Good deal!

I'm still waiting on my call

Finally found out why I never got my call. Gun Corp's had the can under the wrong name with no phone number.... At least I got my Surefire now!

Join Brazos Valley NFA on Facebook.

Those that have received the products they ordered, did you do so through contacting Spirit of Texas Bank or contacting Joel Crutcher?

I pre-ordered a rifle from Gun Corps last year (Desert Tech MDR). The rifle is not yet in production, but I have paid in full. I am trying to figure out if/when/how I can obtain a refund or the rifle when they begin shipping.

Unfortunately I do not have a serial number as the gun is not yet in production. Contacting the manufacturer is a good idea! I will try that. I already tried to make contact with Sprit of Texas Bank (waiting for a call back) as well as Joel from GC (email account is now undeliverable). If I make any progress I will post it. They supposedly had quite a few MDR pre-orders. I doubt I am the only one that got hung out to dry. If any other MDR pre-orders have been successful making contact please let me know.

From my experience with the whole situation, Spirit of Texas is in control of all the on hand inventory only. Have a feeling orders are a lost cause. Hopefully you paid by credit card and could contest the charge.
From what I read online the bankruptcy proceedings are still ongoing so you may have some hope depending on how it ends.
And FYI I hear Joel is MIA and not talking to anyone or returning phone calls

I had not even thought about contesting through my credit card company. Thanks for the advice!

Has anyone on here been so unfortunate to have consigned guns with them?

As of 01August I'm out $15k worth of guns and accessories that were not in the inventory, and Joel had not turned over his FFL Log Book.

Supposedly ATF is interested in what they had referred to as a purely civil matter.

If the business didn't have the weapons in the inventory, then it wouldn't be surprising that ATF is interested since the licensee has to record it in the acquisition and deposition record, right?

I think it was stated earlier that if a business is dissolved the owner has thirty days to surrender their records to the ATF. If theowner has not done this, then there could be an investigation?

Good luck to you; hope you can get your stuff back.

mrsquid said:

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Has anyone on here been so unfortunate to have consigned guns with them?

As of 01August I'm out $15k worth of guns and accessories that were not in the inventory, and Joel had not turned over his FFL Log Book.

Supposedly ATF is interested in what they had referred to as a purely civil matter.

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Yikes! Crazy how they just closed.

I have recovered one weapon, apparently Joel sold the others and kept the money, so my weapons passed to innocent buyers.

My chance of recovering the sold weapons is nil, and my only recourse is to get the money from Joel. I heard that the total loss on the closure was somewhere around $300K and Joel has no assets I can get to, so I'll deduct the losses on my taxes.

I hope that everyone else will eventually be made whole.

Why? Is bankruptcy illegal? I guess if he illegally sold weapons, that's a whole other thing. However, if he sold the guns legally, and just didn't pay his bills, then he will have court protection I would guess.

Sucks. I'm sorry for the outcome for those of you who got ripped off

I guess it would depend on the way the paperwork was stated that was signed by the consinger.
I would assume that the owner somehow handed ownership over to the person selling the firearm, so that he could take care of the sale and paperwork without having to have the owner come in and do all that stuff.
I would also assume that there was some contractual mumbo-jumbo about, once sold, the proceeds would be passed back to the consigner, minus a fee.
Basically, the consigner is a liability, or account payable, to the person that is selling the firearm, and the seller just chose not to honor that liability. No different than Sears going bankrupt and not paying back Amana for all the refrigerators they had sold, but didn't pay for.

I really have no idea, just spit balling it here, though.

harrierdoc said:

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I guess it would depend on the way the paperwork was stated that was signed by the consinger.
I would assume that the owner somehow handed ownership over to the person selling the firearm, so that he could take care of the sale and paperwork without having to have the owner come in and do all that stuff.
I would also assume that there was some contractual mumbo-jumbo about, once sold, the proceeds would be passed back to the consigner, minus a fee.
Basically, the consigner is a liability, or account payable, to the person that is selling the firearm, and the seller just chose not to honor that liability. No different than Sears going bankrupt and not paying back Amana for all the refrigerators they had sold, but didn't pay for.

I really have no idea, just spit balling it here, though.

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Exactly this. The majority of these issues will be civil not criminal.

ATF may have some administrative fines they can assess.

"I have recovered one weapon, apparently Joel sold the others and kept the money, so my weapons passed to innocent buyers."

That sounds like joel sold weapons to people that were not his and kept the money... That would be theft.

which is a federal crime, especially with firearms...

again, that depends on the way the paperwork is worded when they left the firearms with him. You are making assumptions. You may be right, but I'd bet the verbage protects him from this type of fallout - if he was smart.

mrsquid said:

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I have recovered one weapon, apparently Joel sold the others and kept the money, so my weapons passed to innocent buyers.

My chance of recovering the sold weapons is nil, and my only recourse is to get the money from Joel. I heard that the total loss on the closure was somewhere around $300K and Joel has no assets I can get to, so I'll deduct the losses on my taxes.

I hope that everyone else will eventually be made whole.

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Assuming that the paperwork you filled out did not in any way transfer ownership to the dealer I would assume that you can simply go to the local police and file theft charges against Joel and claim that the firearms are stolen property. Give the serial numbers to the cops and have them listed as stolen. No matter how innocent the buyers were they can not retain possession of stolen property and you could recover IF Joel kept a list or a bill of sale. If the police won't accept the charges then go to the sheriff , then to the Constables..on and on ...file with any and all law enforcement you can dig up till somebody accepts charges. Contact ATF and file a stolen firearms report . Hopefully something will stick.

hd:
the guy said his gun was on consignment. When one does that, the FFL / dealer puts it into their 'book' to make possession legal and then puts it up for sale for the OP who is still the owner. It doesn't mean the dealer owns the gun. If so, he would have paid OP for the gun and the OP wouldn't be complaining. If the dealer, after closing his business sells the gun and doesn't give the owner the money, that should be theft. Why are you taking up for Joel?

I'm not taking up for anyone. It just seems to me that people are suggesting that someone should face criminal charges for, what seems to me to be, a civil matter.

I'm no lawyer, just discussing.

I don't know this guy, nor am I aware that I know of anyone who was wronged by him.

Do you have a personal interest?

The situation could fit the definition of criminal fraud, dependent on what information was passed between GC and the individuals.
If an inquiry was made ("has my firearm sold?"), and GC lied about the situation, how should that be considered legally?

As my previous post clarified, there are specific criminal statutes regarding automobiles.

Property was transferred (possession, not ownership) with the contractual agreement to sell the items. Contracts are civil issues. Criminal theft laws deal with lawful possession. Not whether the person in legal possession of the property is the owner. I get that is a muddy situation, but no, it is not theft.

Edit: If he sold the gun and did not turn over money to the owner of the gun, it does get even stickier, but given the fact that the business was failing, it's still more likely than not that a criminal case would not be accepted. A big issue lies with proof/burden of proof.

How is this situation any different than a dealer buying guns from a distributor on credit (a contractual obligation), selling them, and not paying the bill?

He did commit a crime by not returning property or funds:

Criminal conversion: Embezzlement is a crime against ownership; i.e. voiding the right of the owner to control the disposition and use of the property entrusted to the embezzler. ... If the thief merely had custody, the crime at common law is larceny.

So start chasing him.

Where are you quoting that from? Conversion and larceny are not crimes in Texas. When I say crime. I mean a criminal offense listed in the Penal Code.

Larceny is defined as theft of personal property. TX charged with theft.

There is more to it than someone merely having possession as you stated.

In the end, the people who feel wronged need to seek the advice of an attorney for their final answer.

Any updates on this story?