Restoring an old Cotton Gin

15,055 Views | 86 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by The Fife
Centerpole90
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In reply to stbabs • 7:00a, 6/27/19
AG
stabs, do youInstagram? I stumbled on this very interesting account recently - very interesting and related to this. He rebuilds steam engines, one-lung gas engines and does all the machining himself. Many forgotten skills being preserved. Of great interest to me, he's restoring an Advance Rumely steam tractor and somewhere in those pictures I saw a Gardner flying ball governor exactly like the one you posted. Very interesting stuff.

https://www.instagram.com/20advr/
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stbabs
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In reply to Centerpole90 • 7:49a, 6/28/19
AG
Yep, another addicted restorer of "stuff".

Like us, looks like he needs an intervention.
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CATAGBQ04
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8:06a, 6/28/19
AG
https://instagr.am/p/Bx_lWD0HGyz
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Naveronski
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9:51a, 6/28/19
Complete Idiot
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9:59a, 6/28/19
Took the family to Nacogdoches, and Millard's Crossing, back in January (yes, I'm such a cool dad and my kid's just love the exciting stuff I drag them to).

I really enjoy old buildings and furnishings, and I really liked Millard's Crossing. Nearly empty and they just leave you to explore all the building unattended - nobody forcing you on a tour, or limiting access. You can go into nearly every room of every building and they are all well restored or great original condition and fully furnished.
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stbabs
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In reply to Complete Idiot • 10:50p, 6/28/19
AG
Nac has lots of history for an outta the way small town in the woods. Crockett, Bowie, Houston all loitered there a while.
Millard's Crossing helps recapture some of the history that was lost when commercialization took lots of the old houses that used to be on Calle del Norte.
This old gin should increase the draw for Millard's, especially if I can make it operational and make a few bales of cotton for an annual event.
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Ogre09
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5:13p, 6/29/19
AG
Compressed air is expensive to operate and maintain. I would recommend going electric motor (there's a reason they won it as the technology of choice) to drive everything, but couple up the steam drivers and try to hide the motor.
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AggieChemist
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7:35a, 7/1/19
AG
Fred Eaglesmith approves the **** out of this thread.
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stbabs
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In reply to Ogre09 • 8:43a, 7/1/19
AG
Ogre09 said:
Compressed air is expensive to operate and maintain. I would recommend going electric motor (there's a reason they won it as the technology of choice) to drive everything, but couple up the steam drivers and try to hide the motor.


Certainly an option.

Real steam is my preference but cost and liability likely get in the way.

If the old Hercules engine, or something similar, pans out we still have power appropriate to the time.

Fallback, as you say, make it look like steam but electrons making it spin.
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stbabs
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In reply to AggieChemist • 8:46a, 7/1/19
AG
AggieChemist said:
Fred Eaglesmith approves the **** out of this thread.


That you Fred? You still singing?
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BNorman77
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10:12a, 7/1/19
AG
stbabs, former VP of Engineering at Continental (Prattville, AL) here. Worked Continental, Continental Eagle from '81 to '95. Also still in contact with friends at Lummus Not sure I can add much to what you are doing but available for contact.

Mr.Tommy Brown (former Continental advertising) in Prattville has contact with all the historical information you could ever want on Continental. Continental was formed in 1900 by the combining of five (if memory serves) existing mfrs.: Pratt (formed in 1832 in AL), Eagle (Mass), Munger (TX/LA) and two more that names escape me. Tommy has worked with the AL. Archives Dept. where much of the documentation on the company resides as well as with the Smithsonian. Continental, most recently was known as Continental Eagle Corp, was sold to an Indian gin manufacturer, Bajaj Steel, but Pratt factory site is now owned by the Prattville Historical Society with some of the buildings dating to the 1870s.

I am forwarding the link to this thread to Tommy for his reference.

Interesting project. There are a number of similar projects that have been undertaken over the years, such as the Burton Gin. Most in the Mid-south and Southeast not unlike what you are undertaking.

Best of luck.
Bill Norman, D. Engr. '77
Vice president, Technical Services
National Cotton Council
Cordova, TN
"Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, give up. Never give up. Never give up. Never give up." - Winston Churchill, 1941 "Eating is dangerous. Not eating is deadly." - Someone wittier than me, 2012
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Centerpole90
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In reply to BNorman77 • 12:04p, 7/1/19
AG
Where is Paul Wilson these days? I spent a couple years there with y'all out of Memphis office; about the then Cotton Growers 3/161 gin was built in Dell, AR.
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stbabs
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In reply to BNorman77 • 1:13p, 7/1/19
AG
Thanks Bill. I've been in contact with Tommy. He linked me with Ross Rutherford at Lummus.

The major technical puzzle I had to solve was the design of the covers for the gin saws. These parts were easy to remove and were likely pilfered long ago. That seems to be the only parts I'm missing; at least for the stands themselves. The press will surely have some challenges when I finally get to it.

I went to the Burton festival a few weeks ago and made some great contacts. Carl Northern of Northern Lucas Machine in Lubbock was very helpful and was able to come up with some design drawings for Continentals of about the vintage of ours.

I can fabricate the doors from what Carl provided. The frames won't be cast as I'm sure the originals were but I can bend and weld some steel to replicate the original.

Welcome your input any time.
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BNorman77
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1:40p, 7/1/19
AG
Paul manages United Cotton Growers Cooperative near Levelland.
"Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, give up. Never give up. Never give up. Never give up." - Winston Churchill, 1941 "Eating is dangerous. Not eating is deadly." - Someone wittier than me, 2012
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Centerpole90
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In reply to BNorman77 • 4:22p, 7/1/19
AG
I have intentions of taking my son for a father/son trip and tour of some of the gins I used to call on in the AL Redlands. . Thinking about it caused me to google Frank Garrett a while back; I was sad to see he passed away.. he was a good mentor, I enjoyed working with him.
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stbabs
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11:07p, 7/23/19
AG
Making some progress on the art work for the door of the old Lummus gin stand. Track back up the thread and you'll see that the Lummus is well over 100 YO.

It will be in display mode, no attempt to make it operational. It likely could operate but it's two gin stand buddies didn't fare as well and no chance they'll ever run; just a parts source.

My artist buddy hasn't finished it yet but it's coming along.

You'll notice that I dulled the red with 1000 grit paper to give a better surface for the art work to adhere to.

Shine will come back when I clear coat the door after the artwork is finished.



And the Lummus in the Smithsonian we're using as a pattern for the artwork.



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Dr. Doctor
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7:33a, 7/24/19
TexAg1987
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In reply to stbabs • 12:06p, 7/24/19
stbabs said:


Red and green seem to be the go to colors for this stuff.


Due to the preservatives used in paint of the day, much of the paint was red and green.
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ABATTBQ11
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10:14p, 7/24/19
AG
This is one of the coolest threads I've seen in a long time
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stbabs
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 11:03a, 7/25/19
AG
ABATTBQ11 said:
This is one of the coolest threads I've seen in a long time


Glad you like it. I'm liking the project but kinda looking for the finish line. Soon be a year I've been on it.
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Duncan Idaho
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12:16p, 7/25/19
OP ruined the patina.
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stbabs
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In reply to Duncan Idaho • 5:52p, 7/25/19
AG
Duncan Idaho said:
OP ruined the patina.


There's "patina" to spare. I didn't ruin it all.
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Duncan Idaho
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In reply to stbabs • 4:10p, 7/29/19
It was a pawn stars joke
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stbabs
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In reply to Duncan Idaho • 7:26a, 7/30/19
AG
Duncan Idaho said:
It was a pawn stars joke


Zing! Right over my head. Haven't watched those slugs in years.
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stbabs
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5:07p, 8/11/19
AG


Artwork on the door of the old Lummus gin stand almost complete. My artist buddy in Nac is doing the work.

Oh! And the obligatory "before" shot:



I was able to use all the original wood. This piece dates to about 1900

And here's the one in the Smithsonian



It's larger than ours; 80 saws vs our 60, but ours will look just as good, maybe better.

Oh, after the art work is finished I'll shoot a couple of coats of gloss clear to protect the artwork and bring back the shine. I sanded the base red so the art work would adhere better.
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stbabs
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6:02p, 9/3/19
AG
And the door to the Lummus gin is finished:



Well, almost finished. Art work is done; now I'll shoot a couple of gloss clear coats on top to protect the artwork and add a sheen.

Remember, this is painted on wood that's about 120-130 years old.
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stbabs
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11:51a, 9/16/19
AG
In case you've been wondering, I haven't died and I haven't quit the gin project.

Just taking a break until the weather cools a bit. Been working in an old tin barn with no cooling but one shop fan which just moved hot air and east Texas humidity. Unbearable by late morning.

Likely back on the gin mid October. In the meantime I'm trying to finish my Chevelle and clearing some scrubby, cut over land in Rusk county.
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stbabs
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4:47p, 8/18/20
AG
Back on the cotton gin resto. First two shots are the oldest Lummus gin stand in its original condition before we pulled it out of the original gin building.

Obviously it was a mess. Some of the wood was rotted beyond repair and I had to do some fabrication with new wood.


The gin stand door however (piece with the artwork) was still solid so I rejoined the pieces, put in dowels and reglued.


Sand, prime (repeat, repeat, repeat) then the red went on; multiple coats, wet sanding between coats.

When I was satisfied with the finish I took it to an artist friend who painted on an exact replica of the original drawing.

Then, 3 coats of gloss clear, install the green metal hangers and hang it on the restored gin stand.



Three more newer ("prolly 90 years old) stands also nearing completion

More later

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The Fife
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5:32p, 8/18/20
Looks great! Where'd the 50 saws piece go?
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sts7049
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In reply to stbabs • 6:49p, 8/18/20
AG
stbabs said:
In case you've been wondering, I haven't died and I haven't quit the gin project.

Just taking a break until the weather cools a bit. Been working in an old tin barn with no cooling but one shop fan which just moved hot air and east Texas humidity. Unbearable by late morning.

Likely back on the gin mid October. In the meantime I'm trying to finish my Chevelle and clearing some scrubby, cut over land in Rusk county.


good to see you picked it back up during the cool season
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stbabs
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In reply to The Fife • 6:55p, 8/18/20
AG
The Fife said:
Looks great! Where'd the 50 saws piece go?


Busted!! Impressed that you caught that. That piece is in red but need to get my artist buddy to do the artwork then I'll mount it.

Oh! It's a 60 saw, not 50
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stbabs
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In reply to sts7049 • 7:03p, 8/18/20
AG
sts7049 said:
stbabs said:
In case you've been wondering, I haven't died and I haven't quit the gin project.

Just taking a break until the weather cools a bit. Been working in an old tin barn with no cooling but one shop fan which just moved hot air and east Texas humidity. Unbearable by late morning.

Likely back on the gin mid October. In the meantime I'm trying to finish my Chevelle and clearing some scrubby, cut over land in Rusk county.


good to see you picked it back up during the cool season


I did say that didn't I???

Oh well, temps in the Nac area area down to 93ish today. Almost a cold spell.

I now have the gin in a new insulated metal building with a shop fan. Much better work environment than the old shavings barn with pigeon chit and super high humidity.
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stbabs
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12:30a, 9/21/20
AG
Feeder chute for the oldest gin stand

Before:


After:


Was able to use 3 pieces of the original chute in the restored chute. The two raised panels and part of the piece above the green trimmed window.
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stbabs
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8:48a, 10/10/20
AG
Turning my attention to how we're going to power the restored gin. I described earlier in the thread that it was originally steam powered. Would like to return it to steam but too much regulation and too expensive. So, I found an old Hercules engine that is period correct to the 1920s. Model TXO. Four cylinder 6 3/8 bore X 7 inch stroke for 894 cu in.
Without the clutch it weighs 3480 lbs



Start of the breakdown:



Pistons were frozen after 80 years exposed to the elements

Shot of the top end. Yep, lots of rust. The exhaust was covered when I first found the engine but obviously it wasn't covered the entire 80 years it sat idle:



I mixed acetone and ATF and poured it in the two cylinders where the pistons were down
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Dr. Doctor
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8:25p, 10/10/20
AG
Could you hook up an electric motor to the old steam motor? Essentially make it look like the steam motor is driving, but really with electric motor?

~egon
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