htxag09 said:

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**** HCAD. Complete waste of time. Basically looked at my report and said this was done by Jubally, a company that makes money on trying to get values lower than fair market value. Said jubally manipulates formulas in their favor to get lower values but wouldn't show me how so and which specific formulas. I was arguing based off HCAD set values for comparable properties and they just ignored it because they couldn't confirm HCAD's own values and went off sales comps.

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Jubally legally uses comps to reduce value. HCAD cherry picks comps to make it higher.

Yeah, but what do you do when your appraiser ignores you when you try to tell them that and emphasize you're protesting based off HCAD set values not recent sales? And says the formulas are wrong but can't explain how?

htxag09 said:

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**** HCAD. Complete waste of time. Basically looked at my report and said this was done by Jubally, a company that makes money on trying to get values lower than fair market value. Said jubally manipulates formulas in their favor to get lower values but wouldn't show me how so and which specific formulas. I was arguing based off HCAD set values for comparable properties and they just ignored it because they couldn't confirm HCAD's own values and went off sales comps.

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Agreed! Just did my formal today and they didn't even look at my comps. Glad I brought in the photos of all the drywall and brick cracks/****ty garage rafters because they used that to reduce the condition from very good to good. My comps should have given me a 35k reduction, but the panel just took exactly what the appraiser's value was (10k reduction). Of course, this was my first time going through this process so I don't exactly know how to argue it properly.

So got a voicemail from HCAD today about saving me a trip for informal and see if I want to settle over the phone based on recent sales price (closed Feb 2016). Is there any chance of me arguing for a value lower than my sales price? Jubally has me valued less than sales price (guess I overpaid for the neighborhood). HCAD does know my sales price, saw it in the hearing evidence link on their website. Do i just agree or fight? Not sure if I can argue lower than what I paid for it.

Never hurts to go argue....but my guess is you will be hard pressed to get any lower than your closing statement.

Just finished my informal. Reduced $19k with a realtor sales listing showing sales that HCAD ommited and an argument on HCADs comp logic.

htxag09 said:

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Yeah, but what do you do when your appraiser ignores you when you try to tell them that and emphasize you're protesting based off HCAD set values not recent sales? And says the formulas are wrong but can't explain how?

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Did you read Jubally's instructions? The informal agents can't negotiate on Uniform and Equal, only Comparable Market Analysis.

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6. We encourage all users to take part in the informal hearing process if your suggested value is based on the Comparable Market Analysis (recent sales). Most owners come to an agreement if their evidence supports their suggested value through the informal hearing process. If your suggested value is based on Uniform and Equal, they will not work with you at the informal hearing, so it is worthless. Other cases are resolved through the I-Settle program, although the reductions seen through that system are often much less than reductions received through the Informal or Formal Hearing Process. The Formal Hearing is the best, and it is not close. You can use the Informal for practice, if nothing else.

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It was my formal hearing.

Those going to to formal... I highly suggest studying the HCAD calculations and questioning them during your meeting. Don't be a dick. Just ask for clarification and politely disagree with the logic. I got an extra 2-3k off by questioning their "Time Adjusted Sales Price". Arbitrators ate it up.

Just had my informal and it went better than I expected. I asked for a little over Jubally's estimate because I didn't think they would come down that low and they offered $5,000 over what I asked for so I took it. Came down nearly $30,000. I was in and out of there in about 5 minutes.

I've got my informal next week. What info did you use? Just the Jubally report or did you bring supporting pictures, etc?

I brought the Jubally report but didn't even use it. I did a little supplemental work of my own and just compared mine to all the houses on my street, mine had the highest price per square foot and was the 5th highest appraised on the street even though I'm the 17th largest out of 23, and my updates were done earlier than other people's. I think he saw mine was way overvalued and adjusted accordingly.

Of course, YMMV so who knows how yours will go. Good luck!

Had my Informal yesterday and argued that my house should be $35K lower based on U&E but the appraiser kept saying that values are set on sales comps and wouldn't listen to U&E. Yes, I know Jubally warned on this and I reminded him that legally my house can't be appraised higher than a reasonable number of my neighbors and I have 10 comps w/ price / sq ft values lower than mine. Then we looked at sales comps which Jubally only showed 2 reflecting a $20K reduction but then he offered a $30K reduction. You go yourself a deal.

texagpilot said:

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So got a voicemail from HCAD today about saving me a trip for informal and see if I want to settle over the phone based on recent sales price (closed Feb 2016). Is there any chance of me arguing for a value lower than my sales price? Jubally has me valued less than sales price (guess I overpaid for the neighborhood). HCAD does know my sales price, saw it in the hearing evidence link on their website. Do i just agree or fight? Not sure if I can argue lower than what I paid for it.

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I have this same exact situation. They left me a voicemail yesterday. Similar to above, Jubally has me valued about 16,000 lower than sales price (and about 23,000 lower than hcad). I don't feel I should even bother with calling them back as I'm trying to get a much larger amount taken off. Thoughts?

Also, my house has an atrium/courtyard area that is open air, i.e. Non-livable space. Picture a square house roughly, with a smaller square inside the larger square that is open air. Since Hcad uses outside measurements, they haven't been taking this into account for the past 38 or however many years. Would there be any chance at all they would reduce the total livable square footage if I brought evidence of it to the hearing?

Since you're using Jubally I'm sure you read up on the U&E protest though not sure how receptive the HCAD folks will be with it after my most recent experience. At the formal the panel hopefully will agree with you if you make a good case.

Regarding the square footage disparity you can get that fixed with correct documentation. I've had two friends with new houses in this situation and it was pretty easy to get taken care of.

I still think the easiest way to get the value reduced is by using quotes for required work but make sure it from before Jan 1 of the current year.

NCNJ1217 said:

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Also, my house has an atrium/courtyard area that is open air, i.e. Non-livable space. Picture a square house roughly, with a smaller square inside the larger square that is open air. Since Hcad uses outside measurements, they haven't been taking this into account for the past 38 or however many years. Would there be any chance at all they would reduce the total livable square footage if I brought evidence of it to the hearing?

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They should, yes.

I had my informal yesterday, really nice young guy. Bascially said he can only agree to my recent sale price from last year. I am arguing U&E so I will have to go to formal.

Just returned from my informal. I was able to split the difference between Jubally and HCAD, for an $11k difference. I'll take it.

Just got back from mine. Asked for 30K drop and showed some pics of minor siding and water damage. The guy pulled up my page and told me he could do that since the three lowest comps would already allow a 22K drop. Once he added my damage report, he got down to the full 30K drop. I didn't buy the Jubally report, since it said they only had 2 recent sales to use as comps and they need 3 to do market value drop.

Question as I have my formal in the morning:

I will be arguing U&E. On the chart, it lists some homes with positive values for Extra Features, and some with negative values. What would be an Extra Feature with a negative value?

Foundation Damage is generally why.

Gotcha.

Had the formal this morning... pretty much a joke. It basically came down to them averaging out a few of my comps, and a few of the counties. None of them gave me any explanation as to how they arrived at their values, but they varied wildly and settled on the middle.

Overall, got it dropped 30k. Was asking for 55k based on u&e.

I was successful at my informal for U&E. I've been using Jubally for I think the last 4 or 5 years, and I think it's a diminishing return because I'm keeping my property where it should be. No fault of Jubally.

I was flat from last year, but I protest regardless. I went in asking for a 15K reduction and the agent pushed back, looking at his comps. We did the standard dance of yours don't match mine, etc etc. I then said "If you give me a 10K reduction, I'll be happy if you're happy." He agreed and it was done, with the process taking less than 10 minutes. Did I leave some meat on the bone? Probably but saving around 350 in taxes that were flat from last year is okay with me for the small fee that Jubally charges.

I got lucky, the guy was really friendly and outgoing and I returned the vibe.

I've had to go to a formal only once over the last 3 years I think because I back off my original ask and ask them to meet me in the middle. I'm not hitting any home runs, but I'm hitting those base hits that keep chipping away at the big number and that's good with me.

I do find it shocking that so many neighbors don't protest, judging by their valuations.

Told my neighbor about my success and they just said they want to sell in a few years and don't want this hurting their resale value. Tried to explain why it really doesn't affect resale value, but they weren't convinced. I finally gave up.

ceenAg05 said:

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Told my neighbor about my success and they just said they want to sell in a few years and don't want this hurting their resale value. Tried to explain why it really doesn't affect resale value, but they weren't convinced. I finally gave up.

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Exactly. In my case my house was valued at about $70k less than I paid for it. I was able to get homestead before HCAD realized their error.

ceenAg05 said:

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Told my neighbor about my success and they just said they want to sell in a few years and don't want this hurting their resale value. Tried to explain why it really doesn't affect resale value, but they weren't convinced. I finally gave up.

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Others are just damned lazy. I think most of my neighbors just don't bother.
Was talking to my dad this weekend about fighting his valuation (different county) and he was trying to convince me that there was no point because he is retired and the CAD is not allowed to raise his. Seems he should still be able to argue that it is currently too high.

His appraised value may be so far below market that there is no reason to bother, especially if his value has been frozen for a while.

No, it's too high. Parents never fought it before it was frozen. He wouldn't let me do it but I think I could get it dropped $10-20k.

HCAD Informal today. Had a great appraiser. Had good discussion about market comps and eventually we agreed on the comps provided in the Jubally report.

If the value is frozen and you protest to lower it, I assume it is then frozen at the new lower value? Or does the "cap" remain at the value when it was frozen?

no clue

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If the value is frozen and you protest to lower it, I assume it is then frozen at the new lower value? Or does the "cap" remain at the value when it was frozen?

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Assuming you're referencing the ISD 'freeze' for an Over 65 exemption, yes it will 're-freeze' at the lower value.

Had my informal today.

My first issue was with the square footage (as explained above). I had my diagram from the appraisal and a pic to show the atrium was indeed not livable space. So they redrew their diagram and reduced the improvement square footage. However, when I asked (as I think would be logical) for them to reduce the market value of the house the appropriate amount since the square footage wasn't the same, he balked and said he couldn't do that.

Then I brought out my HUD-1 from last year's purchase which showed a purchase price lower than appraised value, and further, that showed a seller contribution to bring the price down further. After he checked with a supervisor he came back and said they could accept the sales price with the seller contribution in the informal, but they might not accept it in the formal. (I think he was blowing smoke because it's the law that seller contribution factors in.)

I had a whole other U&E presentation from Jubally as well, which I was hoping not to use. Recent sales price on the HUD-1, plus a sizeable dollar amount for the reduction in square footage, should have gotten me well below even the Jubally value. I didn't go into it since we were pressed for time after adjusting the sqft on the computer.

Bottom line, they only offered to reduce by the recent sales price, and adjusted square footage but not the dollar value assigned to the square footage.

So, I did have some questions to hopefully help maximize my presentation in my formal.

1. Should I reasonably expect my value to be lowered correspondent with the square footage that was reduced?

2. If the answer to #1 is yes, should I reasonably expect to add that reduction to the amount of the 2016 sale on the HUD-1?

3. If the answer to #1 is no, why not?

4. Do they just not trust the informal appraisers to do math? I had it all laid out as far as how much to subtract to account for the lowered square footage, but perhaps they don't allow them to do those calculations in that setting?

NCNJ1217 said:

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Had my informal today.

My first issue was with the square footage (as explained above). I had my diagram from the appraisal and a pic to show the atrium was indeed not livable space. So they redrew their diagram and reduced the improvement square footage. However, when I asked (as I think would be logical) for them to reduce the market value of the house the appropriate amount since the square footage wasn't the same, he balked and said he couldn't do that.

Then I brought out my HUD-1 from last year's purchase which showed a purchase price lower than appraised value, and further, that showed a seller contribution to bring the price down further. After he checked with a supervisor he came back and said they could accept the sales price with the seller contribution in the informal, but they might not accept it in the formal. (I think he was blowing smoke because it's the law that seller contribution factors in.)

I had a whole other U&E presentation from Jubally as well, which I was hoping not to use. Recent sales price on the HUD-1, plus a sizeable dollar amount for the reduction in square footage, should have gotten me well below even the Jubally value. I didn't go into it since we were pressed for time after adjusting the sqft on the computer.

Bottom line, they only offered to reduce by the recent sales price, and adjusted square footage but not the dollar value assigned to the square footage.

So, I did have some questions to hopefully help maximize my presentation in my formal.

1. Should I reasonably expect my value to be lowered correspondent with the square footage that was reduced?

2. If the answer to #1 is yes, should I reasonably expect to add that reduction to the amount of the 2016 sale on the HUD-1?

3. If the answer to #1 is no, why not?

4. Do they just not trust the informal appraisers to do math? I had it all laid out as far as how much to subtract to account for the lowered square footage, but perhaps they don't allow them to do those calculations in that setting?

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do you not think if your house was bigger than they thought that they would be increasing the value? of course a house smaller than their appraisal should have its value reduced! there's not much more important to the value of a home than the amount of home there is.