txags92 said:

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.

---

Irony at its finest.

---

98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.

---

.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.

---

I would be in favor of funding TPWD to allow them to test every single deer brought to a deer processing facility for several seasons to rectify that imbalance. How about you?

One thing that the numbers stated previous show is that if you count all of tests performed by TPWD on free-range whitetails as of 2024, the percent positive is much lower than if you count the testing of all whitetails as of Jan 2023, implying that the percent positive in the captive population testing is much higher.

---

txags92 said:

---

The accuracy of the live tests they mentioned are in use by TPWD to let breeders keep moving deer and are not accurate enough. The number of animals subsequently testing positive after being cleared for movement based on those tests makes that clear. The tests he mentioned are the ones TPWD relied on when depopulating Kerr over what turned out to be a false positive. They were roundly criticized for that decision by plenty of folks here. So which is it? Are the tests reliable? Or are TPWD rubes for believing they were reliable? You can't have it both ways.

The supplemental feeding claim is just BS unless it is backed up by science, which I have seen no evidence of. And he complains that TPWD is not participating in funding research, but you guys are claiming that they are money grubbing to want more research money. Which is it? They are spending about $2 million a year, mostly on more testing. Do you want them to do more research or not? If so, you can't turn around and call them money grubbers for trying to get more money for research.

Look, I get that being rabidly antigovernment about everything is part of Ted's schtick. I share his opinion about a lot of what goes on in government. But to me, the tale of how TPWD was forced to abandon a management plan that was developed in cooperation with breeders and included Dr. Deer is a tale of government corruption. The breeders got their guys in the legislature to let TPWD know what the consequences would be for trying to follow the plan as it was developed. Most of that spread of CWD exposed deer on that map I posted previously would not have happened if they had followed the plan. It would have also saved them from having to kill a lot of those deer in herds they eventually depopulated.

---

schmellba99 said:

---

txags92 said:

---

The accuracy of the live tests they mentioned are in use by TPWD to let breeders keep moving deer and are not accurate enough. The number of animals subsequently testing positive after being cleared for movement based on those tests makes that clear. The tests he mentioned are the ones TPWD relied on when depopulating Kerr over what turned out to be a false positive. They were roundly criticized for that decision by plenty of folks here. So which is it? Are the tests reliable? Or are TPWD rubes for believing they were reliable? You can't have it both ways.

The supplemental feeding claim is just BS unless it is backed up by science, which I have seen no evidence of. And he complains that TPWD is not participating in funding research, but you guys are claiming that they are money grubbing to want more research money. Which is it? They are spending about $2 million a year, mostly on more testing. Do you want them to do more research or not? If so, you can't turn around and call them money grubbers for trying to get more money for research.

Look, I get that being rabidly antigovernment about everything is part of Ted's schtick. I share his opinion about a lot of what goes on in government. But to me, the tale of how TPWD was forced to abandon a management plan that was developed in cooperation with breeders and included Dr. Deer is a tale of government corruption. The breeders got their guys in the legislature to let TPWD know what the consequences would be for trying to follow the plan as it was developed. Most of that spread of CWD exposed deer on that map I posted previously would not have happened if they had followed the plan. It would have also saved them from having to kill a lot of those deer in herds they eventually depopulated.

---

IIRC, the live test has about a 50% failure rate, so it's a coin flip at best

---

96ags said:

---

txags92 said:

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.

---

Irony at its finest.

---

98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.

---

.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.

---

I would be in favor of funding TPWD to allow them to test every single deer brought to a deer processing facility for several seasons to rectify that imbalance. How about you?

One thing that the numbers stated previous show is that if you count all of tests performed by TPWD on free-range whitetails as of 2024, the percent positive is much lower than if you count the testing of all whitetails as of Jan 2023, implying that the percent positive in the captive population testing is much higher.

---

Not if TPWD is doing the testing. If it is 1. voluntary, and 2. done by an independent 3rd party, sure I would support that. I would wager that TPWD would not support my suggestion though.

I have not seen any per capita numbers that state what you have said. Where are you finding the percentages that show a "much lower" infection rate?

Everything I have seen has shown a roughly .2% positive or a 99.8% negative rate.

---

txags92 said:

---

96ags said:

---

txags92 said:

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.

---

Irony at its finest.

---

98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.

---

.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.

---

I would be in favor of funding TPWD to allow them to test every single deer brought to a deer processing facility for several seasons to rectify that imbalance. How about you?

One thing that the numbers stated previous show is that if you count all of tests performed by TPWD on free-range whitetails as of 2024, the percent positive is much lower than if you count the testing of all whitetails as of Jan 2023, implying that the percent positive in the captive population testing is much higher.

---

Not if TPWD is doing the testing. If it is 1. voluntary, and 2. done by an independent 3rd party, sure I would support that. I would wager that TPWD would not support my suggestion though.

I have not seen any per capita numbers that state what you have said. Where are you finding the percentages that show a "much lower" infection rate?

Everything I have seen has shown a roughly .2% positive or a 99.8% negative rate.

---

The numbers montanagriz posted showed ~110k tests of free range white tails as of 2024 with a 0.08% positive rate and ~289k total tests of all types (free range, breeder, and breeder release) as of 2023 with 0.185% positive. That implies that the 180k or so breeder deer or breeder release deer were probably around .25-.3% positve or 3x the free range rate. When you consider only 4 of the free range positives came from areas not adjacent to infected new mexico areas or near infected breeders, the true rate of positives in free range deer is MUCH lower than the captive population.

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.

---

Irony at its finest.

---

98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.

---

.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.

---

96ags said:

---

txags92 said:

---

96ags said:

---

txags92 said:

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.

---

Irony at its finest.

---

98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.

---

.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.

---

I would be in favor of funding TPWD to allow them to test every single deer brought to a deer processing facility for several seasons to rectify that imbalance. How about you?

One thing that the numbers stated previous show is that if you count all of tests performed by TPWD on free-range whitetails as of 2024, the percent positive is much lower than if you count the testing of all whitetails as of Jan 2023, implying that the percent positive in the captive population testing is much higher.

---

Not if TPWD is doing the testing. If it is 1. voluntary, and 2. done by an independent 3rd party, sure I would support that. I would wager that TPWD would not support my suggestion though.

I have not seen any per capita numbers that state what you have said. Where are you finding the percentages that show a "much lower" infection rate?

Everything I have seen has shown a roughly .2% positive or a 99.8% negative rate.

---

The numbers montanagriz posted showed ~110k tests of free range white tails as of 2024 with a 0.08% positive rate and ~289k total tests of all types (free range, breeder, and breeder release) as of 2023 with 0.185% positive. That implies that the 180k or so breeder deer or breeder release deer were probably around .25-.3% positve or 3x the free range rate. When you consider only 4 of the free range positives came from areas not adjacent to infected new mexico areas or near infected breeders, the true rate of positives in free range deer is MUCH lower than the captive population.

---

No, that does not imply what you are saying. I know you want it to say that, but it simply does not. As I said, it does not appear to me that TPWD provides the apples to apples data.

---

harge57 said:

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.

---

Irony at its finest.

---

98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.

---

.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.

---

Ummm no.

From 2015-2022, more than 127,000 samples were collected from hunter-harvested and roadkill deer.

Deer breeders must:

Test 100% of the deer that die in their pens (59,523 tests performed since 2006),

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.

---

Irony at its finest.

---

98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.

---

.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.

---

Ummm no.

From 2015-2022, more than 127,000 samples were collected from hunter-harvested and roadkill deer.

Deer breeders must:

Test 100% of the deer that die in their pens (59,523 tests performed since 2006),

---

There have been over 300,000 deer tested in the state of Texas. Your numbers are bit off.

I'd love to have the raw data to compare but it just isn't made readily available by TPWD.

---

txags92 said:

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

96ags said:

---

harge57 said:

---

The same old posters are here spewing their nonsense from one paid off biologist and and a 70s rock star.

Captive breeding operations and transportation is THE reason CWD is even discussed in this state. It is wholly responsible for the exponential spread of CWD in Texas.

Actual biologists recommendations have been curtailed for years by big money breeder politics. The public is waking up to that fact and TPWD is finally doing something about it. But if we want real change we need legislation banning the transport of live deer in this state. To think otherwise is obtuse and based in ignorance.

We are letting (probably too late) the self interests of a few ruin the native deer herd.

This nonsense about TPWD funding is ridiculous.

This all coming from someone who has and will eat CWD infected meat until someone actually gets infected from it.

---

Irony at its finest.

---

98% of Whitetail CWD cases in TX are from captive breeders.

---

.

Kind of inline with the percentage of testing done.

---

Ummm no.

From 2015-2022, more than 127,000 samples were collected from hunter-harvested and roadkill deer.

Deer breeders must:

Test 100% of the deer that die in their pens (59,523 tests performed since 2006),

---

There have been over 300,000 deer tested in the state of Texas. Your numbers are bit off.

I'd love to have the raw data to compare but it just isn't made readily available by TPWD.

---

That is correct. There have been many more breeder tests than just those that died on their properties.

---

schmellba99 said:

---

I see you follow Kroll. He has significant stakes in breeding operations and is highly biased. He also picks the numbers and words he uses very carefully.

CWD has been known since the 60's, and it was almost exclusively limited to western states and in mule deer and elk. In Texas, there was a couple of cases of it being detected - all in mule deer IIRC - in the panhandle and maybe way out in El Paso area.

Then deer breeding became a thing and all of a sudden multiple cases pop up along the 35 corridor - where, coincdentally, most deer breeding operations are located. Deer breeding is the single biggest - not the only cause, but the single biggest by far - contributing factor to the spread of the disease and the numbers show it in spades.

https://instagr.am/p/Cs9JxLiupez

---

country said:

---

I don't wade into the weeds of this argument often. All I know is there was a facility that was shut down in our area and because of that all deer harvested within a defined zone have had to be tested ever since. I believe we just finished the 4th year. There have been zero positive tests from the wild animals harvested within the zone. I still have no idea how much longer mandatory testing is required but at some point it becomes an overreach of government authority in my opinion. Not sure when that point is, and I understand testing to ensure containment, but it can't just be until the government calls it quits.

---

country said:

---

TPWD needs a clear policy. If it's 7 years then so be it. If it's 10 years so be it. But simply saying we are from the government and are here to help until we get tired isn't right. There is always a "problem" that allows the government to enter the picture. There is rarely a solution that gets them out. And recognize that I don't have a problem with the testing in response to an outbreak. Just the vagueness it entails.

---

montanagriz said:

---

Maybe if tpwd incentivized people that voluntarily tested that could work getting data vs just govt over reach.

Like normal 75 dollar deer processing fee or skinning fee waved if you agree to test. Tpwd just pays the processor those fees. If not money, maybe tpwd rewards those that volunteer with an extra buck tag.

---

country said:

---

Perhaps. But they should be criticized for not publicizing it. I'm just providing an example of why the public (non-breeders) don't simply bend over backwards to help TPWD. They are unfairly demonized as the anti-Christ by one side of this argument and propped up as the savior by the other. The reality is they have a lot of crap they need to get ironed out to gain favor with a lot of folks. Many of which are on their side of the debate.

---

country said:

---

Doctor51 said:

---

I absolutely didn't read any of this but if you had a deer test positive are you feeding it to your kids? I had low fence harvested one in mandatory testing come back inconclusive two years ago.

Just curious if positive test would you feed it to your kids

---

I'm not sure what the point of this type of post is. But no I wouldn't feed meat from a known sick animal to my kids. I also wouldn't let my kids run outside in the rain if I had a known that lightening would strike them that particular day. Roughly the same odds consuming deer harvested from the wild heard.

---

montanagriz said:

---

I was looking for solutions to get hunter participation up in willingly donating to test. Most people dont want to test due to fear of a positive and then tpwd coming to their property and killing all deer and no more hunting.

If you gave reasons like either money by paying processing fees or skinning fees or an extra deer tag for those hunters that process their own deer but drop off the head to tpwd.

I dont care about greasing the processors palms which already make money on deer from hunters but the deer is still the "hunters" deer, not the processors.

I guess tpwd plan is to just take deer from processors or get hunters so scared they willing turn deer in to test for fear of eating a cwd postive deer.

---

fullback44 said:

---

How about just shut all deer hunting down for 3-4 years… kind of like when they take our fishing limits away, just shut it down and let everyone cool off a bit

---

fullback44 said:

---

Everyone go talk to a beef breeder and get him to set you up a blind in the field and let you shoot a good eating steer… the meat is better then deer meat anyway

---

schmellba99 said:

---

montanagriz said:

---

I was looking for solutions to get hunter participation up in willingly donating to test. Most people dont want to test due to fear of a positive and then tpwd coming to their property and killing all deer and no more hunting.

If you gave reasons like either money by paying processing fees or skinning fees or an extra deer tag for those hunters that process their own deer but drop off the head to tpwd.

I dont care about greasing the processors palms which already make money on deer from hunters but the deer is still the "hunters" deer, not the processors.

I guess tpwd plan is to just take deer from processors or get hunters so scared they willing turn deer in to test for fear of eating a cwd postive deer.

---

Where has this occurred?

I'll readily admit that I'm not up to the second on the ins and outs of all things CWD, but my understandng is that the only time herds have been eradicated is when CWD was discovered in captive (I.E. - breeder operations) herds.

CWD is known to exist in the wild, there is no way that TPWD could come in and eradicate an entire wild population in an area, there would be logistical impossibilities and legal issues associated with that for sure.

---