"False, deceptive and misleading" comes to mind. Use that phrase on them.

It makes me so mad to hear about this. I can't imagine my 80 year old parents, in laws or aunt and uncles buying a car. They constantly are getting scammed by rogue emails, door to door roof and driveway contractors, you name it. They are a stubborn generation for certain. I'm doing my best just to stop most of them from driving.

tandy miller said:

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Jack Cheese said:

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Mookie I think you're way closer than I am to the business. But I thought whether an electronic signature is accepted, whether an electronic document is accepted by the state and bank, and whether a paper copy must be provided to the consumer are three different things.

Providing a paper copy upon request was a federal requirement, I thought.

But I certainly defer to you.

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I only got a flash drive when I bought my taco in april

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I would not think that in itself would be a violation, but if you asked for paper copies my understanding is that they have to provide them. Furthermore, I think any smart dealership would ask before just assuming that a USB stick is acceptable.

The Aggie Code of Honor which Aggies recite by heart: 'Aggies do not lie, cheat or steal nor tolerate those that do' shows what goes to the heart of being an Aggie.

tandy miller said:

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Jack Cheese said:

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Mookie I think you're way closer than I am to the business. But I thought whether an electronic signature is accepted, whether an electronic document is accepted by the state and bank, and whether a paper copy must be provided to the consumer are three different things.

Providing a paper copy upon request was a federal requirement, I thought.

But I certainly defer to you.

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I only got a flash drive when I bought my taco in april

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The federal ESIGN Act is the relevant legislation that I was referring to. My reading is that even if the consumer consents to electronic signatures and copies (which I'm sure you did at some point among the dozens of docs you signed), that consent can be rescinded at any time, and the business is required to provide paper copies of the docs if requested.

The business can charge a fee for those docs. I do not believe they can just say "we don't do that" and shuffle 80 year olds out the door.

I'd absolutely lawyer up in OP's case. Rogue dealers like this that run fast and loose are bad for everyone and bad for other dealers. They need to be brushed back... HARD... and made to get their isht together.

I spent over a dozen years in the automotive industry. There is a small percentage of truly terrible people that give the huge percentage of good people working in the car business a bad name.

In approximately 2010 I had a mentally disabled person come in looking for a small pickup. After talking with her she had recently been to a Repo Joe sale at Atkinson Toyota in BCS. She was complaining about fuel mileage in her couple year old F150 supercrew and had gone in to trade it for a smaller extended cab pickup. Something that should of been accomplished easily as she owned the F150 outright. A few weeks later when I met her she was driving a 2005 Malibu and owed about 10k on it. From what I could gather from the contract it appears they took this disabled woman for about 25k.

I called the dealership, the State of Texas department of adult protective services, and everyone else I could think of with no luck helping the poor lady.

I'll never forget the salesman's name Joe French. If anyone ever runs across a Joe French working a circus sale make sure and cut off a hand for me.

The BBB actually has an alert out for the dealership. Found this:

CURRENT ALERTS FOR THIS BUSINESS
Pattern of Complaint:
Since January 2021, the BBB of Greater Houston & South Texas has received several complaints and customer reviews on Keating Toyota that exhibit the following pattern.
According to the consumer's disputes, it is being alleged that Keating Toyota advertises a low price online, but is higher once at the dealership. Consumers are reporting that the dealer add ons are being added during the financing phase without prior knowledge. Some consumers are reporting that they are unsuccessful in reaching the finance department to cancel warranties.

Class Action?


Its just the same crap they pulled with my parents. IMHO it is one thing to use high pressure sales to convince someone to buy something they don't need, but another to add it on without consent or prior knowledge. One is sleazy sales and one is theft. Not sure why that wouldn't be illegal? Theft by deception or some such.

Local news reporter is interested and meeting my dad on Monday.

Aggiepaintrain- don't have PM but trying to get that stuff canceled. Unsurprisingly, no one will answer or return calls or meet them when they showed up at the dealership. Had them send an email so that its in writing. Anything else they can do?

Show up at the dealer with a tv news crew!

Joe French is probably long dead from a meth overdose.

tlepoC said:

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I intentionally said things while waiting with the understanding this was likely going on. Ended up working out well.

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Had a car salesman leave his desk phone on conference when he went to speak with the head honcho about closing the deal. Wife and I spoke about leaving if he returned with some BS numbers. Wife said "Why wait lets go back to the Mazda place". As we got up the salesman magically returned with new numbers which were about where I wanted to be but the phone eavesdropping really stuck in my craw. We left anyway.

gemstone

print out all the paperwork and call the respective insurance companies and tell them you want to cancel and do it in writing, if they defer them back to the dealer, send certified letters with return receipt, also alert the lienholder that you want this done. The bank does not want any heat.

You can include the bank in your lawyer letter

Jack Cheese said:

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Rogue dealers like this that run fast and loose are bad for everyone and bad for other dealers. They need to be brushed back... HARD... and made to get their isht together.

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Direct sales is the future and it's dealers like this that are going to be the reason why. Dealers are going to turn into authorized service centers, parts counters, and pick-up locations for new vehicles with no salesmen on the premises.

mm98 said:

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lb3 said:

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Next car I buy I'm recording the entire transaction.

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You should. They are, especially in finance.

I'm also wary about microphones hidden in parts of the waiting areas. Last car I had to buy the sales rep made comments about a vacation we were taking to New Mexico for Soring Break that I hadn't mentioned to him. Only my wife in the waiting area.

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Microphones in the lobby sounds illegal if they aren't a party to the conversation.

Which will be wonderful. I am much more likely to upgrade vehicles more frequently if I don't have to deal with the dealer bs. As is, I avoid at all costs.

This might be the norm for Keating dealerships. He also owns Tomball Ford and Tomball Dodge.

I bought a truck where they changed the numbers to the tune of $2,300 in the business office. $500 to the price and $1800 in dealership add-ons, after I specifically asked and was assured there were no dealership add-ons. One of the things was engraved security numbers on the windows.

Had I not been hyper vigilant they would have got me. I was mad. They had the audacity to want to spilt the difference on the $1800. My counter was take off the whole $2300 and another $500 for trying to cheat me.

30 minutes later, after the finance guy returned from the manager, they agreed. Guess what, when I go to drive the truck home, I noticed they had scratched over the numbers on the windows.

Back inside for a major confrontation. They did not want to give me my check back until I threatened to call the police and show the police the vandalism.

Won't set foot in a Keating dealership ever again.

First of all I'm very sorry to hear about your situation.

I am an Aggie, the General Manager at College Station Hyundai, and know and work with the GM at Keating Toyota. I'm also a longtime personal friend of Ben's.

Please email me your contact info and I'll do whatever I can to assist you.

awheeler@collegestationhyundai.com

Thanks Ags for reaching out to me via IG to help.

- Andy

They just freaking scratched out the etching? Seriously?? Holy hell.

FLATOUT said:

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First of all I'm very sorry to hear about your situation.

I am an Aggie, the General Manager at College Station Hyundai, and know and work with the GM at Keating Toyota. I'm also a longtime personal friend of Ben's.

Please email me your contact info and I'll do whatever I can to assist you.

awheeler@collegestationhyundai.com

Thanks Ags for reaching out to me via IG to help.

- Andy

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That's a good gesture. But this sounds systemic at that store. Giving them a little money back for their time and ill will (as I suspect would be the best-case response) doesn't address the behavior.

Quote:

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They just freaking scratched out the etching? Seriously?? Holy hell.

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Talk about petty.

lb3 said:

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mm98 said:

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lb3 said:

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Next car I buy I'm recording the entire transaction.

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You should. They are, especially in finance.

I'm also wary about microphones hidden in parts of the waiting areas. Last car I had to buy the sales rep made comments about a vacation we were taking to New Mexico for Soring Break that I hadn't mentioned to him. Only my wife in the waiting area.

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Microphones in the lobby sounds illegal if they aren't a party to the conversation.

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Not really. I don't think there's a reasonable expectation of privacy in a public lobby of a car dealership.

I just don't understand their business philosophy.

On one hand, you can treat people fair and square and make whatever percent profit. You will probably earn repeat business, referrals, and positive reviews.

Or you can cheat people out of a few hundred to a few thousand dollars, and get people so angry you get no repeat business, no referrals, and negative reviews.

As a business owner myself, I know which works far better in the long run. And you wonder why these dealerships are hated so badly.

As for destroying the etching, yes, that just took pettiness and unprofessionalism to a new level.

I WILL NEVER NEVER DO BUSINESS WITH ANY KEATING DEALERSHIP. WHAT A SLIME BALL OUTFIT. I will spread the word to all of my Aggie Friends about how they are running a scam business. I hope the Keating dealership goes out of business and quit giving the honest dealers a bad name.

They aren't called stealerships for no reason.

This is a business practice. 9 times out of 10 people will not get an attorney or be able to get their money back. So you end up not ripping off 1 person that raises enough hell, and it maybe cost you a couple of thousand as an apology. Then you still make 5-10k extra ripping off each of the other 9 that aren't as resourceful.

dubi said:

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SCHTICK00 said:

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What else does Keating own, so I know to stay away and tell everyone the same?

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Keating owns almost everything in BCS.

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The rich don't get rich by being honest.

Let this be a lesson for vehicle buyers and those in a medical facility / hospital
BE THE ADVOCATE OR HAVE AN ADVOCATE

I have saved us several thousands of dollars, during an after situations, by being my … observant and persistent, let's call it, self.

I had a dealership screw me over. The GM wouldn't return my calls. I finally emailed him and Cc'ed AutoNation corporate, his competitors, the local news, and the NTSB. He called me 5 minutes later. I would jump on them quick, document it, and stay on them.

Car dealers job is to strip away as much money possible from buyers. They study it.. Practice it and perfect it. They do this every day all day.

Car buyers do this once every 5 years.

Who do you think will win?

Unfortunately consumers get too emotionally vested in a car to think straight.