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High-end Watches Locally?

1,901,399 Views | 15555 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by YouBet
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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BoDog said:

YouBet said:

Serotonin said:

YouBet said:

Graph seems to be significantly wrong. Rolex should be in Superpremium unless y'all are aware of someone selling them from $1,500-5,000.

Please share with board ASAP if you know where to find these unicorns.
No doubt, it has to be mid-2000s vintage. Look at where Panerai and IWC were. No one is putting them above Rolex in the 2010s and it would be even more laughable today.

I enjoy talking the brand strategy but I could go either way. The Mercedes example is a good one; if you are introducing new people to the brand and building some brand loyalty then that is a good strategy.
I was going to post this the other day but I couldn't verify my memory. When I was in business school, we had a case study in our Marketing class on brand strategy and it was about a luxury watch maker. The gist of the case study was that this watch maker was a mid-range watch maker that almost overnight transformed their brand by simply deciding to declare themselves as a high end watch maker.

Nothing really changed other than them simply telling people: "We are high-end now". And people said "Ok" and they were then high-end and commanded high-end prices and got them. There was more to it than that I'm sure (this was ~20 years ago), but that particular case always fascinated me because a company changed their trajectory by simply speaking it without changing anything underlying it.

In my head, I had always remembered it as Rolex which was why I wanted to post it, but their story didn't feel like it aligned with that so it must have been someone else and I've been unable to find it.
You just described Hublot to a "T"! In the 1980/90s they were a mediocre brand (some would argue still are) with very little presence or relevance on the watch scene. Fast forward to early 2000s they are taken over by the division lead from Omega. Comes out with the Big Bang, pays a few rappers and later athletes as endorsers then next thing you know they are "high end." Hell even Jerry Jones is on board and a ton of Cowboys wear them. It is a classic story on marketing and should be taught to every business student.
Great case of this is Ace of Spades Champagne. That stuff was and still is $30 champagne. But they stuck in a gold bottle one day and marketed the hell out of it to people trying to cultivate an image and it worked.

I did a side-by-side of Ace of Spades v. small mom-and-pop stuff from small towns around Reims and Epernay and the mom-and-pop Champagne was the better product every time even though they were selling it for 15 euro/bottle and Ace of Spades was retailing close to 200 euro.
AgLA06
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Right, but these examples are the opposite of what Swatch is trying to do here.

The Mercedes analogy is probably pretty good. My parents have always wanted a Mercedes for status. They always viewed it as making it. They bought one last year. I'm not impressed. It was a nicer end large SUV of the Mercedes offerings. It seems they have been successful in adding customers and revenue, but it appears it was at the expense of quality. My 2021 middle tier truck has a better ride and is more roomy and comfortable at half the cost. I'm sure not getting status points for it though like their Mercedes.

When they see the Mercedes many of our customers that live a life style a tier above us commonly make snide comments about Mercedes in general and feel the need to note what brands they've switched to.
SquirrellyDan
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I don't want to ruffle any feathers here, but that's all most mid and high end watches are is marketing and branding. A Rolex is a fine product, but there isn't any intrinsic value in the watch to justify the prices other than the fact it's a Rolex. Same can be said of most luxury watches. I'm not saying they're not worth the money, because they certainly are worth whatever people will pay for them. I want one too!
Serotonin
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Well, to bring the Milgauss and Mercedes conversations together, I'd take both of these:
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/this-ice-cream-moguls-wrist-has-some-serious-drip-2


TheOC16
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SquirrellyDan said:

I don't want to ruffle any feathers here, but that's all most mid and high end watches are is marketing and branding. A Rolex is a fine product, but there isn't any intrinsic value in the watch to justify the prices other than the fact it's a Rolex. Same can be said of most luxury watches. I'm not saying they're not worth the money, because they certainly are worth whatever people will pay for them. I want one too!
What watch brand produces pieces that are the quality of Rolex or Omega for the lowest price? Essentially, what is your watch maker with the same intrinsic value, but minus the marketing and branding?

I don't really know, curious to hear thoughts though. Oris? Christopher Ward? (For the record I hate the look of CW watches, I'm just trying to throw out some names.)
SquirrellyDan
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TheOC16 said:

SquirrellyDan said:

I don't want to ruffle any feathers here, but that's all most mid and high end watches are is marketing and branding. A Rolex is a fine product, but there isn't any intrinsic value in the watch to justify the prices other than the fact it's a Rolex. Same can be said of most luxury watches. I'm not saying they're not worth the money, because they certainly are worth whatever people will pay for them. I want one too!
What watch brand produces pieces that are the quality of Rolex or Omega for the lowest price? Essentially, what is your watch maker with the same intrinsic value, but minus the marketing and branding?

I don't really know, curious to hear thoughts though. Oris? Christopher Ward? (For the record I hate the look of CW watches, I'm just trying to throw out some names.)
That's a good question. I can't speak to the comparative quality of the mechanical movements, but I'm sure someone on here can. I do know Omega, for example, makes Quartz movement watches that are several times more expensive than other quality quartz watches.
FTAco07
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Grand Seiko comes to mind. Those movements are top notch, but are weighed down by the Seiko name and being Japanese rather than Swiss
RyanC
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Sinn
FTAC2011
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FTAco07 said:

Grand Seiko comes to mind. Those movements are top notch, but are weighed down by the Seiko name and being Japanese rather than Swiss


Would agree and actually could argue that grand seiko is higher quality than Rolex. At least from a movement perspective
FTAC2011
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Check this. And this is not the lower price point but just amazing the work done to make a tourbillon movement so accurate

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjl-tPvtoL3AhU6k2oFHadTCo0Qjhx6BAgBEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.grand-seiko.com%2Fus-en%2Fnews%2Fpressrelease%2F20220330-1&psig=AOvVaw3h_SDpCz1k85KsL4Ud2nku&ust=1649437284739547
AgEng06
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Yeah that Seiko Kodo is amazing.
AgLA06
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Kind of a difficult question.

When it comes to precision time keeping and certification Rolex and Omega seem to be in a league of their own.

If we're just talking COSC certified watches (+4 to -4) that are less than $3k, I think your options are.

  • Longines
  • Tissot
  • Christopher Ward
  • Brellum
  • Mido

Anyone aware of any others?

Longines and Brellum are the 2 that seem to fit my style better.
AgLA06
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FTAC2011 said:

FTAco07 said:

Grand Seiko comes to mind. Those movements are top notch, but are weighed down by the Seiko name and being Japanese rather than Swiss


Would agree and actually could argue that grand seiko is higher quality than Rolex. At least from a movement perspective
I love Grand Seiko and I'm not sure that accurate.

Grand Seiko has a large portfolio of complex movements that are industry leading in quality. But I don't believe they've ever reached the accuracy of Rolex in actual time keeping.

The other side of this is as far as MSRP many Grand Seiko watches are just as expensive as Rolex, so I'm not sure that really a value brand in comparison.
TheOC16
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AgLA06 said:

Kind of a difficult question.

When it comes to precision time keeping and certification Rolex and Omega seem to be in a league of their own.

If we're just talking COSC certified watches (+4 to -4) that are less than $3k, I think your options are.

  • Longines
  • Tissot
  • Christopher Ward
  • Brellum
  • Mido

Anyone aware of any others?

Longines and Brellum are the 2 that seem to fit my style better.
I love Longines. And they have a very wide catalog, so options for everyone.

Speaking of - if anyone wants a 43mm diver, let me know. I bought one that I found it just a tad too big for my wrist preferences. But a beautiful watch.




YouBet
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I can't speak intelligently to the various watch movements out there but I've been saving off watches that i like while tracking this thread and Grand Seiko currently holds the title of highest number of watches I've saved off. Really, really like their watches.
TheOC16
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I really love the Spring Drive movement and their beautiful dials, and want to fall in love with a Grand Seiko so that I can add one. But I just can't find a case/bracelet design that appeals to me. I guess their design style just doesn't match mine.
FTAC2011
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AgLA06 said:

FTAC2011 said:

FTAco07 said:

Grand Seiko comes to mind. Those movements are top notch, but are weighed down by the Seiko name and being Japanese rather than Swiss


Would agree and actually could argue that grand seiko is higher quality than Rolex. At least from a movement perspective
I love Grand Seiko and I'm not sure that accurate.

Grand Seiko has a large portfolio of complex movements that are industry leading in quality. But I don't believe they've ever reached the accuracy of Rolex in actual time keeping.

The other side of this is as far as MSRP many Grand Seiko watches are just as expensive as Rolex, so I'm not sure that really a value brand in comparison.


Grand seiko spring drive movements are wayyyyyyyy more accurate than Rolex. Their dials are also way better too
YouBet
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TheOC16 said:

I really love the Spring Drive movement and their beautiful dials, and want to fall in love with a Grand Seiko so that I can add one. But I just can't find a case/bracelet design that appeals to me. I guess their design style just doesn't match mine.
I hear ya. Take that watch above. Ridiculously awesome looking dial.

But I'm not wearing a crocodile skin bracelet on my wrist.
AgEng06
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Well it's $350k and there are only 20 made, so you're probably safe from having to wear it.
TheOC16
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YouBet said:

TheOC16 said:

I really love the Spring Drive movement and their beautiful dials, and want to fall in love with a Grand Seiko so that I can add one. But I just can't find a case/bracelet design that appeals to me. I guess their design style just doesn't match mine.
I hear ya. Take that watch above. Ridiculously awesome looking dial.

But I'm not wearing a crocodile skin bracelet on my wrist.
If you have the $350,000 to spend on the watch and the clout to get one of the 20 they're planning to produce in the next three years, I'm happy to swap the leather strap out for you.
FTAco07
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YouBet said:

TheOC16 said:

I really love the Spring Drive movement and their beautiful dials, and want to fall in love with a Grand Seiko so that I can add one. But I just can't find a case/bracelet design that appeals to me. I guess their design style just doesn't match mine.
I hear ya. Take that watch above. Ridiculously awesome looking dial.

But I'm not wearing a crocodile skin bracelet on my wrist.
Good, because it's a strap not a bracelet [note the emoji]
Sea Speed
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YouBet said:

TheOC16 said:

I really love the Spring Drive movement and their beautiful dials, and want to fall in love with a Grand Seiko so that I can add one. But I just can't find a case/bracelet design that appeals to me. I guess their design style just doesn't match mine.
I hear ya. Take that watch above. Ridiculously awesome looking dial.

But I'm not wearing a crocodile skin bracelet on my wrist.


Probably not wearing 350 grand on it either, though.
SquirrellyDan
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Continuing with the vehicle analogies....Grand Seiko is a lot like Genesis. The Genesis GV80 is the highest rated vehicle in it's segment, competing against Benz, BMW, etc. and at a lower cost. Lots of people are put off by the fact they'd be buying a 70k Hyundai, no matter how good it is.
YouBet
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I'll have y'all know I'm worth tens of hundreds dollars.

I'll pick up the Grand Seiko + Casio collaboration knock off for this and you m'fers will weep from jealousy.
YouBet
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SquirrellyDan said:

Continuing with the vehicle analogies....Grand Seiko is a lot like Genesis. The Genesis GV80 is the highest rated vehicle in it's segment, competing against Benz, BMW, etc. and at a lower cost. Lots of people are put off by the fact they'd be buying a 70k Hyundai, no matter how good it is.
Good analogy.

Also, a massive Genesis homer.
SquirrellyDan
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YouBet said:

SquirrellyDan said:

Continuing with the vehicle analogies....Grand Seiko is a lot like Genesis. The Genesis GV80 is the highest rated vehicle in it's segment, competing against Benz, BMW, etc. and at a lower cost. Lots of people are put off by the fact they'd be buying a 70k Hyundai, no matter how good it is.
Good analogy.

Also, a massive Genesis homer.
I like them a lot as well. I have no problem with Hyundai, I just wish they'd have separate Genesis dealerships and service centers.....unless that's been remedied and I don' know about it?
Serotonin
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I have GS and Rolex. Rolex is very accurate but the GS is insanely accurate with the Spring Drive. Mine is fast by ~1 second per week.
Diggity
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Jokes on you guys. The Swatchmega is more accurate than all of them!
YouBet
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SquirrellyDan said:

YouBet said:

SquirrellyDan said:

Continuing with the vehicle analogies....Grand Seiko is a lot like Genesis. The Genesis GV80 is the highest rated vehicle in it's segment, competing against Benz, BMW, etc. and at a lower cost. Lots of people are put off by the fact they'd be buying a 70k Hyundai, no matter how good it is.
Good analogy.

Also, a massive Genesis homer.
I like them a lot as well. I have no problem with Hyundai, I just wish they'd have separate Genesis dealerships and service centers.....unless that's been remedied and I don' know about it?
I've had this conversation on the Auto board. This has bothered me as well because I'm admittedly spoiled by Sewell here in Dallas.

A Genesis owner pointed out that their concierge service is excellent and you really have to never set foot in a Hyundai dealership, if you don't want to.

Once i thought about it, that actually made sense to me if you are trying to be innovative by offering equivalent white glove service like Sewell does without having to invest in completely separate physical infrastructure. As a consumer, it's not like i want to go to Sewell. It's just that when i go it's great to receive elite customer service. If i can get the same without having to get in my car and drive there? That sounds pretty good.
AgLA06
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FTAC2011 said:

AgLA06 said:

FTAC2011 said:

FTAco07 said:

Grand Seiko comes to mind. Those movements are top notch, but are weighed down by the Seiko name and being Japanese rather than Swiss


Would agree and actually could argue that grand seiko is higher quality than Rolex. At least from a movement perspective
I love Grand Seiko and I'm not sure that accurate.

Grand Seiko has a large portfolio of complex movements that are industry leading in quality. But I don't believe they've ever reached the accuracy of Rolex in actual time keeping.

The other side of this is as far as MSRP many Grand Seiko watches are just as expensive as Rolex, so I'm not sure that really a value brand in comparison.


Grand seiko spring drive movements are wayyyyyyyy more accurate than Rolex. Their dials are also way better too
Better is subjective. Much more flash and options on Grand Seiko. I mean pastel colors are the extreme for Rolex. Then again, Rolex is the most well known / recognized watch in the world for a reason. They look like a Rolex.

I tend to think the same way as you do with accuracy of the spring drive. I took quite a bit of heat for being a Seiko brand guy earlier in this thread. I do find it interesting that Grand Seiko only does in house certification (so no real certification like some of the ultra luxury brands are now doing. I tried looking up the accuracy of Grand Seikos and the rabbit hole led to a bunch of threads questioning the accuracy based on actual watches in hand.
FTAC2011
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SPF250
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RE branding, and FWIW, in Germany, Mercedes is considered a "pensioners" car.
YouBet
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FTAC2011 said:

Here is actual watch

Just watching Tiger's post match interview in the bunkhouse and I'm pretty sure he was wearing this watch. Or something remarkably similar.
FTAC2011
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YouBet said:

FTAC2011 said:

Here is actual watch

Just watching Tiger's post match interview in the bunkhouse and I'm pretty sure he was wearing this watch. Or something remarkably similar.


Maybe that's why I just sold it
FTAC2011
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I think I like the yellow gold better
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