I've not known a lot of people to hunt with a .308, most use .270 and 30-06, how do you like it?

Killed a lot of deer with a .243 seiko...awesome gun. Real surefire and i could drive nails with that gun. have a 30-06 BAR i shoot now.

Remember - this post is about someone buying their first "deer" gun, who may also hunt Elk. I think we can all agree that a .243 is just too small for taking an Elk.

Great exchange on this.

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am in the process of buying a deer gun for the first time. I only hunt a few times a year but I want something that will last and will kill something when hit. I was told by a guy at Cabelas that the 243 is all I would need but another guy at church told me a 243 is more of a varmint gun. I also hunt in the brush country and owuld like something that would kill the deer in its tracks preferably. Will a 243 do it?

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Actually, he didn't mention elk, but he did mention brush country. .243 is a very good whitetail round, but I wouldn't consider it a brush gun. A 30-30 is one of the all time brush guns for whitetail and is a very caliber for shots 200 yards and under. You can add a few more yards with the Leverevolution ammo, but round and flat nosed bullets don't deflect from brush as severly as spire pointed bullets

I may have misunderstood. I thought the mention of brush country was a "I don't want to have to try to track a deer through thick brush, I want him to drop in his tracks" kinda thing.

I'm sure you've figured out by now that everyone on this board has their own favorite round (mine happens to be .25-06).

I still think your best "all around" Texas deer rifle is a .270. Easily accessible, affordable ammo and you can find that caliber in almost any brand rifle you could ever want, from cheap as dirt to thousands and thousands of dollars.

(My next suggestion to you would be to spend more on your optics than you do on your rifle!!)

Heck, screw everything else and get one of these: .338 Winchester Magnum


That being said, I do most of my deer hunting with a Remington 700 in .270 Winchester, and feel that it is about the perfect deer rifle. Although I'm thinking about using the .338 on a deer later this season. Might not be much left of it after a 225 grain slug hits it, but it'll be dead.

[This message has been edited by Log (edited 11/29/2006 8:25p).]

I prefer a 300 Rem Ultra Mag myself. At least when I am shooting over 600 yards. Nailed a doe at 789 yards a couple of years ago and want to try a little farther(maybe 1000). It would make deerburger 200 and under.

[This message has been edited by str8shot1000 (edited 11/29/2006 8:32p).]

A 25-06 is a perfect gun. It is slightly more powerful than the .243 which a .243 is more than enough to kill a deer in Texas. Don't waste your rime with a .270 or 30-06. People get them because that is all they know and have never tried anything else. A 25-06 will have plenty of knockdown power and not kill you shoulder when you are sighting it in. There is nothing worse than anticipating the kick of the gun when you are trying to shoot. You will miss every time. If you don;t plan on hunting anything but Texas whitetail, a .243 or 25-06 is plenty.

A 25-06 is a perfect gun. It is slightly more powerful than the .243 which a .243 is more than enough to kill a deer in Texas. Don't waste your rime with a .270 or 30-06. People get them because that is all they know and have never tried anything else. A 25-06 will have plenty of knockdown power and not kill you shoulder when you are sighting it in. There is nothing worse than anticipating the kick of the gun when you are trying to shoot. You will miss every time. If you don;t plan on hunting anything but Texas whitetail, a .243 or 25-06 is plenty.

Then go .25WSM. 250 extra FPS, less recoil too.

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Remember - this post is about someone buying their first "deer" gun, who may also hunt Elk. I think we can all agree that a .243 is just too small for taking an Elk.

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Correct sir, I think most of us have just been focusing on the Whitetail aspect.

.243 is too small for Elk. In fact, I would push to say .270 is too small on longer shots. 7mm STW, 7MM Mag, or .300 Mag should be the standard you are looking at. You have to keep in mind on deer you will be taking most likely shorter shots, 100-200 yards max most of the time. Elk you can easily be over 300 yards.

That being said, for the argument on 300-400 yards being too long for a .243, might want to check your ballistics charts, as a .243 carries more velocity and has less drop than a .270 at the 300-400 yd marks. Remember, speed kills. But I still wouldn't use it on an Elk at that range.

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scmel - a .243 is not enough gun for whitetail out to 400 yards, much less Elk. It just doesn't carry enough velocity and downrange punch to do the job unless you make the perfect hit. IMO - you are taking an unethical shot at a whitetail at that distance wit ha .243. I have done this from experience and dropped one with 4 solid chest hits at 350 yards. I then had to trail it a bit. When I cut it upon, two of the rounds were "stuck" in the chest wall on the entrance side, and the other two rounds lodged on one lung.

Be smart - get at least a .270/.270WSM or 300WSM. You have a a much greater chance of a one shot kill with these calibers than the .243 and less trailng for sure. I have a .270WSM for deer and a .300WSM for ELk/Bear and they are both awesome with the right loads. I will never "dropped down" to anything less. If recoil is an issue, the .270 is sweet, but if even that is too much, I wouldn't go less than a .25-06. My .243 is goingt to my boy as a fist rifle.

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The last white tail I took, I ranged at 318 yards. She never took a step after the round struck her. And the round punched through her, all I found was the copper jacket in her body cavity.

I think many of you are underestimating what a .243 is capable of, honestly. Bullet placement is far more important than the caliber, and a round with decent velocity (coupled with the correct bullet selection for your purpose) and good placement will do wonders for you.

I, too, believed that a .243 was way to light for elk hunting, but like I said, I've had over a dozen people out here tell me that they use a .243 for elk hunting in Arizona. At first I thought they were just messing with me, but they were serious. One of the guys I worked with gave his wife a .243 several years ago and she has taken over a dozen elk with hers with nary a problem. Would I take a shot on an elk over 200 yards with a .243? Probably not, but anthing under I have been assured that the round is more than capable of dropping the game. That being said, should I ever get drawn, I'm taking my .45-70 with me. Mostly because I've never dropped big game with it (unless you count disintegrating a jackrabbit "big" game).

It's a very capable round if you get over the idea that anything under .30 or .270 caliber is "too light".

I've personally taken white tail with my .243 from ranges as short as 90 yards out to just under 350 yards with absolutely no problems. But then again, I also don't take shots that I am not comfortable with either, or shots that could potentially have drawbacks if placement isn't going to be optimal. It's more about shot placement than anything with me, though I do consider a .243 the minimum round to hunt white tail with if any shot is going to potentially be over about 100 yards.

Everybody has their own opinion, and that's great. Nobody has listed a caliber here that is a bad caliber by any stretch. The "best" deer rifle and caliber is the same as the Ford vs. Dodge vs. Chevy argument - everybody has their favorites. As long as you are comfortable with your caliber and know the limitations of your rifle, no one caliber is really all that much better or worse than another when it comes down to it.

But for an all around caliber, my vote stays with the .243. You can take smaller game such as coyote, as well as medium to large game such as white tail out to respectable distances with it. The ammo is relatively cheap and plentiful, it is inherently an accurate round, and there are dozens of firearm manufacturers out there that make quality products in this caliber.

i like the .243 for deer

Just buy a rifle from every caliber, from .17 up to .50. Then you can run your own tests.



Anyone shoot a .300 SAUM? I'm considering purchasing the DPMS AR in that caliber.

.243 is a horrible deer round, and I suggest you all give me your .243s for $1 a piece, just to get them out of your way. Shooting a .243 also makes baby Jesus cry and who really wants to be responsible for that?

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Shooting a .243 also makes baby Jesus cry and who really wants to be responsible for that?

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lol, Kramer....
Somewhere in Heaven, though, I picture God waving his finger at you(like Clinton during his Lewinski fiasco)saying..."Kramer!"

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Actually, he didn't mention elk, but he did mention brush country. .243 is a very good whitetail round, but I wouldn't consider it a brush gun. A 30-30 is one of the all time brush guns for whitetail and is a very caliber for shots 200 yards and under. You can add a few more yards with the Leverevolution ammo, but round and flat nosed bullets don't deflect from brush as severly as spire pointed bullets

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This is not an entirely true argument. Several years ago, in either G&A or Sports Afield or one of the other outdoor magazines, they did an experiment on what is the best brush round out there.

Surprisingly, the .30-30 ranked as one of the lower performing rounds. I was surprised, but if memory serves me correct, the smaller caliber rounds with significantly high velocities performed better than the .30-30 and similar rounds did. The .45-70 and similar rounds (large, medium velocity) only performed marginally better than the .30-30 did.

The idea that a .30-30 is a great brush round stems mostly from the fact that it has been used extensively because of it's history, the limited range shots in brush country, and the availability that it has seen through the years. It's definitely a good round for under 200 yards, but it's not necessarily the best "brush country" round out there. I want to say that the .25-06 was the best performing round when shooting through the brush, but like I said, it's been 4-5 years since I read the article.

I agree that the 30-30 isn't the best brush gun around. What I failed to clarify is it is probably the most widely gun for that purpose. Sometimes my fingers don't type out what I have in my mind. There's little doubt a big .44 or .45 caliber slug will penetrate through brush much better.

I will not be hunting any elk at all. It will be used for only deer. Thank you for all of your advice. I am going this weekend to buy the gun. I still am not sure what to get. I will proabbly stay with the .243. Thanks again!

If you want a good brush gun caliber that will provide a sure kill almost every time (unless you hit 'em in the hoof), go with the .50 Beowulf. (and let me know how it shoots, I'm still planning on getting one at some point)

Go to Carter's Country (or similar store)and ask all of gun staff what they think. it won't be .243, it will be .270 or 30-06 I predict.

What kind of hunter are you? I get to take only 2-4 trips per year and only hunt whitetail

I was 10 when my dad bought me a Remington .243 and 21 years later I am still using it.
About 10 years ago all I thought all I wanted was a bigger gun than a .243 but then somewhere along the line I reasoned that the only big game animal I hunt are Texas whitetail(no real desire to go for muley or elk) and that with 40-50 deer killed none have run more than 30 yards and half never at all. .243 is all i need and if thats all you hunt you can't go wrong with it.

Don't go and get some cannon of a gun for Texas whitetail, everyone will think you have a small pecker.

Have a model 788 REM in 243 that was given to me about 30 yrs ago...safety sucks but it still drives tacks at 300 yards despite the cost and sloppy fit.....just "one of those guns"....Have never lost a deer with it in Llano......my kids now shoot deer in the shoulder or neck and with a 100gr BTSP and have no issues with knockdown power. The 243 is a great deer rifle in TX and easy to shoot as well. Its a tool and is as effective as the craftsman who uses it....

First deer I ever shot was with a .243. Not to heavy, not to much kick. I liked it.

There is a hex barrel .240 Weatherby mag from John Bolliger of Mountain Riflery in the DFW Fine Gun Room of Bass Pro....Beautiful. Nice Christmas stocking present at a little under 14 grand. Great starter rifle.

At least get a .25WSSM. The extra 200-250 ft per sec make a huge differene behind another 20 grains of lead. This gun kicks no more than my regular .243. That said, I strongly urge you to consider the .270WSM as the step up in kick is minimal, but the overall advantages and versatility of the round are overwhelming when compared to .243.

A final not, no matte what you buy, don't skimp on the scope! Buy the very best scope you can afford. A good quality scope (w/o spending an arm and leg) would be: 1)Zeiss Conquest; 2) Nikon Monarch; 3) Bushnell Elite 4200; and Leupold VX1 - in that order. know other may disagree, but to each his own.

All good scopes 1989, except for the vxI. It's not in the same league as the others you mentioned. I would also throw Sightron SII or SII in the hat at a great buy for the $$. I agree on optics, don't skimp on them, especially if the gun you are mounting them on has any recoil at all. You may find an occasional one that will turn out to be a good one, but time usually tells the tale

I would stay away from the WSSM's at all costs if you are a beginner and don't reload. Why?

1.) Ammo availability; Mom & Pop's Beer and Chicken Stop in Ozona, TX isn't going to have a box of .25 WSSM on the shelf the night before your hunt when you discover that you have left your ammo at home. I can guarantee that they will have .243, .270, .30-30, and .30-06.

2.) The cartridge hasn't lived up to the factory quoted ballistics. You'll need to do some serious handloading to get the ballistics up to par. Otherwise you are better off with a .25-06 or .257 Roberts if you want a .25 caliber rifle.

3.) Feeding problems & magazine capacity. Due to the "fatness" and rim size of the cartridge, there have been problems with smooth feeding.

IMO, the WSSM's were an answer is search of a question, and they, along with the SAUM cartridges, are basically dead unless you are a handloader. You're better of sticking with the standard versions (.223/.220 Swift/.22-250 vs. .223 WSSM; .243 vs. .243 WSSM; .25-06/.257 Roberts vs. .25 WSSM).

[This message has been edited by Log (edited 12/3/2006 2:29p).]

You're right about the factory touted ballistics on the WSSMs. The 25 WSSM has no advantage over 25-06. I have run comparisons of the 2 myself. Feeding problems is the biggest knock I have heard about them. As for ammo, if you go on a hunt and forget to take any or enough....... that's just a lack of preparation. With some cartridges it is nearly necessary to handload, such as the 6.5 Grendel I recently purchased. I got 200 rounds of ammo along with it, but since, there has been no ammo or even brass available(about 3 or 4 months now). I now have a set of Forster dies and a brass catcher so the prob is solved(until Wolf and Black Hills start production). The 6.8 SPC is another example of factory hype to try and sell an new product. The initial #'s they presented turned out to be bloated on the high side to boost image and sales. Now people are catching on....

[This message has been edited by str8shot1000 (edited 12/3/2006 6:58p).]

Ballistically, the .243WSSM does measure up and you don't need handloads. The .25WSSM used to be like that, but now the new ammo available off the shelf (supposedly!) has adjusted so you get the extr FPS and at least a 1 inch flatter trajectory out to 300 yds. Plus, you do get some weight savings off of a std 25-06 (which I would take over a .243 for whitetails any day). That said, there is no denying that the .243WSSM is a superior round when compared to the standard loading. Moreover, the feeding problems ar grossly overstated as per Rifle Hunter mand Peteresen's. Also, I have mever had a feeding problem with mine.

Last, if you leave without sufficent ammo, that is a sign you probably aren't much of a hunter. Sight check at the range, then go directly to the store and stock of on a few boxes and stick them in your hunting bag or rifle case. Problem solved.

Again, if you are buying a first (and perhaps only) deer rifle, there is no good reason not to step up to a .270 or at least a 25-06 IMO.

A .243 is enough gun to take anything you'll shoot at in Texas.

Agreed about the WSM debate: on paper they seem ideal, but (with 270 for example), the extra velocity can be duplicated with handloads rather easily, without having to buy a new rifle?

From a few of the shops I frequent, the feedback I've gained is that the WMS's are the next progression is never-ending caliber upgrades. Weatherby, belted magnums, WSM's....all created because the basic rifle platform has remained relatively the same? And yet the classics are still thriving: .243, .270, 30-06, .30-30? These new rounds really are wonderful and perform beautifully, but for newer hunters they seem unnecessary?

*and when all else fails, Bob's Bait Shop usually doens't carry WSM rounds when you are off in the boonies and forgot your ammo bag?

I wouldn't call the .243 a classic when compared to the others:

30-30 Winchester........1895
30-06 Springfield.......1906
25-06 Remington.........1920
22-250..................1925
270 Winchester..........1925

243 Winchester..........1955
300 Winchester Magnum...1963
7mm Remington Mag.......1980

Think of it like one of those "Instant Classic" sports games that ESPN grabs and plays on ESPN Classic.

BTW, it beat out the .244 Remington (i.e 6 mm Remington) and took the market when they were introduced at approximately the same time. Mostly due to the poor choice of barrel twist in the .244. Ballistically, the 6 mm is superior (with a correct barrel twist), but it has always been a stepchild to the .243 due to initial barrel twist issue.

Unless you're shooting in brush the .243 is the best round you will find for whitetail, IMO.

It's high velocity, high shock, and shoots very flat.

I have hunted with .243 Win, .250 Savage, .270 Win, 7mm-08 Rem, .30-06, etc., and the .243 is my favorite.