In the comparison between Six Flags and Universal Studios, know that Universal has much deeper pockets and builds a much higher quality park. They are much more likely to build parking garages to maximize land use instead of all surface lots at Six Flags. I'm sure the full site plan will be revealed in the coming months and that will just raise more questions.

I'm glad it's coming to Frisco, it will only improve the quality of life for most residents. That being said, I'm glad I live on the east side of town and it won't impact my traffic level.

I was pretty sure someone saw the plot of land they bought and it was right under 100 acres. FTAco07 has all the right tools to test that theory.

I believe the entire purchase was 97 acres so unless they are going to work some kind of lease for additional parking land, which would be very surprising, I think the parking will be part of that acreage. I wouldn't expect any major structured parking since that's more expensive than additional land for surface parking, but it's certainly possible.

ChoppinDs40 said:

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Carlo4 said:

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ChoppinDs40 said:

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No way. That would be adding 30k plus people per year. It's got a long ways to go. Drive up Preston through Celina to Gunter. Looks like Prosper 20+ years ago.

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Growth rate is 20% per year like clockwork. Keep that pace, and you get there quicker than you realize.

Source: I'm a traffic engineering consultant and do lots of work with the City of Celina.

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At what point though, are some of these places too far out? will DFW continue its endless sprawl all the way to the river?

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It looks like it. On 75, Sherman/Denison is currently blowing up. Anna and Van Alstyne are steadily growing.
I guess it will be two separate metro areas. Not sure where the boundary will be, but I don't think you will know when you leave one and enter the other.

Here's an example. It took roughly 25 years for the development to happen in the red section.

How long do we think it takes to fill out the green?

That park is tiny, doubt it is going to have a big traffic impact.

ChoppinDs40 said:

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Here's an example. It took roughly 25 years for the development to happen in the red section.

How long do we think it takes to fill out the green?

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15 years-ish. Pace of influx to DFW is much greater now. Unlikely there will be a 2008 full stop.

Gigem_94 said:

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ChoppinDs40 said:

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The entire development is less than 100 acres y'all. This is basically a glorified playground for charge. Nothing to worry about.

For reference, 100 acres is less than a square 1/2 mile. Six Flags over Texas is 212 acres. I assume the 100 acres includes parking due to the size of the plot they bought.

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The actual park excluding parking for six flags is around 26 acres.

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Using a tool that uses Google Maps, I measured it. Including parking, I measured approximately 182 acres. I would say that is an estimate that varies by 10-15-ish percent. So depending on what area is being included, the 212 number MAY be accurate. 26 is nowhere near accurate. 26 acres covers MAYBE a third of the actual park.

right - some of those roller coasters take up a least a couple each. The big orange one (forget its name) is likely 10 acres itself

edit: just measured the Titan... a little over 5 acres

2nd edit: measured the park itself and came around 80 acres.

including parking... 180 acres in total.. including the judge roy scream and lake.

presumed place it'll be... that is almost 140 acres right there... so cut that by 30% and there's your park.. including parking.

and 87 acres.

What you have outline is more than what Universal will be, FYI.

happy?



uno mas

better than another Indian temple surrounded by vegetarian restaurants, amirite?

lol

you KNOW those people in that neighborhood across the street are PISSED.

Those homes have been there for quite some time and have enjoyed rolling fields behind and north of them for years.

Now? HERES SHREK AND BLARING BALIWOOD EVERY DAY

these people here... ugh pointed right at that thing.

probably just hopes for more houses... and that's what people on the other side of the tollway are getting

to an extent but they will still be surrounded by commerical

Frisco holding up permit approvals, delayed from Feb 7 to March.

Glad to see they're fighting.

Meanwhile, up in prosper, we're just letting apartment/mixed use things come in by the bushel.

We have 3 miles of DNT frontage and are ok letting it be filled with apartments with first floor retail. Effin stupid.

ChoppinDs40 said:

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Glad to see they're fighting.

Meanwhile, up in prosper, we're just letting apartment/mixed use things come in by the bushel.

We have 3 miles of DNT frontage and are ok letting it be filled with apartments with first floor retail. Effin stupid.

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What's the problem? It's "European style" live/work/play bro. Now you have the privilege of overpriced meals and nail salons.

Fascinating thread!

Wondering what are the mist promising investment opportunities there are with a 10 year horizon to cone out of the growth?

Also, I don't fully believe we are limited by an r-squared relationship. Growth between 75 and 377 or even 35 will outpace other corridors all the way to the red River. Just my opinion...

McKinney is doing the same thing. A ton of apartments being built. Just what we always want

The investment opportunity was to marry one of Rex Glendenning's daughters. Dude has built an empire from selling land in Denton/Collin and Grayson county.

He has sold one of the 380/Preston corners 13 times.

The amount of land he owns in Celina will be generational when chopped up and sold.

ChoppinDs40 said:

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Appreciate the sarcasm but we've already got zoning for 6,500 MFH units. We don't need more.

We need to be using those 3 miles of frontage road for businesses that don't add headcount to the school district. It's already growing too fast to keep up with schools being built. Throwing up tons of apartments will only exacerbate the problem.

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What are some examples of businesses you'd want?

Well, we're getting an HEB. Something like a granite park, shops at legacy, legacy west, or the Star would be nice. A downtown Frisco concept is also ok. Something more master planned.

I read the 150 page study the city of prosper paid for to test feasibility of revamping current downtown… it just isn't going to happen. Terrible infrastructure with ingress and egress and the railroad screws it up. So let's move it west to the DNT.

Yea I understand there comes some MFH with that but it's more planned and the TONS of MFH zoned just to the south at 380/DNT can support that with population density.

Instead, they're going to sell it off in 40 acre slugs so some Chinese or Indian developer comes in, throws up some 4 story apartments with a corny name, adds a Cheesecake Factory at the perimeter. Puts a nail salon, UPS store and a jersey mikes in the bottom and calls it good.

I'm already starting to plan our exit strategy… also, we're getting invaded up here just like Frisco. Where the hell do they keep coming from.

I'm curious where is your exit strategy to? Would you leave DFW? I am in prosper as well and have contemplated what a move would be and north is about the only direction i would pursue. I just can't get past how far away and how much a PITA it would be to get into frisco/plano/dallas from Pilot Point, Tioga or Gunter.

I drove through Gunter looking at land and homesits this weekend and I just can't get on board with the available options. Maybe it changes in a few years when more master planned communities start getting built out.

FightinTAC08 said:

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I'm curious where is your exit strategy to? Would you leave DFW? I am in prosper as well and have contemplated what a move would be and north is about the only direction i would pursue. I just can't get past how far away and how much a PITA it would be to get into frisco/plano/dallas from Pilot Point, Tioga or Gunter.

I drove through Gunter looking at land and homesits this weekend and I just can't get on board with the available options. Maybe it changes in a few years when more master planned communities start getting built out.

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Hard to say right now... Celina still has some VERY wide open spaces, especially out towards Weston.

Commuting becomes an issue for sure as I work on the DNT corridor. That being said, I only go in 2 days a week but who knows how that changes in the long run.

Honestly, if we could find the right neighborhood, I wouldn't mind moving further back in around McKinney/Plano/Frisco area. Wish I could buy a demographic report before doing so. At least there you know what's developed and what isn't.

With young children, schools will always be important but I wouldn't mind sending mine to private if needed. Yes the schools up here are good to great but I don't want mine to be bottom 50% in the class because her classmates are literally whipped at home for school performance.

Gunter (really more north Celina) is an option but the land grab already began. I wouldn't make the move unless it was for a .5 to 1 acre+ lot that had decent access to utilities and roads and those are going for 250k+ right now for just a lot. I'm fully aware the ability to "buy some land and build on it" ship sailed about 5 years ago up the Preston Rd corridor unless you're going PAST Gunter - that ain't happening. Might as well move out of state.

I was born and raised here so I don't think leaving DFW is an option for now. It would take more than me being pissed about what gets built on the DNT for that to happen.

If it were 100% my choice and happiness with family wasn't strained, I'd be in Montana, Idaho, Colorado or Oregon already.

Appreciate your response.

your commentary is very much in line with what i was expecting and my own requirements. I commute into dallas along DNT 3 days a week and i guess could manage something like weston, gunter or even sherman for the right property but like you said if i am that far out i am searching for 1+ acres.

i ran the numbers on nice 1-2 acre properties in Durant area and even if you can past the schools the net tax burden was still higher across the border than a place in DFW.

I may cheer for the 4 day school week in my head and hope to have a small cabin or similar property we can get to 3 days a week to balance the city needs and suburban/rural desires.

No problem.

My career is still somewhat in flux, at least in my head it is. I'm at a point where I've got to figure out what I TRULY want to do long term, or at least something that sets me up for flexibility down the road. I've been doing consulting for most of my career and spent some time in industry.

Pay is good to great now. It's still somewhat challenging but I'm not sold on this "being it" for me. That's how they get you though, pay you enough where you'll never want/be able to leave for something else, initially.

Looking back, we should've just stayed where we were. We'd have <100k on the mortgage at 2.75% and could've bought a lake house or something in the mountains by now...

Instead, we built our dream house. Now everyone on the street is putting in a $200k+ pool. My wife is great and way better of a person than I am and has a good job but she has 0 concept of money.

We live in a million+$ house and she drives a $90k car and, even though she grew up middle class, she thinks that's normal living out here (we're both 34/35). We used to walk to the grocery store in Plano for gods sake.

For now, we just have to stay put with this 2.5% mortgage and let it keep appreciating (up about $400k since we moved in). Chisel away at some new home consumer debt and get a car paid off and we'll be in a better position to maneuver.

Edit to also add on your "cabin" idea. We bought an RV to escape the city and it's been nice. Bought it towards the end of last season and got it down to Kyle field for a couple games. Taking it to CO for 2 weeks this summer. Truly hoping it scratches an itch as travel costs have soared.


Anyways, I guess what I'm trying to say is... yeah, I'd love to pick up and move farther out but is that only going to exacerbate current work/life issues?

Today is the day the Frisco goes over all of this, correct?