AggieYankee1 said:

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trouble said:

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I think there are some of us who just want the facts delivered without a bias either way.

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Meaning you want to hear the truth the way you want to hear truth. Your bias is built-in.

If you cannot see the Texas is headed towards absolute disaster come the fall then there's not much anything anybody can tell you except how great Trump really is! And the the virus is fake.

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Duuuuuuuude, I haven't voted Republican in almost 20 years and I don't think it's fake.

Again, your arguments are not found ANYWHERE on this thread.

I want to see numbers and facts without the whole sky is falling routine on the news.

AggieYankee1 said:

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Me - The sky is blue

You - Take your fake news to the politics board - this is reserved for those the deny the truth!

Have fun

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I think denying the truth is a little bit hard of claim to make, when the daily discussion begins with literally a cut and paste of the information the health department provides, followed by 1-2 people posting links to updated spreadsheets and graphs providing open source analysis. And there are certainly people on here that skew more towards caution, which is total fine to have rational discussion about.

Much of this centers around how you view the current pandemic. Should the goal be to minimize the number of cases absolutely, without care to the economy, other health issues (medical and psychological), and at the total expense of freedom of choice?

Or is the goal to manage the crisis, treating this a complex, multivariate problem... making sure that undue suffering from hospital overruns or not protecting the vulnerable is avoided? This latter goal is what was told to us was the point of shelter in place. We did it and we flattened the curve. Is the rise in hospitalizations and positivity rate cause to pause the reopen so we can regroup? In my opinion, probably so (I'll get disagreement from both sides of the spectrum for sure), but that doesn't mean it's time to "shut 'er all down until there's a vaccine!"

I've been reading this thread since the beginning, and while it was plausible to be skeptical of typical news media coverage, or at least not really see things as terribly threatening 2 months ago because we're small and didn't have many cases, that's clearly changed.

I've read people on this board yell about "doomers" (aka anyone who sees anything negative in the data being presented), and be blase about others' health by suggesting we get it all over with at once with a big statewide chicken pox party. Saying that maybe we should measure the pandemic by this measure or that measure, whichever one made it seem most like things were not getting bad. Basically - lots of denial that this could be a big deal, and the news was saying one thing, and this board leaning the other way, so I had to find out for myself and put that spreadsheet and graphs together.

It was plain once the health departments numbers were put in a readable format that, no, I am not crazy, things have gotten steadily worse since people decided to give up at the end of April. I've been exasperated at the way people on this thread have been treated all of this, but it's like this train wreck I can't stop watching.

What people should keep in mind is that we have a lot of cases in the pipeline prior to any countermeasure used. Also, its pretty likely that we won't slow this down as fast as the first time because we're not shutting down. it is quite obvious that the general public here is not capable of doing this on their own. The opportunity to responsibly wear a mask on your own without being mandated was there and it is pretty damn evident that people did not do that or we wouldn't be seeing the increases we are currently seeing.

I know that a lot of people in this thread worry about pessimistic thinking, but frankly there is little hope for optimism at this time. The overall case number is increasing rapidly, the hospitalizations are following suit, and thankfully deaths have not risen at the same pace but some increase in deaths is already priced in. Because we cannot stop on a dime with regards to the pandemic, it is time for things like the mask order.

Yes, our hospitals are not currently overwhelmed. But we're closer to that happening and we need to act accordingly. This doesn't mean its the end of the world, but if you're not concerned currently then you simply aren't paying attention.

In some ways, it still is. Big local headlines when cases hit 1000. Almost nothing when recoveries did.

It's real. It's out there. A lot of us are going to get it.

Most who get it aren't going to need hospitalization. That's part of the message that didn't (and still doesn't) get much airplay locally or nationally.

If they had just said early on, we really don't know exactly how this is going to play out and just reported numbers, I think more people would still be listening and willing to be educated.

While both hospitalizations and deaths have increased, it hasn't been close to the same rate as positive tests.

Everyone still needs to be washing their hands, wearing a mask when they can, limiting social interaction according to their risk level and that of those they are in close contact with.

I'll agree with you that the news is mostly negative, but I also think the general public isn't capable of responsibly processing positive news. If the news has been mostly negative, and we're STILL back at this point because people were too careless, I think that speaks volumes.

To say that I'm disappointed in how people have handled this is a vast understatement.

Agreed. My needs to be social ass has managed to stay away from people and survive somehow. It's not fun but it can be done.

The sky is falling routine turned a lot of people off and they stopped listening.

Agree with K2T2.
Let's face it, a lot of us over 50/60/70 have put in the long hours on the job, time with the family over the years, tolerated in-laws, and are looking toward retirement (or have already arrived) and enjoying grandkids and great g'kids. We aren't gamblers for the most part. Why would we want to just go out and get the exposure over by mingling with people who most surely have this virus? Maybe the odds are good that we won't die. Maybe not even get very sick. But why chance it when wearing a mask may get us closer to a vaccine? Yeah, I know driving may have a higher probability of getting me killed but I also have a lot to say about that by driving defensively, etc.
In my eyes, the whole 'infringement on my rights by requiring me to wear a mask' argument is BS. The community of your neighbors require you to wear clothes when you go to the store. Possess a DL when you drive. Be 21 if you purchase alcohol. Why not this temporary mask requirement?
Or you can be like the 3 we saw in Kroger today not wearing one. One elderly lady who may not have known what day it was. An obese person (descriptive only because of the risk to obese people) riding a cart and the 40ish, very fit dude with his chest thrust out who was walking around staring people down, just daring someone to challenge him.
It's not so hard to just try and help each other out. Can't believe I typed that as I almost puke every time I hear 'we are all in this together'. But I guess we are.

trouble said:

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The sky is falling routine turned a lot of people off and they stopped listening.

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Still listening. But stopped believing almost everything from every source. Sad.

My 2 1/2 center worth: this is a new virus that isn't acting "the way it's supposed to." My doctor first warned me about surface contact transmission as worse, then about aerosalized transmission. Like everyone he was updating as new data surfaced.

The randomness is what throws people off and unsettles people. Yeah you'll likely be fine. Or you'll be a 25 year old who needs a lung transplant. Maybe you'll get better in 5 days. Or three months later you'll still be having roller coaster symptoms. We don't know. It's new. We KNOW what the cold and flu does, how it proceeds. This is different.

We are also hearing more and more from the "long termers"...folks "recovering" (many young, many with no underlying health conditions) suffering for months with bizarre, recurring, and often debilitating symptoms.

So I think patience and understanding is in order. Less shaming, belittling, etc. and more sharing of real hard facts, data, discoveries, etc.

One problem is the media highlights every single oddball case of it, and will often leave out details about preexisting conditions of the patients who suffer the extreme cases. This leads some to think that the vast majority of cases are of that level, when only a very small number are.

The 25yo who needed a lung transplant had been taking immunosuppressants, but this was left out of most articles. Anyone who is on immunosuppressants and gets a virus, not just this one, is at a much higher risk of complications than even people in their 80s and 90s.

FlyRod said:

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My 2 1/2 center worth: this is a new virus that isn't acting "the way it's supposed to." My doctor first warned me about surface contact transmission as worse, then about aerosalized transmission. Like everyone he was updating as new data surfaced.

The randomness is what throws people off and unsettles people. Yeah you'll likely be fine. Or you'll be a 25 year old who needs a lung transplant. Maybe you'll get better in 5 days. Or three months later you'll still be having roller coaster symptoms. We don't know. It's new. We KNOW what the cold and flu does, how it proceeds. This is different.

We are also hearing more and more from the "long termers"...folks "recovering" (many young, many with no underlying health conditions) suffering for months with bizarre, recurring, and often debilitating symptoms.

So I think patience and understanding is in order. Less shaming, belittling, etc. and more sharing of real hard facts, data, discoveries, etc.

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This is where we need to be. Unfortunately all we seem to have are two polarized sides:
The "We must shut everything down until the very last person is infected recovers and then we will all be safe"
And the
"This is not a real, and screw you, i ain't wearing no mask.. "

Both are 100% wrong, but feel they are 100% right snd they scream the loudest.

And those of us in the middle are just so.damn.tired of fighting with/talking to/educating both sides.

The current atmosphere of news reporting doesn't help matters either.

Everything, no matter how accurate or not, gets reported and almost nothing is said when the same study or report is retracted. It's a rush to get the next story out.

It leaves people fatigued and not knowing what to believe.

Though this is a long video, it does give what I think is a good look at what is happening in hospitals across Texas in urban areas. This one is from Methodist in San Antonio. Moreover it shows that adding beds for COVID patients is anything but normal.

Check out this story on CNN: https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/07/02/texas-hospital-crowded-coronavirus-marquez-pkg-newday-vpx.cnn

I don't trust the CNN's and Fox News of the world to provide an unslanted view...

I know, I know...the politics board is over there...

No disrespect, but these days it feels like the politics board is over there, and here and there and there...

Quote:

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And it turns out - we were right and if we do have to shut down again it is because of people calling this 'the flu'. Lying through their teeth for a political cause. Namely re-electing the incumbent.

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Complains about straw man arguments. Dumps the biggest straw man argument this thread has ever seen.

It would be great if this discussion thread could go back to the original focus - B/CS number of cases update. I have enjoyed coming to this discussion every day to see what is going on locally with numbers of new cases, tests, and hospitalizations. Can we move some of the more hot-button emotional discussions to another thread and leave this to an objective discussion of current local numbers??

MiMi said:

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It would be great if this discussion thread could go back to the original focus - B/CS number of cases update. I have enjoyed coming to this discussion every day to see what is going on locally with numbers of new cases, tests, and hospitalizations. Can we move some of the more hot-button emotional discussions to another thread and leave this to an objective discussion of current local numbers??

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Yes, this, please.

AggieYankee1 said:

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91_Aggie said:

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FlyRod said:

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My 2 1/2 center worth: this is a new virus that isn't acting "the way it's supposed to." My doctor first warned me about surface contact transmission as worse, then about aerosalized transmission. Like everyone he was updating as new data surfaced.

The randomness is what throws people off and unsettles people. Yeah you'll likely be fine. Or you'll be a 25 year old who needs a lung transplant. Maybe you'll get better in 5 days. Or three months later you'll still be having roller coaster symptoms. We don't know. It's new. We KNOW what the cold and flu does, how it proceeds. This is different.

We are also hearing more and more from the "long termers"...folks "recovering" (many young, many with no underlying health conditions) suffering for months with bizarre, recurring, and often debilitating symptoms.

So I think patience and understanding is in order. Less shaming, belittling, etc. and more sharing of real hard facts, data, discoveries, etc.

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This is where we need to be. Unfortunately all we seem to have are two polarized sides:
The "We must shut everything down until the very last person is infected recovers and then we will all be safe"
And the
"This is not a real, and screw you, i ain't wearing no mask.. "

Both are 100% wrong, but feel they are 100% right snd they scream the loudest.

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Tell me and show me where anyone is calling for a shut down... that is a straw man argument used to deflect. Period.

We are simply calling out the sheer stupidity of opening up as fast as we did - like everyone was screaming about. And it turns out - we were right and if we do have to shut down again it is because of people calling this 'the flu'. Lying through their teeth for a political cause. Namely re-electing the incumbent.

Now that we are in this hole - we have to shut down the bars and freeze opening until this crap is under control. Now our staff can not get the rest they need before colleges open and schools open. They are gonna be worn down for months until there is a vaccine.
Our first responders are going to be going through hell for about the next 6 months.

Again - no one is saying 'shut it all down' again. Merely that those that said open it up need stopped being listened to because they were flat out wrong.

They were wrong.

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Hmm, didn't even mention you, and you took it as it was directed towards you.

And then you came back with a "We are simply" as if you have people backing your same logic. Cheap way to make it sound like there is a groundswell of people with your same "chicken little panic" stance.