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TPWD / Deer Breeders / CWD

14,964 Views | 136 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by Jtd08
96ags
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harge57 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.
Irony at its finest.
98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.
.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.
Funky Winkerbean
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Given all the genetic manipulation that takes place, is it possible that resistance has been diminished?
txags92
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Funky Winkerbean said:

Given all the genetic manipulation that takes place, is it possible that resistance has been diminished?
Nobody knows and anybody who says they do is drawing a conclusion that is not supported by the available data. There is some indication that a relatively rare genetic variation may take longer to show up as CWD positive than other genotypes, but they still catch the disease and there is no indication that they are "resistant" to the disease as Dr. Deer has claimed. They just take longer to develop enough disease to show up positive, which is not the same as not having any or not shedding the disease prion to infect others. Dr. Deer would have you believe that the deer breeders are going to use this variation to breed us out of CWD (something of his that Montanagriz has posted about recently), but the reality is that doing so would not do anything to protect the wild herd, and in fact having deer that show up positive slower and live longer with the disease is more likely to create a line of "carrier" deer that can live and spread the disease longer than deer that succumb to it more quickly. And because they take longer to show positive, the breeders would be able to easily move them around and infect new areas with them before they test positive.
txags92
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96ags said:

harge57 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.
Irony at its finest.
98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.
.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.
I would be in favor of funding TPWD to allow them to test every single deer brought to a deer processing facility for several seasons to rectify that imbalance. How about you?

One thing that the numbers stated previous show is that if you count all of tests performed by TPWD on free-range whitetails as of 2024, the percent positive is much lower than if you count the testing of all whitetails as of Jan 2023, implying that the percent positive in the captive population testing is much higher.
96ags
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txags92 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.
Irony at its finest.
98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.
.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.
I would be in favor of funding TPWD to allow them to test every single deer brought to a deer processing facility for several seasons to rectify that imbalance. How about you?

One thing that the numbers stated previous show is that if you count all of tests performed by TPWD on free-range whitetails as of 2024, the percent positive is much lower than if you count the testing of all whitetails as of Jan 2023, implying that the percent positive in the captive population testing is much higher.
Not if TPWD is doing the testing. If it is 1. voluntary, and 2. done by an independent 3rd party, sure I would support that. I would wager that TPWD would not support my suggestion though.

I have not seen any per capita numbers that state what you have said. Where are you finding the percentages that show a "much lower" infection rate?

Everything I have seen has shown a roughly .2% positive or a 99.8% negative rate.
schmellba99
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txags92 said:




The accuracy of the live tests they mentioned are in use by TPWD to let breeders keep moving deer and are not accurate enough. The number of animals subsequently testing positive after being cleared for movement based on those tests makes that clear. The tests he mentioned are the ones TPWD relied on when depopulating Kerr over what turned out to be a false positive. They were roundly criticized for that decision by plenty of folks here. So which is it? Are the tests reliable? Or are TPWD rubes for believing they were reliable? You can't have it both ways.

The supplemental feeding claim is just BS unless it is backed up by science, which I have seen no evidence of. And he complains that TPWD is not participating in funding research, but you guys are claiming that they are money grubbing to want more research money. Which is it? They are spending about $2 million a year, mostly on more testing. Do you want them to do more research or not? If so, you can't turn around and call them money grubbers for trying to get more money for research.

Look, I get that being rabidly antigovernment about everything is part of Ted's schtick. I share his opinion about a lot of what goes on in government. But to me, the tale of how TPWD was forced to abandon a management plan that was developed in cooperation with breeders and included Dr. Deer is a tale of government corruption. The breeders got their guys in the legislature to let TPWD know what the consequences would be for trying to follow the plan as it was developed. Most of that spread of CWD exposed deer on that map I posted previously would not have happened if they had followed the plan. It would have also saved them from having to kill a lot of those deer in herds they eventually depopulated.
IIRC, the live test has about a 50% failure rate, so it's a coin flip at best
96ags
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schmellba99 said:

txags92 said:




The accuracy of the live tests they mentioned are in use by TPWD to let breeders keep moving deer and are not accurate enough. The number of animals subsequently testing positive after being cleared for movement based on those tests makes that clear. The tests he mentioned are the ones TPWD relied on when depopulating Kerr over what turned out to be a false positive. They were roundly criticized for that decision by plenty of folks here. So which is it? Are the tests reliable? Or are TPWD rubes for believing they were reliable? You can't have it both ways.

The supplemental feeding claim is just BS unless it is backed up by science, which I have seen no evidence of. And he complains that TPWD is not participating in funding research, but you guys are claiming that they are money grubbing to want more research money. Which is it? They are spending about $2 million a year, mostly on more testing. Do you want them to do more research or not? If so, you can't turn around and call them money grubbers for trying to get more money for research.

Look, I get that being rabidly antigovernment about everything is part of Ted's schtick. I share his opinion about a lot of what goes on in government. But to me, the tale of how TPWD was forced to abandon a management plan that was developed in cooperation with breeders and included Dr. Deer is a tale of government corruption. The breeders got their guys in the legislature to let TPWD know what the consequences would be for trying to follow the plan as it was developed. Most of that spread of CWD exposed deer on that map I posted previously would not have happened if they had followed the plan. It would have also saved them from having to kill a lot of those deer in herds they eventually depopulated.
IIRC, the live test has about a 50% failure rate, so it's a coin flip at best
Priogen advertises a 75-80% accuracy rate, but I have no 1st hand knowledge of that being the case. I believe they cut their teeth in the scrapies testing world.
txags92
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96ags said:

txags92 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.
Irony at its finest.
98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.
.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.
I would be in favor of funding TPWD to allow them to test every single deer brought to a deer processing facility for several seasons to rectify that imbalance. How about you?

One thing that the numbers stated previous show is that if you count all of tests performed by TPWD on free-range whitetails as of 2024, the percent positive is much lower than if you count the testing of all whitetails as of Jan 2023, implying that the percent positive in the captive population testing is much higher.
Not if TPWD is doing the testing. If it is 1. voluntary, and 2. done by an independent 3rd party, sure I would support that. I would wager that TPWD would not support my suggestion though.

I have not seen any per capita numbers that state what you have said. Where are you finding the percentages that show a "much lower" infection rate?

Everything I have seen has shown a roughly .2% positive or a 99.8% negative rate.


The numbers montanagriz posted showed ~110k tests of free range white tails as of 2024 with a 0.08% positive rate and ~289k total tests of all types (free range, breeder, and breeder release) as of 2023 with 0.185% positive. That implies that the 180k or so breeder deer or breeder release deer were probably around .25-.3% positve or 3x the free range rate. When you consider only 4 of the free range positives came from areas not adjacent to infected new mexico areas or near infected breeders, the true rate of positives in free range deer is MUCH lower than the captive population.
96ags
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txags92 said:

96ags said:

txags92 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.
Irony at its finest.
98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.
.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.
I would be in favor of funding TPWD to allow them to test every single deer brought to a deer processing facility for several seasons to rectify that imbalance. How about you?

One thing that the numbers stated previous show is that if you count all of tests performed by TPWD on free-range whitetails as of 2024, the percent positive is much lower than if you count the testing of all whitetails as of Jan 2023, implying that the percent positive in the captive population testing is much higher.
Not if TPWD is doing the testing. If it is 1. voluntary, and 2. done by an independent 3rd party, sure I would support that. I would wager that TPWD would not support my suggestion though.

I have not seen any per capita numbers that state what you have said. Where are you finding the percentages that show a "much lower" infection rate?

Everything I have seen has shown a roughly .2% positive or a 99.8% negative rate.


The numbers montanagriz posted showed ~110k tests of free range white tails as of 2024 with a 0.08% positive rate and ~289k total tests of all types (free range, breeder, and breeder release) as of 2023 with 0.185% positive. That implies that the 180k or so breeder deer or breeder release deer were probably around .25-.3% positve or 3x the free range rate. When you consider only 4 of the free range positives came from areas not adjacent to infected new mexico areas or near infected breeders, the true rate of positives in free range deer is MUCH lower than the captive population.
No, that does not imply what you are saying. I know you want it to say that, but it simply does not. As I said, it does not appear to me that TPWD provides the apples to apples data.

txags92
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I think that is about the best rate for a live test out there, but I have my concerns about the durability of their results long term. Ie they may detect 75-80% of deer that would test positive with a post mortem test, but not as accurate for deer that will eventually test positive months or years later.

And my own opinion is that 75-80% is nowhere near accurate enough to base a decision about whether a deer is safe to transport. TPWD I believe requires two live tests, relying on statistics to assume the false negative rate for two separate tests will be lower. But if there are reasons we don't understand that cause the test failures in those cases, it may mean the statistical assumption is wrong.
harge57
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96ags said:

harge57 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.
Irony at its finest.
98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.
.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.


Ummm no.

From 2015-2022, more than 127,000 samples were collected from hunter-harvested and roadkill deer.

If that was 2% of all tests and mirrored the positive rates that would mean 6.5 million breeder tests since 2015.

Deer breeders must:

Test 100% of the deer that die in their pens (59,523 tests performed since 2006),
txags92
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96ags said:

txags92 said:

96ags said:

txags92 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.
Irony at its finest.
98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.
.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.
I would be in favor of funding TPWD to allow them to test every single deer brought to a deer processing facility for several seasons to rectify that imbalance. How about you?

One thing that the numbers stated previous show is that if you count all of tests performed by TPWD on free-range whitetails as of 2024, the percent positive is much lower than if you count the testing of all whitetails as of Jan 2023, implying that the percent positive in the captive population testing is much higher.
Not if TPWD is doing the testing. If it is 1. voluntary, and 2. done by an independent 3rd party, sure I would support that. I would wager that TPWD would not support my suggestion though.

I have not seen any per capita numbers that state what you have said. Where are you finding the percentages that show a "much lower" infection rate?

Everything I have seen has shown a roughly .2% positive or a 99.8% negative rate.


The numbers montanagriz posted showed ~110k tests of free range white tails as of 2024 with a 0.08% positive rate and ~289k total tests of all types (free range, breeder, and breeder release) as of 2023 with 0.185% positive. That implies that the 180k or so breeder deer or breeder release deer were probably around .25-.3% positve or 3x the free range rate. When you consider only 4 of the free range positives came from areas not adjacent to infected new mexico areas or near infected breeders, the true rate of positives in free range deer is MUCH lower than the captive population.
No, that does not imply what you are saying. I know you want it to say that, but it simply does not. As I said, it does not appear to me that TPWD provides the apples to apples data.




Why not? If source one is a subset of a population, and has a positive percent lower than the average for the full population, then it implies the rest of the population has a positive percent higher than the population average.

And don't blame me for the two different dates on the datasets. TPWD didnt post them anywhere I was able to find because I looked to try to get two sets from the same timeframe to do the exact math. I was using values posted by Montanagriz who I assume got them from his buddy Dr Deer, since that is the source for most of what he posts.
96ags
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harge57 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.
Irony at its finest.
98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.
.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.


Ummm no.

From 2015-2022, more than 127,000 samples were collected from hunter-harvested and roadkill deer.

Deer breeders must:

Test 100% of the deer that die in their pens (59,523 tests performed since 2006),
There have been over 300,000 deer tested in the state of Texas. Your numbers are bit off.

I'd love to have the raw data to compare but it just isn't made readily available by TPWD.
txags92
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96ags said:

harge57 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.
Irony at its finest.
98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.
.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.


Ummm no.

From 2015-2022, more than 127,000 samples were collected from hunter-harvested and roadkill deer.

Deer breeders must:

Test 100% of the deer that die in their pens (59,523 tests performed since 2006),
There have been over 300,000 deer tested in the state of Texas. Your numbers are bit off.

I'd love to have the raw data to compare but it just isn't made readily available by TPWD.


That is correct. There have been many more breeder tests than just those that died on their properties.
96ags
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txags92 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

96ags said:

harge57 said:

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.
Irony at its finest.
98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.
.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.


Ummm no.

From 2015-2022, more than 127,000 samples were collected from hunter-harvested and roadkill deer.

Deer breeders must:

Test 100% of the deer that die in their pens (59,523 tests performed since 2006),
There have been over 300,000 deer tested in the state of Texas. Your numbers are bit off.

I'd love to have the raw data to compare but it just isn't made readily available by TPWD.


That is correct. There have been many more breeder tests than just those that died on their properties.
Agreed
country
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I don't wade into the weeds of this argument often. All I know is there was a facility that was shut down in our area and because of that all deer harvested within a defined zone have had to be tested ever since. I believe we just finished the 4th year. There have been zero positive tests from the wild animals harvested within the zone. I still have no idea how much longer mandatory testing is required but at some point it becomes an overreach of government authority in my opinion. Not sure when that point is, and I understand testing to ensure containment, but it can't just be until the government calls it quits.
montanagriz
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schmellba99 said:

I see you follow Kroll. He has significant stakes in breeding operations and is highly biased. He also picks the numbers and words he uses very carefully.

CWD has been known since the 60's, and it was almost exclusively limited to western states and in mule deer and elk. In Texas, there was a couple of cases of it being detected - all in mule deer IIRC - in the panhandle and maybe way out in El Paso area.

Then deer breeding became a thing and all of a sudden multiple cases pop up along the 35 corridor - where, coincdentally, most deer breeding operations are located. Deer breeding is the single biggest - not the only cause, but the single biggest by far - contributing factor to the spread of the disease and the numbers show it in spades.

https://instagr.am/p/Cs9JxLiupez


Im not here saying they didnt spread it. Hell, it could just be scrapies and around forever in the ground. Some think it mutated from sheep scrapies and is prevalent in ground where sheep were prevalent as a livestock. Discussion isnt who spreads it but is it really that dangerous. What makes it so dangerous compared to ehd? Have the deer herds not grown? Isnt the % low of deer that tested positive? Like less thsn 1%, just seems like covid scare when you look at numbers and see deer numbers increasing. Killing healthy deer isnt the answer, why would anyone think that is a great answer is beyond me
txags92
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country said:

I don't wade into the weeds of this argument often. All I know is there was a facility that was shut down in our area and because of that all deer harvested within a defined zone have had to be tested ever since. I believe we just finished the 4th year. There have been zero positive tests from the wild animals harvested within the zone. I still have no idea how much longer mandatory testing is required but at some point it becomes an overreach of government authority in my opinion. Not sure when that point is, and I understand testing to ensure containment, but it can't just be until the government calls it quits.


The problem is that the prions can live and be viable in the environment for years and the disease may take 3-5 years to manifest in an infected animal after exposure. So I don't know what criteria TPWD will settle on for shutting down surveillance testing, but it will likely be at least a few more years before we find out.

I really do wish TPWD would just start testing all animals turned in at processors in the state (I think the numbers would require it to be done by a third party lab FWIW). Just to try to get a real dataset that can be used for baseline comparison in the future.
country
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TPWD needs a clear policy. If it's 7 years then so be it. If it's 10 years so be it. But simply saying we are from the government and are here to help until we get tired isn't right. There is always a "problem" that allows the government to enter the picture. There is rarely a solution that gets them out. And recognize that I don't have a problem with the testing in response to an outbreak. Just the vagueness it entails.
montanagriz
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Maybe if tpwd incentivized people that voluntarily tested that could work getting data vs just govt over reach.

Like normal 75 dollar deer processing fee or skinning fee waved if you agree to test. Tpwd just pays the processor those fees. If not money, maybe tpwd rewards those that volunteer with an extra buck tag.
txags92
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country said:

TPWD needs a clear policy. If it's 7 years then so be it. If it's 10 years so be it. But simply saying we are from the government and are here to help until we get tired isn't right. There is always a "problem" that allows the government to enter the picture. There is rarely a solution that gets them out. And recognize that I don't have a problem with the testing in response to an outbreak. Just the vagueness it entails.
They may have a number in mind. If so, I have not seen them publicize it. This surveillance testing costs them money they would rather spend elsewhere if it is unnecessary. So I doubt they will continue it longer than they believe is necessary just because.
txags92
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montanagriz said:

Maybe if tpwd incentivized people that voluntarily tested that could work getting data vs just govt over reach.

Like normal 75 dollar deer processing fee or skinning fee waved if you agree to test. Tpwd just pays the processor those fees. If not money, maybe tpwd rewards those that volunteer with an extra buck tag.
They are already doing the testing for free and giving you the ability to make an informed risk decision about whether you want to eat the meat. Right now they are just collecting at specific stations in potentially affected areas and paying seasonal employees to collect the samples. Right now it is not a convenient process and in many cases, the stations are only staffed sporadically. I think they would get more samples for less money if they just asked the processors to give them tissue samples as they are processing each deer or even paid the processors for samples.
country
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Perhaps. But they should be criticized for not publicizing it. I'm just providing an example of why the public (non-breeders) don't simply bend over backwards to help TPWD. They are unfairly demonized as the anti-Christ by one side of this argument and propped up as the savior by the other. The reality is they have a lot of crap they need to get ironed out to gain favor with a lot of folks. Many of which are on their side of the debate.
txags92
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country said:

Perhaps. But they should be criticized for not publicizing it. I'm just providing an example of why the public (non-breeders) don't simply bend over backwards to help TPWD. They are unfairly demonized as the anti-Christ by one side of this argument and propped up as the savior by the other. The reality is they have a lot of crap they need to get ironed out to gain favor with a lot of folks. Many of which are on their side of the debate.
I agree that visibility with their data is a big blind spot for TPWD in terms of public perception. I can see them not setting a specific X year limit for how long surveillance areas will last, but I think right now their criteria is probably still evolving along with the science around persistence of prions in the environment, time to manifest after exposure, and accuracy of testing. I know that they were having discussions last year about how to make that decision, but I don't know specifically which zones they had in mind if any, and I don't know what the eventual outcome was or if they have settled on anything.

One of my beefs is not giving specific info below the county level on where they are detecting positives, particularly in free range deer. I assume there is some level of privacy required for their breeder sample programs, and I am sure they are worried about informal blacklisting of properties or facilities by the public based on what may be incomplete info. But in the end it is public info that is presumably acquirable under open records, so they should get in front of it and be much more open with what testing data they have. I think that is a fair criticism of them, but not one that has seemed to resonate with management when it has been brought up from outside the agency.
Doctor51
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I absolutely didn't read any of this but if you had a deer test positive are you feeding it to your kids? I had low fence harvested one in mandatory testing come back inconclusive two years ago.

Just curious if positive test would you feed it to your kids
Aggie1205
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Doctor51 said:

I absolutely didn't read any of this but if you had a deer test positive are you feeding it to your kids? I had low fence harvested one in mandatory testing come back inconclusive two years ago.



Just curious if positive test would you feed it to your kids

No way.
country
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Doctor51 said:

I absolutely didn't read any of this but if you had a deer test positive are you feeding it to your kids? I had low fence harvested one in mandatory testing come back inconclusive two years ago.

Just curious if positive test would you feed it to your kids

I'm not sure what the point of this type of post is. But no I wouldn't feed meat from a known sick animal to my kids. I also wouldn't let my kids run outside in the rain if I had a known that lightening would strike them that particular day. Roughly the same odds consuming deer harvested from the wild heard.
harge57
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country said:

Doctor51 said:

I absolutely didn't read any of this but if you had a deer test positive are you feeding it to your kids? I had low fence harvested one in mandatory testing come back inconclusive two years ago.

Just curious if positive test would you feed it to your kids

I'm not sure what the point of this type of post is. But no I wouldn't feed meat from a known sick animal to my kids. I also wouldn't let my kids run outside in the rain if I had a known that lightening would strike them that particular day. Roughly the same odds consuming deer harvested from the wild heard.


Not in Wisconsin. Which may be where we are headed.

P.S. I'd eat it and feed to my kids, but know that most people would not which pretty much ruins hunting for many and one of the main reasons the public supports hunting in general.
montanagriz
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I was looking for solutions to get hunter participation up in willingly donating to test. Most people dont want to test due to fear of a positive and then tpwd coming to their property and killing all deer and no more hunting.

If you gave reasons like either money by paying processing fees or skinning fees or an extra deer tag for those hunters that process their own deer but drop off the head to tpwd.

I dont care about greasing the processors palms which already make money on deer from hunters but the deer is still the "hunters" deer, not the processors.

I guess tpwd plan is to just take deer from processors or get hunters so scared they willing turn deer in to test for fear of eating a cwd postive deer.

txags92
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montanagriz said:

I was looking for solutions to get hunter participation up in willingly donating to test. Most people dont want to test due to fear of a positive and then tpwd coming to their property and killing all deer and no more hunting.

If you gave reasons like either money by paying processing fees or skinning fees or an extra deer tag for those hunters that process their own deer but drop off the head to tpwd.

I dont care about greasing the processors palms which already make money on deer from hunters but the deer is still the "hunters" deer, not the processors.

I guess tpwd plan is to just take deer from processors or get hunters so scared they willing turn deer in to test for fear of eating a cwd postive deer.


That is a completely unrealistic fear and one of the reasons I hate people like Macy Ledbetter and Ted Nugent for doing podcasts like that. TPWD isn't coming onto any private citizens land and wanting to kill a bunch of deer on the basis of a voluntary test in a free ranging deer. It has never and will never happen. That is not how TPWD works and not what they have the power or regulatory mandate to do. People like Nugent and Ledbetter are lying about it to make what happened to their breeder buddies seem like it can happen to anybody. It can't and it won't. The breeders whose herds were depopulated refused every option given to them by TPWD in accordance with their permits that they willingly applied for knowing that they were inviting TPWD oversight of their herd.

That is the one topic in this that absolutely infuriates me. Those breeders signed deals with TPWD to allow them to breed game animals and treat them as livestock for profit in return for strict oversight of the operations by TPWD, including testing and quarantine requirements. In response to positive tests, they were asked to do more intensive testing and quarantine when necessary before being allowed to return to transporting deer There were numerous levels of testing and or quarantine depending on the number of positives and so forth, and the guys who refused every option for additional oversight after multiple positive tests on deer from their operations left TPWD no choice but to come in and eliminate their herd to keep it from spreading outside of the facility as it has in Medina county and where it is suspected to have spread in Hunt county as well.

This myth that TPWD is just itching to get on the property of random landowners to start killing deer is the creation of the breeders and they are doing it to undermine trust in TPWD for their own financial benefit. It is a lie and anybody who spreads it is a liar and deserves to be treated as a dishonest and untrustworthy person.
schmellba99
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montanagriz said:

I was looking for solutions to get hunter participation up in willingly donating to test. Most people dont want to test due to fear of a positive and then tpwd coming to their property and killing all deer and no more hunting.

If you gave reasons like either money by paying processing fees or skinning fees or an extra deer tag for those hunters that process their own deer but drop off the head to tpwd.

I dont care about greasing the processors palms which already make money on deer from hunters but the deer is still the "hunters" deer, not the processors.

I guess tpwd plan is to just take deer from processors or get hunters so scared they willing turn deer in to test for fear of eating a cwd postive deer.


Where has this occurred?

I'll readily admit that I'm not up to the second on the ins and outs of all things CWD, but my understandng is that the only time herds have been eradicated is when CWD was discovered in captive (I.E. - breeder operations) herds.

CWD is known to exist in the wild, there is no way that TPWD could come in and eradicate an entire wild population in an area, there would be logistical impossibilities and legal issues associated with that for sure.
fullback44
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How about just shut all deer hunting down for 3-4 years… kind of like when they take our fishing limits away, just shut it down and let everyone cool off a bit

Everyone go talk to a beef breeder and get him to set you up a blind in the field and let you shoot a good eating steer… the meat is better then deer meat anyway
txags92
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fullback44 said:

How about just shut all deer hunting down for 3-4 years… kind of like when they take our fishing limits away, just shut it down and let everyone cool off a bit


What purpose would shutting down hunting achieve? No evidence or science to support that. If you are wanting to make a point about commercial fishing interests or covid regulation, perhaps start another thread?

fullback44 said:

Everyone go talk to a beef breeder and get him to set you up a blind in the field and let you shoot a good eating steer… the meat is better then deer meat anyway


Tell me you don't know how to cook venison without telling me…
txags92
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schmellba99 said:

montanagriz said:

I was looking for solutions to get hunter participation up in willingly donating to test. Most people dont want to test due to fear of a positive and then tpwd coming to their property and killing all deer and no more hunting.

If you gave reasons like either money by paying processing fees or skinning fees or an extra deer tag for those hunters that process their own deer but drop off the head to tpwd.

I dont care about greasing the processors palms which already make money on deer from hunters but the deer is still the "hunters" deer, not the processors.

I guess tpwd plan is to just take deer from processors or get hunters so scared they willing turn deer in to test for fear of eating a cwd postive deer.


Where has this occurred?

I'll readily admit that I'm not up to the second on the ins and outs of all things CWD, but my understandng is that the only time herds have been eradicated is when CWD was discovered in captive (I.E. - breeder operations) herds.

CWD is known to exist in the wild, there is no way that TPWD could come in and eradicate an entire wild population in an area, there would be logistical impossibilities and legal issues associated with that for sure.


It hasn't happened and it won't happen. It is just a lie Ted Nugent, Macy Ledbetter, and all the other deer breeder mouthpieces are spreading to scare people and make the deer breeders out to be the victim of an out of control government agency. It plays well with the uninformed and those who believe anything that is said by people with a huge financial stake in maintaining the status quo. Many of them are Aggies and should know better than to lie, but I guess money is money and it pays better to lie than tell the truth.
fullback44
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txags92 said:

fullback44 said:

How about just shut all deer hunting down for 3-4 years… kind of like when they take our fishing limits away, just shut it down and let everyone cool off a bit


What purpose would shutting down hunting achieve? No evidence or science to support that. If you are wanting to make a point about commercial fishing interests or covid regulation, perhaps start another thread?

fullback44 said:

Everyone go talk to a beef breeder and get him to set you up a blind in the field and let you shoot a good eating steer… the meat is better then deer meat anyway


Tell me you don't know how to cook venison without telling me…



I grew up on a ranch, shot and ate all kinds of deer there big guy…. I'm on the ranchers side of this all, quit moving deer around and this problem will go away .. I prefer our own raised beef these days .. not taking a chance on eating a CWD deer .. anyway that's my 2 cents and it's just one of many opinions on this subject

Now tell me YOU don't know a lick about this
 
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