Got your email and appreciate your time on the phone. I'll reach out to my counterpart and do everything I can to help.

- Andy

Texags, as always thanks for the kind words and for reaching out on Righteousgemstones behalf.

My old HP-11B served it purpose through college and several vehicle purchases. I know I had some sales guys off balance when I'm calculating before they can go through their "presentation".

I've always been a price, not payment guy.

I take my trusty TI-84 Plus with me to the dealership. My favorite is when they're like "hold on, let me calculate your payment". I pull out my calculator and challenge them to a race

kb2001 said:

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Texker said:

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I submit that the games/strategies of the service department are just as bad, and in some instances maybe even worse than new car sales.

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Agreed. Service reps work on commission, and some of them are just as shady as the finance office.

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Years ago we took my wife's Infiniti to the dealer to get the Nav updated w/a newer map.

As a 'courtesy' they looked it over to determine if any maintenance should be performed.

I'll never forget laughing at the guy and telling him he was out of his f'ing mind if he thought I was going to drop $7K on recommended 'repairs' to a meticulously maintained and perfectly running vehicle.

Drove it at least 7 more years after w/out incident.

Chewy said:

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In these instances are these rogue GMs trying to make numbers and cash or is there a wink wink from corporate this is okay and it should be done? I've heard of the same thing from Randall Reed in Houston.

I hope there's a special place in Hell for people that take advantage of the defenseless like children, old people, and puppies.

Ben Keating has quite the Wikipedia page with a list of all his dealerships for anyone that wants to steer clear based on the info in this thread.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Keating

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he has a wiki page, lol. y'all should edit it to mention his dealerships' questionable practices. i'd do it if i weren't on my office computer

Mas89 said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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Sounds like you need to hire a big fellow to break the GM's legs. I loathe people that prey on the elderly!

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Do they have large glass front windows at the dealership?

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aggiedent said:

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I just don't understand their business philosophy.

On one hand, you can treat people fair and square and make whatever percent profit. You will probably earn repeat business, referrals, and positive reviews.

Or you can cheat people out of a few hundred to a few thousand dollars, and get people so angry you get no repeat business, no referrals, and negative reviews.

As a business owner myself, I know which works far better in the long run. And you wonder why these dealerships are hated so badly.

As for destroying the etching, yes, that just took pettiness and unprofessionalism to a new level.

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as the proverb goes,, you can shear a sheep many times, but you can only skin him once.

is it kosher to link to texags as a reference on wikipedia?

07ag said:

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Chewy said:

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In these instances are these rogue GMs trying to make numbers and cash or is there a wink wink from corporate this is okay and it should be done? I've heard of the same thing from Randall Reed in Houston.

I hope there's a special place in Hell for people that take advantage of the defenseless like children, old people, and puppies.

Ben Keating has quite the Wikipedia page with a list of all his dealerships for anyone that wants to steer clear based on the info in this thread.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Keating

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he has a wiki page, lol. y'all should edit it to mention his dealerships' questionable practices. i'd do it if i weren't on my office computer

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some wiki user named Squeakachu just removed the list of dealerships he owns an hour ago.

Anyone got an archive page and can go add them all back in?

CDUB98 said:

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Anyone got an archive page and can go add them all back in?

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Someone went in there and undid it already

Oh this is getting good now...

don't piss off the Auto Board OR the Outdoors board.

now it's gone again

Annnnnd now someone has linked this thread on the Wiki article.

whoever Princeahmed01 is (who joined wiki 30min ago) is obviously goaltending for this loser