Asking a 3rd time? CSISD School Board Approves A Third Attempt To...

56,608 Views | 524 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by welborn
Independence H-D
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It is a safety issue.
Anna Molly
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For the people who want to be willingly obtuse and make snarky comments, here are answers to the questions you keep asking (but probably won't read anyway):

https://www.csisd.org/board/past_bond___v_a_t_r_e_elections/2024_bond_information/frequently_asked_questions

"How did things get so bad?" Because every.single.time. CSISD says money is needed for facility improvements, the willingly obtuse people say "I don't care what they say I'm voting no."

I have voted for bonds when I didn't have kids in the district because I understand the benefit for everyone.
CS78
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Read it. All I see in there is a bunch of marketing. And no one addresses the issue of why the original construction at CSHS wasn't done right. They dont get to just spend a ton of money and then expect more when they waste what was given them.
Tailgate88
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CS78 said:

Read it. All I see in there is a bunch of marketing. And no one addresses the issue of why the original construction at CSHS wasn't done right. They dont get to just spend a ton of money and then expect more when they waste what was given them.
Great idea! Let's punish students with woefully inadequate facilities who can't even get treatment and can't even practice for 1/3 of the season because the facilities are so bad at Consol because one part of a multi-multi-million dollar construction project across town didn't go perfectly. It's definitely those kids' fault.
KidDoc
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I just feel like if I need to fix something at home I budget for it and get it done, I don't take out loans if at all possible especially with current interest rates. It seems like school districts like to take out loan after loand after loan instead of budgeting and planning.
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Red Pear Luke (BCS)
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Sponsor
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What I will say is that we are eventually going to also need to build additional schools. So lets go ahead and issue bonds for Consol, and then next year we can do the same for CSHS and then the year after that we can go ahead and issue one more bond to help build the 3rd Highschool.

All I am asking for is financial discipline like KidDoc said and say how about we budget for this stuff?

Or is that too much forward thinking and we need to put the needs of the student athletes at Consol above the needs of the entire city of College Station under 18 population? And I say this as a resident who is districted to Consol Middle and Highschools.
JMac03
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When is the date to vote for this?
spike427
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JMac03 said:

When is the date to vote for this?


Early voting: April 22-30

Election day: Saturday, May 4
Jbob04
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KidDoc said:

I just feel like if I need to fix something at home I budget for it and get it done, I don't take out loans if at all possible especially with current interest rates. It seems like school districts like to take out loan after loand after loan instead of budgeting and planning.


That's not how it works at public schools and you know that.
KidDoc
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Jbob04 said:

KidDoc said:

I just feel like if I need to fix something at home I budget for it and get it done, I don't take out loans if at all possible especially with current interest rates. It seems like school districts like to take out loan after loand after loan instead of budgeting and planning.


That's not how it works at public schools and you know that.
But why? Why should they take out mortgages indefinitely for things that can be planned for?
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jopatura
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KidDoc said:

Jbob04 said:

KidDoc said:

I just feel like if I need to fix something at home I budget for it and get it done, I don't take out loans if at all possible especially with current interest rates. It seems like school districts like to take out loan after loand after loan instead of budgeting and planning.


That's not how it works at public schools and you know that.
But why? Why should they take out mortgages indefinitely for things that can be planned for?



You can only fund maintenance projects by taking money out of the general fund or by passing a bond.

Bond can only be used for maintenance repairs & construction projects and some technology infrastructure (technically Chromebooks count, but the programs on them don't). I cannot pay a teacher's salary. I cannot buy books for the classroom. I cannot fund an afterschool STEM program.

All of those things I can do out of my general fund though, even if it is saved year over year in the fund balance.

If a district funded a major maintenance or construction project out of their general fund without passing a bond and had other deficits in the classroom, I would be very upset with the district for mismanaging their money and not using every avenue available to fund the district.

Bonds are a way for districts to handle construction projects, maintenance, and upkeep without sacrificing in the classroom.

Now that doesn't mean every bond is perfect and every bond should be passed. That's why voters get a chance to vote on bonds and school districts can't abuse their board & constituents by trying to pigeonhole every single project as a major bond every year.
Mr.Short-termMemory
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KidDoc said:

Jbob04 said:

KidDoc said:

I just feel like if I need to fix something at home I budget for it and get it done, I don't take out loans if at all possible especially with current interest rates. It seems like school districts like to take out loan after loand after loan instead of budgeting and planning.


That's not how it works at public schools and you know that.
But why? Why should they take out mortgages indefinitely for things that can be planned for?

The amount of money needed by school districts for renovations and/or new buildings is MUCH larger than a home repair. You mention "fix something at home..." A large scale renovation is very different than fixing a fence or a roof. Also, the commercial nature and size is very different than household residential costs.

The alternative to what you are saying about the bonds, or loans, is to raise taxes on the front end to put money in savings as you suggest. This would never be acceptable to the general public. Putting millions of taxpayer dollars in savings, keeping it from the taxpayer, for future construction and/or renovation indefinitely is not workable.

In fact, if you pay attention to the Brazos County Commissioners Court, this is a HUGE issue right now. The county judge and some commissioners want higher taxes to put money aside for "surplus," while other commissioners want to keep taxes lower and keep the money in tax payer pockets until needed.

In short, CSISD has done the later. But now they believe it is needed, therefore requesting a bond. The thought they can "budget" to save the amount of money needed is absurd, IMHO. (I guess the district could not hire teachers and staff to teach and coach, and set that money aside. That wouldn't cause an uproar.)
George Costanza
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"All I am asking for is financial discipline like KidDoc said and say how about we budget for this stuff?"

In school finance in Texas bonds are how facilities are paid for; especially in fast growth districts like CSISD has been for the last 15-20 years. The Texas legislature created the system and they are the ones who can change it.
George Costanza
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"Why hasn't necessary maintenance been done along the way? Why isn't the ever-growing revenue from the growing tax base enough to do what is needed? Why are things in a state of disrepair given the massive budget for CSISD every year?"

Who says maintenance isn't done along the way? Nothing lasts forever and things get outgrown.

Because school finance law in Texas doesn't allow for ever growing revenue from an ever growing tax base. CSISD, for example, has had to send millions of dollars to the state the last several years and the state hasn't increased any funding in return.

Close to 85% of CSISD's budget is salaries. From what I've been told and seen online, they are cutting and reorganizing, but there is only so much that can be done without cutting massive positions and programs. Even then, you aren't getting enough out of maintenance and operations budget cuts to pay for commercial construction projects. That's why bonds are used.
CS78
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Tailgate88 said:

CS78 said:

Read it. All I see in there is a bunch of marketing. And no one addresses the issue of why the original construction at CSHS wasn't done right. They dont get to just spend a ton of money and then expect more when they waste what was given them.
Great idea! Let's punish students with woefully inadequate facilities who can't even get treatment and can't even practice for 1/3 of the season because the facilities are so bad at Consol because one part of a multi-multi-million dollar construction project across town didn't go perfectly. It's definitely those kids' fault.

I agree with your sarcasm of not holding the kids responsible. But then that falls back on the admin to show the voters what was done so that it doesn't happen again.

Who inspected the construction?

Was the construction company compensated for the bad work?

Who signed off on paying them?

If they were paid, what legal actions were taken to regain the taxpayers money?

What CSISD employees were fired as a result of millions of dollars being wasted?

If not, are those people still employed in the same role and likely to make the same mistakes again?

Overall, what steps have been taken so that money is not wasted again and again?

It's up to the school district to put those questions to rest if they want people's trust. It would go a lot further than trying to play people's emotions with the "wont you think of the children" card.

MonsterMash13
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The bond vote is on Saturday May 4, so there are no other votes happening that day. The run off elections are being held Tuesday May 7.
George Costanza
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Question: What construction at CSHS wasn't done right and/or fixed by the original contractor? Not saying it wasn't, but I'm not sure what you are referencing.

Comment: CSHS will be pushing 15 years old next year since its construction and it seems about the right time for things to need to be replaced and repaired in a massive commercial complex (its basically a small town of 2,500 people on 61 acres) with significant development around it since it was built. Everyone complains about the condition of Consol at its age before the last two bonds, but then some folks turn around and complain about the current school district leadership (who are mainly Consol grads and parents btw) not allowing CSHS to fall into that same condition?

BTW: CSHS was built two superintendents ago and, other than maybe board member McAdams, there is an entirely new administration team and board of trustees since then.
MonsterMash13
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Unfortunately, the district has done a terrible job with transparency on this bond. We have asked for simple accounting items from CSISD, and for some reason they are not readily available. How is that possible? Are we unaware as to our current debt and what our debt will look like should this bond pass? We have not been allowed to ask questions at public information meetings. Why? They are asking for OUR money, shouldn't we get to ask questions, and request transparency on this issue?

I also find it curious that VLK Architect, the firm that CSISD selected to develop and provide the long-term planning proposal which was referenced by the Board to vote for this bond to again go to tax payers, is also a CSISD Foundation Founder - Level Supporter. Additionally, VLK has received multiple contracts through the District for various buildings.

It seems to me that this is a glaring conflict of interest.
Independence H-D
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Hell of a conspiracy theory. Perhaps you need to change the tin foil in your hat?


If you're going to throw out allegations then back them up. Otherwise you are just a mudslinger.
MonsterMash13
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You sound as if you perhaps went to school at Consol? I did as well, and I agree with everything you said, as upgrades are beyond overdue, but only at Consol. Also, if you attended Consol, I was also there, class of '90somethin. Haha! But if you remember, when Consol moved up to a 5A school in '95, but by the end of the school year, with dropouts and transfers, we were a very robust 4A school. We were barely hangin' on to our 5A title back then.
George Costanza
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"We have asked for simple accounting items from CSISD, and for some reason they are not readily available. How is that possible? Are we unaware as to our current debt and what our debt will look like should this bond pass? We have not been allowed to ask questions at public information meetings. Why? They are asking for OUR money, shouldn't we get to ask questions, and request transparency on this issue?"

That doesn't make sense. Their website contains all kinds of information. For just two examples, https://www.csisd.org/departments/business_services/csisd_debt_transparency and https://www.csisd.org/departments/business_services . There have been meetings where questions were asked. If nothing else, Freedom of Information requests are available.
tamufan
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Two previous posters made these statements:

"In the late 2010's Consol's track was decertified by the UIL - that meant it was not safe enough to hold meets on that track. But the kids had to keep practicing on it until it was fixed."

"It took an old lady falling through the rotted boards in the baseball stands in 2018 (and ending up hospitalized) to get new stands."

Where did CSISD get the money to fix the track and the baseball stands? A bond issue?

Does CSISD have a problem with funding adequate maintenance on its facilities? Why did CSISD not fix the rotted boards in the baseball stands before someone fell through? Why did CSISD allow the track to deteriorate to the point of decertification?

Has the flooding always been a problem at the stadiums -- and if so, why was that acceptable? -- or has it developed over time and not been adequately addressed?

I don't have a dog in this fight, but some of these statements are at least suggestive of a maintenance issue. If you build shiny new things without providing appropriate maintenance, they will more quickly depreciate.
George Costanza
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Haven't heard of the rotted board issue at the baseball field, but it looks like you usually get 7-10 years of use (with maintenance and repairs along the way) from a high school track.

https://sportsvenuecalculator.com/knowledge/running-track/running-track-maintenance-costs-guidelines/
MonsterMash13
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I hugely disagree. I attended Consol, and was a student athlete. I also have nieces who attend Consol and they too are athletes. I know very well what items need repair or expansion.

I am voting "no" for this bond because I do not care for how they are lumping everything together.

CSHS is not in dire need like Consol is. Consol needs the weight room expansion, track repairs, baseball field repairs as well, no artificial turf. I feel like I'm missing another repair they need? BUT if CSISD chose to separate these items rather than lumping them together, I would vote yes on just about all issues pertaining to Consol.
MonsterMash13
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Independence H-D, this is all found on CSISD's public website, so it isn't a conspiracy theory. It couldn't be further from mudslinging. Maybe I can loan my tin foil hat to you?
doubledog
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MonsterMash13 said:

I hugely disagree. I attended Consol, and was a student athlete. I also have nieces who attend Consol and they too are athletes. I know very well what items need repair or expansion.

I am voting "no" for this bond because I do not care for how they are lumping everything together.

CSHS is not in dire need like Consol is. Consol needs the weight room expansion, track repairs, baseball field repairs as well, no artificial turf. I feel like I'm missing another repair they need? BUT if CSISD chose to separate these items rather than lumping them together, I would vote yes on just about all issues pertaining to Consol.
I agree..I will vote no this time. Let's fix Consol first (I don't want to punish the kids). The College Station School Board can thus repackage the bond just for Consol repairs and upgrades, however we need to vote this bond down, now.


Tailgate88
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Red Pear Luke (BCS) said:

What I will say is that we are eventually going to also need to build additional schools. So lets go ahead and issue bonds for Consol, and then next year we can do the same for CSHS and then the year after that we can go ahead and issue one more bond to help build the 3rd Highschool.

All I am asking for is financial discipline like KidDoc said and say how about we budget for this stuff?

Or is that too much forward thinking and we need to put the needs of the student athletes at Consol above the needs of the entire city of College Station under 18 population? And I say this as a resident who is districted to Consol Middle and Highschools.
Current projections by CSISD's demographer that were published as part of the previous bond proposal show that a new high school will not be needed for at least ten years. The recently approved expansions to both schools are more than adequate to house our high schoolers for the coming decade.
Tailgate88
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CS78 said:

Tailgate88 said:

CS78 said:

Read it. All I see in there is a bunch of marketing. And no one addresses the issue of why the original construction at CSHS wasn't done right. They dont get to just spend a ton of money and then expect more when they waste what was given them.
Great idea! Let's punish students with woefully inadequate facilities who can't even get treatment and can't even practice for 1/3 of the season because the facilities are so bad at Consol because one part of a multi-multi-million dollar construction project across town didn't go perfectly. It's definitely those kids' fault.

I agree with your sarcasm of not holding the kids responsible. But then that falls back on the admin to show the voters what was done so that it doesn't happen again.

Who inspected the construction?

Was the construction company compensated for the bad work?

Who signed off on paying them?

If they were paid, what legal actions were taken to regain the taxpayers money?

What CSISD employees were fired as a result of millions of dollars being wasted?

If not, are those people still employed in the same role and likely to make the same mistakes again?

Overall, what steps have been taken so that money is not wasted again and again?

It's up to the school district to put those questions to rest if they want people's trust. It would go a lot further than trying to play people's emotions with the "wont you think of the children" card.


You're throwing out some pretty huge general accusations that seem to imply the entire construction of CSHS was botched or something. As pointed out above, this is a nearly fifteen year old school and it was a massive project. Besides the drainage issues, what else are you referring to? If you have information about other botched construction issues at CSHS please share.

What "millions of dollars" were wasted? Please give us some examples of money being "wasted again and again". This is an honest question, I fully admit I may not be aware of these issues of which you speak.

Stupe
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Ribbed Paultz said:

Who cares about whether or not the facilities are top notch or not? As long as it's not a safety issue, there is no reason to upgrade.

Allocate the money for better academic facilities and programs, you know, things that ACTUALLY benefit all students and society as a whole. These vanity projects for athletic facilities benefit the chosen few.

I will be voting NO again
The "chosen" few?
You mean the kids that put in a bunch of extra work after school and on weekends in order to be more well rounded? They aren't "chosen", they work at it.

You might want to do a little research about the athletes at both high schools. All of my kids are in athletics and other activities.
They are also in advanced classes in every subject that offers them. Most of the other students in those classes are also athletes. It's the same at both Consol and CSHS.
There are exceptions, but the majority of athletes at both high schools are outstanding students that graduate with honors.
That's in addition to the extra work that they put into their various sports. That isn't chosen. That is earned.

CSISD as a whole is considered at competitive school district and students that are outside of the top quarter still get admission to A&M and Texas if those are their schools of choice.

I know that doesn't fit your narrative about athletes and academics. But those are facts.

The other fact is that those "chosen few" across all sports and grade levels were in the majority when a survey was done prior to the last rezoning. More student athletes than non-athletes.

And, it IS a safety issue. Consol needs more room for trainers, lockers, and a larger weight room. All of those facilities help with the conditioning and rehab for students athletes (the students that are in the majority)

I'm not a Consol parent.
Stupe
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MonsterMash13 said:

I hugely disagree. I attended Consol, and was a student athlete. I also have nieces who attend Consol and they too are athletes. I know very well what items need repair or expansion.

I am voting "no" for this bond because I do not care for how they are lumping everything together.

CSHS is not in dire need like Consol is. Consol needs the weight room expansion, track repairs, baseball field repairs as well, no artificial turf. I feel like I'm missing another repair they need? BUT if CSISD chose to separate these items rather than lumping them together, I would vote yes on just about all issues pertaining to Consol.
That is a perfect example of cutting of your nose to spite your face.

I really do not understand that logic.
Independence H-D
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In reality, these projects will essentially equalize the facilities at both College Station and Consol.
Stupe
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That's what needs to be done. That is why a lot of parents with no ties to Consol are pushing for a bond that primarily is for Consol.
Stupe
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Red Pear Luke (BCS) said:

What I will say is that we are eventually going to also need to build additional schools. So lets go ahead and issue bonds for Consol, and then next year we can do the same for CSHS and then the year after that we can go ahead and issue one more bond to help build the 3rd Highschool.

All I am asking for is financial discipline like KidDoc said and say how about we budget for this stuff?

Or is that too much forward thinking and we need to put the needs of the student athletes at Consol above the needs of the entire city of College Station under 18 population? And I say this as a resident who is districted to Consol Middle and Highschools.
Wow.

A bunch of parents that have kids that go to or are zoned to go to CSHS have signs in their yards and are going door to door in their neighborhoods to garner support for this bond. Neighborhoods that are zoned for CSHS.
They are even pointing out how much Consol needs these improvements and that they are good for all athletes in the district. The group that came to my door didn't even say where their kids went until I asked them. NONE of them went to or were going to Consol.

I and other posters on here have been pushing this and using Consol as the basis for why we are voting for this bond.

Now we have posters saying "Don't worry about CSHS, just fix Consol"

That makes me wonder why that effort should be there.

doubledog
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Stupe said:

Red Pear Luke (BCS) said:

What I will say is that we are eventually going to also need to build additional schools. So lets go ahead and issue bonds for Consol, and then next year we can do the same for CSHS and then the year after that we can go ahead and issue one more bond to help build the 3rd Highschool.

All I am asking for is financial discipline like KidDoc said and say how about we budget for this stuff?

Or is that too much forward thinking and we need to put the needs of the student athletes at Consol above the needs of the entire city of College Station under 18 population? And I say this as a resident who is districted to Consol Middle and Highschools.
Wow.

A bunch of parents that have kids that go to or are zoned to go to CSHS have signs in their yards and are going door to door in their neighborhoods to garner support for this bond. Neighborhoods that are zoned for CSHS.
They are even pointing out how much Consol needs these improvements and that they are good for all athletes in the district. The group that came to my door didn't even say where their kids went until I asked them. NONE of them went to or were going to Consol.

I and other posters on here have been pushing this and using Consol as the basis for why we are voting for this bond.

Now we have posters saying "Don't worry about CSHS, just fix Consol"

That makes me wonder why that effort should be there.


It is fine, we are doing it for the all the kids right? Or so I am told.
Tailgate88
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Independence H-D said:

In reality, these projects will essentially equalize the facilities at both College Station and Consol.
Bingo. And that is what the parents and students from both schools and CSISD administration want.
 
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