if you're defending your home, do you really have time to put on armor?

option 1...shotgun....some say go with a pump gun b/c the sound of racking a round can be enough of a deterrent
option 2....pistol...use hollow points
option 3....mean, loud dog
option 4....rifle....smaller projectile designed to go longer distances not ideal for close quarter defense. yes, can be effective, but better options (see above).

German Shepherd, Remington 870 Pump, and a really really large wife to hide behind

Pistol with hollow points. I don't believe in the shotgun approach. Racking? No thanks, if it's for self defense, it shouldn't need racking.

My unpopular opinion is that for most all of these defense options are pipe dreams and false comforts when someone kicks in your door. I'd never attempt such an exercise but I feel pretty confident that myself and one other person could kick in a door at 3am and get to a room with people in it before the homeowner woke up, gained awareness, processed the situation and got done fumbling around for his pistol, shotgun, armor, mace, spear, or lance…or putting on his armor.

I genuinely feel that, barring weekly practice drills, the best option is dogs, plus pistol, plus escape plan. Dogs are the best option, they'll slow down progress and serve as an early warning system. Just my opinion.

But this discussion also must focus on personal comfort, so if you are of the opinion shotgun is best, then you'll be comfortable and confident with that and that's important.

I'm just here, waiting on Bender to find this thread and address the posts so far...

AgEng06 said:

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I'm just here, waiting on Bender to find this thread and address the posts so far...

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Quote:

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Shotgun is all you need, lots of great choices on them too. Don't shoot through walls and ruin your life and someone else's.

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I'm in for Bender as well. Can you spell AR-15?

When can we just pin a thread at the top about home defense weapons? I feel like this subject is discussed at least two times a week on here.

I put my 'Protected by the TexAgs Outdoors Board' sticker on my door, so I am good. Sleep like a baby every night.

Mr Gigem said:

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I'm interested in everyone's thoughts on what the best options are for home defense.

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not sure why you'd ask a bunch of aggies. we haven't defended Kyle field since the mid 90s.

AggieOO said:

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Mr Gigem said:

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I'm interested in everyone's thoughts on what the best options are for home defense.

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not sure why you'd ask a bunch of aggies. we haven't defended Kyle field since the mid 90s.

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OUCH

StockHorseAg said:

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When can we just pin a thread at the top about home defense weapons? I feel like this subject is discussed at least two times a week on here.

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If we pinned a thread for every subject talked about 2x per week on new threads, we woukd have at least the first 10 pages be nothing but pinned posts.

trip98 said:

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if you're defending your home, do you really have time to put on armor?

option 1...shotgun....some say go with a pump gun b/c the sound of racking a round can be enough of a deterrent
option 2....pistol...use hollow points
option 3....mean, loud dog
option 4....rifle....smaller projectile designed to go longer distances not ideal for close quarter defense. yes, can be effective, but better options (see above).

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Option 1 - no
Option 2 - no
Option 3 - no
Option 4 - yes. AR with the correct projectiles (Hornady TAP, frangibles, etc.). Easier to operate, more accurate, 30 rounds, add a bright AF weapons light, etc.

I keep a pistol with multiple mags available. Also, a solid bedroom door with a reinforced deadbolt will buy you a little time as well to gather your thoughts. Get rid of the little screws that go into the frame and replace them with long screws that go into the stud. Door jams on the perimeter doors also slow them down. Nice to have the wife trained to bolt the bedroom door while you get to your gun. If you have kids in other rooms around the house this obviously wouldn't be an option. Not an issue for me yet.

My biggest issue is being roused from sleep and having a clear head. Most times I'm fine. But my alarm once went off at 3am due to a faulty sensor and I was disgusted/sick to my stomach how long it took for me to gain a clear head.

SharkinAg said:

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I keep a pistol with multiple mags available. Also, a solid bedroom door with a reinforced deadbolt will buy you a little time as well to gather your thoughts. Get rid of the little screws that go into the frame and replace them with long screws that go into the stud. Door jams on the perimeter doors also slow them down. Nice to have the wife trained to bolt the bedroom door while you get to your gun. If you have kids in other rooms around the house this obviously wouldn't be an option. Not an issue for me yet.

My biggest issue is being roused from sleep and having a clear head. Most times I'm fine. But my alarm once went off at 3am due to a faulty sensor and I was disgusted/sick to my stomach how long it took for me to gain a clear head.

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Glad to see someone thinking defense in-depth. Seriously, if they can't get in easily or quietly, you go a long way to preventing the issue. Also gives you time to get your head clear.

If you want to further strengthen your doors, get top and bottom locks.

In waiting for Bender as well.

I would also say there are some other things to do to manage risk.
1) Don't deal or store illegal drugs on your property.
2) Don't run an illegal cash business from home.
3) Don't live in a mobile home (they are victims of home an invasions 11 per 1000 vs 9 per 1000. Likely related to 1 and 2)

Yall.

My first day since May when both kids are in school and I finally have a day to myself. I got to go to the range, knock out some projects….then I pulled up Texags. And yall do this thread. Today of all days.

OP, you ask good questions. I'll be back tonight with some links and info for you.

big ben said:

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German Shepherd, Remington 870 Pump, and a really really large wife to hide behind

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If you have a German wife then you don't need the German Shepard.

SharkinAg said:

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I keep a pistol with multiple mags available. Also, a solid bedroom door with a reinforced deadbolt will buy you a little time as well to gather your thoughts. Get rid of the little screws that go into the frame and replace them with long screws that go into the stud. Door jams on the perimeter doors also slow them down. Nice to have the wife trained to bolt the bedroom door while you get to your gun. If you have kids in other rooms around the house this obviously wouldn't be an option. Not an issue for me yet.

My biggest issue is being roused from sleep and having a clear head. Most times I'm fine. But my alarm once went off at 3am due to a faulty sensor and I was disgusted/sick to my stomach how long it took for me to gain a clear head.

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Doors are your first line of defense, and buy you time to do all the other things. I have something like this reinforcing my door jam and hinges: https://asafehome.net/

Dogs-yes, shotguns-yes, pistols-yes!
Do you only have 1 tool in your toolbox???
Give yourself options
pistol in a drawer in living room watching tv- sure thing
shotgun in bedroom closet heck ya.
If you are preparing for a home invasion style issue, you never know where you will be in the house when it happens.
If you are making dinner in kitchen when front door gets kicked in and gun is in the bedroom…. you are probably SOL

Mr Gigem said:

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I'm interested in everyone's thoughts on what the best options are for home defense. I would be looking at a handgun and/or rifle, and possibly lightweight armor.

TIA

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OP, I'm going to make some assumptions based on this post. If they don't apply to you, cool. Maybe they will help someone else if it doesn't help you. It sounds like you currently don't own a rifle or a handgun. Proceeding on that assumption...

I grew up around guns, bought my first rifle at 18, first handgun at 21, got my CHL at 22. All the ammo and shooting I did before the age of about 28 was pretty much a waste, because it wasn't until I was almost 30 that I started taking the shooting thing seriously. Went to my first handgun class, tried out my first competition, and had my eyes completely opened to worlds I had no idea existed back when I was a kid shooting basketball sized groups at a B-27 sized target at Champions at 12-15 yards and feeling really good about "my skill".

If I was in your (assumed) position and could start all over and not waste years of my gun owning life, this is what I would do.

1) Buy a handgun first, and find a good beginner class to take with it.
2) Before the class figure out how to field strip and clean it (youtube can always come to the rescue here),
3) work on getting comfortable with the gun (WITH NO AMMO IN THE ROOM WITH YOU). What I mean by getting comfortable with it is learning how the safeties work if it has any, how to drop and insert the magazine, how to rack the slide, etc. Don't worry about looking cool, doing things fast, or whether your grip is right or not. It isn't, but that's what you're paying an instructor to fix for you.
4) Take your first class. You won't be the most ignorant gun owner there, believe me. Be a sponge, ask every stupid question you can think of, write everything down
5) start learning about dry fire, apply the things you learned at class, go to the range with specific goals and drills in mind to shoot other than "make noise and holes", sign up for another class, look into competition, repeat ad nauseum.

Potential questions you may have: "what handgun?"....pick a compact (not a subcompact) from a major manufacturer like a Glock 19, Smith and Wesson M&P, CZ P-10C, whatever. Yes, spending an extra $100 on a Glock instead of a Taurus is worth it (my first handgun was a Taurus because no one told me this).

"What class?". If you're in Texas, I recommend KR Training. They specifically offer classes for new shooters that are going to really jumpstart your learning curve. If not in Texas, check out the KR website and see the description of their beginner courses. If the classes you're seeing offered in your local area are stuff like "Tactical Response to Active Threat training, 2 day, 800 round minimum" instead of a similar description to the KR beginner classes.....that's not what you're looking for. Run, don't walk.

Don't get sucked into the same hole most of us fell into of wanting to buy and try all the things. Get a solid compact option that can be used for concealed carry, home defense, competition, everything. Get good with it. Spend the money you save not buying new pistols every month on ammo and classes.

Anyway, that's what I would do if I could start over. I wasted lots of years just making noise. I have tried to take at least one firearms class a year for almost a decade now and still feel like I have tons to learn. Just wish I had started the process a few years earlier.

If you have any questions or want any advice, happy to help if I can. Feel free to shoot me an IM.

AgEng06 said:

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I'm just here, waiting on Bender to find this thread and address the posts so far...

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I really need to copy this to a file so it doesn't need to get retyped every time.

Despite what others may assume, I do not hate shotguns or think they're necessarily a bad choice, if you have any clue what you're doing. A strong hint that you have no clue would be repeating things like "rack it to scare them away", "you dont even have to aim", "shotgun is best because it doesn't penetrate walls", etc.

It's funny that the early internet gun myths like "If you have to shoot an intruder in your yard, drag him onto your porch so its justified" have rightfully died because everyone realizes how idiotic that advice is, but the shotgun myths persist despite mountains of experience and evidence against....well, all of it.

I'm going to defer to an expert in the field on this one and quote Dr Gary Roberts (eta: this quote was likely written at least a decade ago so we're going on at least two decades of this information being widely available).

Quote:

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Given the widespread availability of this information for over a decade, I am shockingly surprised to read about the "overpenetration" with "high powered assault rifles". In this day and age anyone who is spouting this BS needs to be horsewhipped… Several respected organizations have done structural wall testing, including the FBI, CHP, and IWBA. In our IWBA and CHP testing, replicas of standard construction interior walls were fabricated using two pieces of 1/2 thick dry wall cut in 12 x 24 segments and mounted four inches apart using 2 x 4 fir studs and 1.5 dry wall screws. Five rounds of each load were first fired into bare gelatin to serve as controls. Then 5 shots of each load were shot through interior wall segments into gelatin blocks placed a set distance behind the intermediate barriersvarious distances have been tested, typically ranging from 1 to 10 feet.

Generally, common service caliber JHP bullets failed to expand and had very deep, excessive penetration after passing through the interior wall, due to plugging of the hollow point. With the hollow point plugged, the bullets performed nearly identically to FMJ pistol bullets. The terminal performance of the 12 ga. 00 buckshot and slugs was not altered by passing through interior wall replicas, with penetration and deformation nearly identical with their performance in bare gelatin. Likewise, .308 rounds were not usually effected by the presence of an interior wall intermediate barrier.

With one exception, the majority of the 5.56 mm/.223 loads, including M855 62 gr "green-tip" FMJ, which were fired through interior walls demonstrated either minimal changes in terminal performance compared with bare gelatin or reduced penetration. The major exception were 55 gr M193 style FMJ projectiles which exhibited minimal fragmentation and deformation after first passing through interior wall replicas and hence penetrated deeper than in bare gel.

Since all of the 5.56 mm/.223 bullets fired through the interior wall had significantly less penetration than 9 mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and 12 ga. shotgun projectiles which were fired through an interior wall, stray 5.56 mm/.223 bullets seem to offer a reduced risk of injuring innocent bystanders and an inherent reduced risk of civil litigation in situations where bullets miss their intended target and enter or exit structures. As such, 5.56mm/.223 caliber weapons may be safer to use in CQB situations and crowded urban environments than service caliber handguns or 12 ga. weapons.

Obviously, it is important to keep in mind that purpose built barrier blind 5.56 mm/.223 projectiles, such as the 55 & 62 gr Federal Tactical JSP's and the Nosler 60 gr Partition, will offer deeper penetration than fragmenting designs and may exit.

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Important note for the bolded section: Reduced risk. Not no risk.

Anything worth using to stop a human being is going to penetrate interior house construction. If only some sort of common sense rule about knowing your target and knowing what is beyond your target existed to teach people to not depend on drywall of all things to keep other people safe and you could choose a tool that sent one projectile potentially through said wall instead of a spreading pattern of projectiles....

Here's an outstanding series of blog posts on choosing a home defense weapon with lots of additional good links and things worth considering.

https://blog.hsoi.com/2009/02/06/on-a-home-defense-tool/

Its worth the read and consideration, regardless of what tool you use to do the job...and the tool matters far, far less than your willingness to be violent if needed to protect your family, and to seek out training to be good at said violence. Pick a tool, train with it, rock on. Just don't repeat falsehoods and myths to justify your personal choices......

AR15 is way easier to shoot and aim rapidly than a shotgun.

I have a pistol in my night stand to allow me to get to my AR.

Get one of these guys. I have never seen a more lovable oaf. At night though, he is constantly on guard. He walks periodically into each bedroom just to "check" on us. His bark is deafening when he means business. I have no doubt I would be able to get my wits about me in the middle of the night and defend with a firearm if needed with him on alert.

This is him about a month ago at 6 mos and 70+ lbs. he is bigger now. Great dogs.

Adorable pup. I have two Great Pyrs.

My alarm system is entirely redundant.