Wasteful and absurd school programs and administration is not the fault or poor students, whether citizens, resident aliens, or illegal aliens. Those are the fault of bureaucrats and politicians buying votes via pork for their constituents.

I'm pretty sure the DREAMERS and their parents are playing a direct, significant role as well.

I thought the lottery was supposed to fix school funding.

schmellba99 said:

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Additionally, illegals and those from poor economic situations tend to be the ones that lead the charge for schools to have on sote daycares because students get pregnant. I dont,know if BISD has one of those programs or not, but i would be shocked if they didnt. And those programs are not cheap.

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LOL. You think it is illegals driving the on-site daycare trend. There is a waiting list at our high school because so many of our suburban middle-class young ladies have found themselves with child.

Stereotype much?

combat wombat said:

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Wasteful and absurd school programs and administration is not the fault or poor students, whether citizens, resident aliens, or illegal aliens. Those are the fault of bureaucrats and politicians buying votes via pork for their constituents.

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Ahh yes, let's just ignore the problem and deflect from the actual root cause. Works well.

WES2006AG said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Additionally, illegals and those from poor economic situations tend to be the ones that lead the charge for schools to have on sote daycares because students get pregnant. I dont,know if BISD has one of those programs or not, but i would be shocked if they didnt. And those programs are not cheap.

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LOL. You think it is illegals driving the on-site daycare trend. There is a waiting list at our high school because so many of our suburban middle-class young ladies have found themselves with child.

Stereotype much?

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Maybe I am, but let's fact the actual adult facts here - stereotypes exist for a reason. If you aren't adult enough to recognize that fact nor actually read what I wrote, you need to go sit at the kiddos table and resume coloring in your coloring book.

I'd be willing to bet that if you look at the overall numbers, those from lower socio-economic areas (which, and again this requires one to not be a snowflake ***** and actually look at hard numbers generally includes illegals) have a disproportionately high number of "members" of this club. I didn't say it was an exclusive club by any stretch.

Twisting what I said to fit your narrative much?

schmellba99 said:

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WES2006AG said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Additionally, illegals and those from poor economic situations tend to be the ones that lead the charge for schools to have on sote daycares because students get pregnant. I dont,know if BISD has one of those programs or not, but i would be shocked if they didnt. And those programs are not cheap.

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LOL. You think it is illegals driving the on-site daycare trend. There is a waiting list at our high school because so many of our suburban middle-class young ladies have found themselves with child.

Stereotype much?

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Maybe I am, but let's fact the actual adult facts here - stereotypes exist for a reason. If you aren't adult enough to recognize that fact nor actually read what I wrote, you need to go sit at the kiddos table and resume coloring in your coloring book.

I'd be willing to bet that if you look at the overall numbers, those from lower socio-economic areas (which, and again this requires one to not be a snowflake ***** and actually look at hard numbers generally includes illegals) have a disproportionately high number of "members" of this club. I didn't say it was an exclusive club by any stretch.

Twisting what I said to fit your narrative much?

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You spend your entire first paragraph talking about facts and then you post none. Anytime you start a sentence with "I'd be willing to bet" that means you are about to pull something straight out of your ass.

That is pretty rich.

combat wombat said:

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I'm going out on a limb here, but I am guessing that when you have that many illegals sharing an apartment, they're likely young males without families here. They are working here to send money back home. They aren't taking advantage of the meager education offered by HISD.

And seriosuly, slum lords *ahem* apartment managers, should make better efforts to enforce occupancy limits.

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"Welcome to Gulfton, where none of that **** applies, and preggos are everywhere!. Yes, those are absolutely HISD busses you see in lines."

Quote:

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So when you have 15 illegals living in a 2 br apartment they are paying "their share" of property taxes ?

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School districts can't fix the immigration problem. They have to live with the system at hand. And that means if a kid lives in the district, they go to school. A lot of school districts have been able to do that without needing to make 50% budget cuts. Don't let the HISD board off the hook because they can't figure it out like the others.

The illegals are a problem, but I really don't want to pay more than the $15 I'm already paying for chicken fried chicken, so kind of a no win situation.

While illegal immigration is an issue in many areas of our economy, HISD's budget shortfall is not one of them. Using 2014 numbers and extrapolating forwards illegal immigrants make up approximately 1.5% of the HISD student enrollment. While that number is not nothing, considering the fact that all of them will be paying property taxes in some form or another (even if it is not "their fare share") it is not enough the throw a billion dollar budget off. If you want to look at socioeconomic status of the student population for answers, your time would be better spent looking to the 76.99% that are economically disadvantaged.

What would interest me though is what would that percentage be if everyone zoned to HISD went to HISD. Houston has currently around 56k students enrolled in private school. If all of them went to public school that would drop the economically disadvantaged number down to 61%. Still high, but why this matters is those wealthy family property taxes are still going to those schools, and each private school student likely accounts for more properties due to birth rates from higher income families vs lower income families. To me this means that the issue is primarily an issue of government waste rather than exploitation at the student and family level. If you can't run a school system on a budget that on a per student basis is similar to the average private school tuition, the problem is mismanagement.

I was unaware that 98.5% of HISD students are fully legal residents.

Good one!

88jrt06 said:

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I was unaware that 98.5% of HISD students are fully legal residents.

Good one!

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sorry, that was 3,000 "unaccompanied minors" that enrolled after entering illegally. the total immigrant population enrolled in HISD was 8,409 which includes the referenced 3,000 but also includes both legal and illegal immigrants. so that sets the bounds on illegal immigrant students as being between 1.5% and 3.9% of the total student body. Probably lands in the 2-2.5% range. That isn't a large enough difference to change the point of the argument.

More importantly though since my argument was based on reported facts and figures, that you seem to refute, do you have literally any data to support your refutation, or are you just being a jackass?

edited for typos

Thanks for some facts. It appears he is just being a jackass...

BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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88jrt06 said:

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I was unaware that 98.5% of HISD students are fully legal residents.

Good one!

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sorry, that was 3,000 "unaccompanied minors" that enrolled after entering illegally. the total immigrant population enrolled in HISD was 8,409 which includes the referenced 3,000 but also includes both legal and illegal immigrants. so that sets the bounds on illegal immigrant students as being between 1.5% and 3.9% of the total student body. Probably lands in the 2-2.5% range. That isn't a large enough difference to change the point of the argument.

More importantly though since my argument was based on reported facts and figures, that you seem to refute, do you have literally any data to support your refutation, or are you just being a jackass?

edited for typos

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You think the illegal immigrant (first, second and third generation) enrollment in HISD is 2-2.5%? When they make up at least 25% of the area population, and a disproportionate share of the under 18 population without access to private school? Did you know "gullible" isn't in Webster's dictionary?

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/09/11/report-600000-illegal-immigrants-live-houston-area/

Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

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BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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88jrt06 said:

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I was unaware that 98.5% of HISD students are fully legal residents.

Good one!

---

sorry, that was 3,000 "unaccompanied minors" that enrolled after entering illegally. the total immigrant population enrolled in HISD was 8,409 which includes the referenced 3,000 but also includes both legal and illegal immigrants. so that sets the bounds on illegal immigrant students as being between 1.5% and 3.9% of the total student body. Probably lands in the 2-2.5% range. That isn't a large enough difference to change the point of the argument.

More importantly though since my argument was based on reported facts and figures, that you seem to refute, do you have literally any data to support your refutation, or are you just being a jackass?

edited for typos

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You think the illegal immigrant (first, second and third generation) enrollment in HISD is 2-2.5%? When they make up at least 25% of the area population, and a disproportionate share of the under 18 population without access to private school? Did you know "gullible" isn't in Webster's dictionary?

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/09/11/report-600000-illegal-immigrants-live-houston-area/

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You call someone else gullible and then post a breitbart article.

Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

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BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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88jrt06 said:

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I was unaware that 98.5% of HISD students are fully legal residents.

Good one!

---

sorry, that was 3,000 "unaccompanied minors" that enrolled after entering illegally. the total immigrant population enrolled in HISD was 8,409 which includes the referenced 3,000 but also includes both legal and illegal immigrants. so that sets the bounds on illegal immigrant students as being between 1.5% and 3.9% of the total student body. Probably lands in the 2-2.5% range. That isn't a large enough difference to change the point of the argument.

More importantly though since my argument was based on reported facts and figures, that you seem to refute, do you have literally any data to support your refutation, or are you just being a jackass?

edited for typos

---

You think the illegal immigrant (first, second and third generation) enrollment in HISD is 2-2.5%? When they make up at least 25% of the area population, and a disproportionate share of the under 18 population without access to private school? Did you know "gullible" isn't in Webster's dictionary?

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/09/11/report-600000-illegal-immigrants-live-houston-area/

---

scroll down to the second paragraph in that article and there is a link to a report on legal and illegal immigrants enrolled in HISD schools. I'm not just making assumptions, I'm stating reported facts and figures. Facts and figure reported by the same source you are trying to use to prove me wrong.

did you even read past the headline?

Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

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You think the illegal immigrant (first, second and third generation) enrollment in HISD is 2-2.5%? When they make up at least 25% of the area population, and a disproportionate share of the under 18 population without access to private school? Did you know "gullible" isn't in Webster's dictionary?

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/09/11/report-600000-illegal-immigrants-live-houston-area/

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Wrong again:

Profile of the Unauthorized Population: United States

under 16 makes up 8% of total illegal immigrants, under 24 makes up 23%. largest two groups are 24-35 and 34-44 making up a combined 53% of all illegal immigrants.


also i will again question your reading comprehension as the numbers in your quoted article are illegal immigrants in the entire Houston metro area which has a population of 6.3MM, which would put the illegal population just under 10%, not 25% as you asserted.

BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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88jrt06 said:

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I was unaware that 98.5% of HISD students are fully legal residents.

Good one!

---

sorry, that was 3,000 "unaccompanied minors" that enrolled after entering illegally. the total immigrant population enrolled in HISD was 8,409 which includes the referenced 3,000 but also includes both legal and illegal immigrants. so that sets the bounds on illegal immigrant students as being between 1.5% and 3.9% of the total student body. Probably lands in the 2-2.5% range. That isn't a large enough difference to change the point of the argument.

More importantly though since my argument was based on reported facts and figures, that you seem to refute, do you have literally any data to support your refutation, or are you just being a jackass?

edited for typos

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The point is: Your "facts" are garbage. YOU made the assertion. YOU back it up. Not with your own creative math, either. "In 2014, the (inaccurate) numbers were "x", so I'll just make my own assumptions and 'probably'
blah, blah...and it's a not a big diff, so....."

Do you "literally" have any RELIABLE data to support your assertion that 98.5% of HISD students are FULLY legal? No, you assuredly don't (despite your original post), because it's totally untrue, and not close.

Or are you just...well, you answered that, tough guy.

Edit: Oh, the Breitbart HISD Task Force Report and Immigration Census....brother...

88jrt06 said:

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BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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88jrt06 said:

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I was unaware that 98.5% of HISD students are fully legal residents.

Good one!

---

sorry, that was 3,000 "unaccompanied minors" that enrolled after entering illegally. the total immigrant population enrolled in HISD was 8,409 which includes the referenced 3,000 but also includes both legal and illegal immigrants. so that sets the bounds on illegal immigrant students as being between 1.5% and 3.9% of the total student body. Probably lands in the 2-2.5% range. That isn't a large enough difference to change the point of the argument.

More importantly though since my argument was based on reported facts and figures, that you seem to refute, do you have literally any data to support your refutation, or are you just being a jackass?

edited for typos

---

The point is: Your "facts" are garbage. YOU made the assertion. YOU back it up. Not with your own creative math, either. "In 2014, the (inaccurate) numbers were "x", so I'll just make my own assumptions and 'probably'
blah, blah...and it's a not a big diff, so....."

Do you "literally" have any RELIABLE data to support your assertion that 98.5% of HISD students are FULLY legal? No, you assuredly don't (despite your original post), because it's totally untrue, and not close.

Or are you just...well, you answered that, tough guy.

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http://www.breitbart.com/Texas/2014/11/18/Exclusive-3000-Unaccompanied-Minors-in-Houston-Schools/

article written from a report written by HISD's Government Relations Director. numbers reported are straight from HISD. sorry i didn't site my sources, but it is literally the first result when you search for stats about illegal enrollment in HISD. so, ball's back in your court. please back up your assertion that my "facts are garbage".

as for my assumptions, yes the numbers were from 2014, so i simply increase the reported immigrant enrollment to proportionally match the growth reported in the total illegal immigrant population for that same time period. hardly a stretch


Edit to add:
I'll just make this simple. If I am wrong about the percentage of illegals enrolled in HISD, please tell me what the correct number is and how you arrived at it?

there was nothing HISD could have done about Hurricane Harvey.

that's going to knock down property values (and taxes) for a good long while

W said:

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there was nothing HISD could have done about Hurricane Harvey.

that's going to knock down property values (and taxes) for a good long while

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Agreed - that's one of the reasons the budget shortfall went from 180-ish MM to 208MM. Property values are going to drop enough to hurt revenue but not drop enough to get HISD out of recapture (the CFO said values would have to drop something like 30% for that to happen).

I also agree with the statement that if a chunk of the kids in private schools would go to HISD instead, then a lot of these budget issues wouldn't exist and the recapture payment would be far less.

For the past couple of years, the administration has had an unofficial policy that the schools couldn't be touched when it came to budget cuts. Everyone else had to cut (to the tune of a total of $178MM over 3 yrs). Now, the schools HAVE to cut because everyone else is already running lean. If they would have centralized the staffing model or even closed/consolidated a few schools when this whole mess came to light, next year would not hurt so much.

I went to HISD schools, and majority hispanic ones. I would guess that there were only a handful of illegal immigrants there. School age kids were MUCH more likely to be american citizen children of immigrants because they were almost all born here.

So yes. 1) There probably really are very few illegals in HISD schools. 2) That does not necessarily mean that illegal immigrants are not having an impact on said schools by sending their american children there, the number of which is probably much, much higher.

Sure, by soil citizenship, most of the kids of illegals in our classrooms are citizens as opposed to DACAs. But the original point was that illegal immigrants are taxing the public school system. And illegally residing in Houston while sending their children to our schools does exactly that.

Precisely

Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

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Sure, by soil citizenship, most of the kids of illegals in our classrooms are citizens as opposed to DACAs. But the original point was that illegal immigrants are taxing the public school system. And illegally residing in Houston while sending their children to our schools does exactly that.

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You do have to take into account that HISD gets funds from the state for every kid in school...and they get more money if the kid is classified as economically disadvantaged (it is safe to assume that many immigrants fall into this category). So, while they may "tax the system", it isn't as if there is zero compensation for teaching them.

Quote:

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You do have to take into account that HISD gets fund from the state for every kid in school...and they get more money if the kid is classified as economically disadvantaged (it is safe to assume that many immigrants fall into this category). So, while they may "tax the system", it isn't as if there is zero compensation for teaching them.

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If you make the argument that the deficit would be less if all the kids in private school went to HISD, that would mean that the money gained from the state (or more accurately not lost to recapture) is higher than the cost to educate that child. The logical extension to that is that illegal immigrants in the school system would actually benefit HISD. The ESL classes and related support are going to have to be there with the number of legal immigrants anyway.

I do enjoy the part of this thread where posters find it easier to live in denial than it is to process new information that might conflict with their "known" world view. I mean "enjoy" in the sense of watching a two year old throw a tantrum in the grocery store. It's cute because they don't know any better but also because I don't have to live with it.

Anyway, do better HISD board.

FarmerJohn said:

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Quote:

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You do have to take into account that HISD gets fund from the state for every kid in school...and they get more money if the kid is classified as economically disadvantaged (it is safe to assume that many immigrants fall into this category). So, while they may "tax the system", it isn't as if there is zero compensation for teaching them.

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If you make the argument that the deficit would be less if all the kids in private school went to HISD, that would mean that the money gained from the state (or more accurately not lost to recapture) is higher than the cost to educate that child. The logical extension to that is that illegal immigrants in the school system would actually benefit HISD. The ESL classes and related support are going to have to be there with the number of legal immigrants anyway.

I do enjoy the part of this thread where posters find it easier to live in denial than it is to process new information that might conflict with their "known" world view. I mean "enjoy" in the sense of watching a two year old throw a tantrum in the grocery store. It's cute because they don't know any better but also because I don't have to live with it.

Anyway, do better HISD board.

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That's the point I was trying to make...Principals are always trying to reach and incentivize 100% attendance for a reason...and they love the extra $$$ the free and reduced lunch students bring in.

I know politicians are dumb, but there is no way that having higher tax revenues causes the overall total to be reduced, right? Just bc they are making a payment to recapture or whatever, thats bc they exceeded some predefined dollars to kids ratio correct? Thus, beforr racapture, the ratio was lower. Now its higher. But beyond some limit, so they have to pay out. Or do they actually have less money per student?

JJxvi said:

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I went to HISD schools, and majority hispanic ones. I would guess that there were only a handful of illegal immigrants there. School age kids were MUCH more likely to be american citizen children of immigrants because they were almost all born here.

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How many years ago did you leave the HISD system?

How do the districts pay for/in to the pension and retiree medical systems?

My wife was a teacher for 7 years. She was in HISD for 2 and FBISD for 5. As an innocent bystander, I have some of my own theories as to the constant funding issues for school districts. The following are opinions only...

• The districts don't build new schools correctly. They base expected enrollment numbers on flawed data, then end up with an overcrowded campus that requires costly measures to remediate
• Schools are "too fancy" when they do build them. An elementary school doesn't have to cost $30MM. It does not have to be a technological marvel or architectural statement.
• The overhead at the administrative level is gargantuan. The person in charge of IT at FBISD was a $130K position 5 years ago. I still have no idea what they did. I would go up to the school and help solve tech issues all the time
• Districts should sub-out all services that they can--building maintenance, landscaping, food service, cleaning and sanitation, IT, etc. If you bid out contracts to private companies on a competitive basis you can save a lot of money and keep accountability

In a perfect world, I would think you could run a school district like a small company. You have a Superintendent (CEO), 2-3 VP's to cover the different areas of the district, then each principal runs their campus.


I really feel the overriding factor in all of this is politics at the State level. There are politicians making decisions about public education. It should be experts with experience in the field driving that bus

dahouse said:

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I really feel the overriding factor in all of this is politics at the State level. There are politicians making decisions about public education. It should be experts with experience in the field driving that bus

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It's hard to find anyone at any level to be accountable to budgets. If you have this kind of disjoint, you can always blame the other guy. Politics and school administration aren't typical career paths for those with financial savvy anyway.

Educating poor kids on the state dime can be a good investment. Educating any kid that doesn't want to be educated is a gigantic waste. Hence, no solution.

This is precisely the situation one should expect from the folks that think twelve years of "language arts" classes and five months of economics instruction is a good balance.

So, please help me get this straight. If I own a $400,000 home in HISD, and have 2 children, do I help the district financially or hurt it by sending my kids to private school?

As a follow-up, If it isn't obvious that I'm helping the district, then we have a pretty messed up system