Conveniently ignoring the one at 40 that has the vitals turned to mush? They get more violent in close, not less. If you insist on an exit, sure, use something else. A Berger will likely exit, but the core lokt, partition, accubond, doesn't matter. Anything can kill little deer up close.

ttha_aggie_09 said:

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For the record, I could absolutely spend more time on the range too - especially with handguns.

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Me too, man. Me too.

What you described is why I stopped using the Berger VLD. It hits skin and dumps everything in cavity. Never had an exit wound or blood trail on scimitar oryx or axis, both dead within 50 yards but both found by tracks & grid search.

Insides were jelly on both but do not like having to track. I did go off script to save some shoulder meat on those 2 and hit them in the ribs, but still didn't like the performance.

I've taken a liking to Barnes products in sub .30cal loads (6.5-300Wby and .257Wby) especially. The 200gr ELD-X out of my .300Wby is still my favorite potion.

agsalaska said:

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This will save you the trouble for next time.

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I've shot one deer with my 6.5 Creedmoor, and it was a nice 8 point at 100 yards with those Remington 140gr Core Lokts.

Knocked him straight over -- dead. Inexpensive, but they perform at the ranges I am shooting deet.

They group inside MOA in my Browning A-Bolt.

Never seen or heard of a deer going 150 yards with damaged lungs and heart.

Shot a lot of deer with 6.5m 143 eldx. Maybe I haven't experienced this issue cause I shoot them in the neck mostly at 100 and in. Shot lots of animals from 400 yds and in and have never NOT had an exit wound either.
.

I've never had any issues with my Grendel. Double lung and everything has ran about 30 yards. Sure placement is key but my last one ricocheted off a rib and made a mess. Ran 10 yards and pilled up. Been pleased with the performance of the round.

What bullet?

Sst on everything longest was 220 yards, all Texas deer.

Nice!

We need a Texags range day at Cawthorn

My academy was stocked!!

JeremiahJohnson said:

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We need a Texags range day at Cawthorn

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I'm in, I can show off my collection I've acquired through Texags.

NRH ag 10 said:

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Conveniently ignoring the one at 40 that has the vitals turned to mush? They get more violent in close, not less. If you insist on an exit, sure, use something else. A Berger will likely exit, but the core lokt, partition, accubond, doesn't matter. Anything can kill little deer up close.

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I missed that 40 yard comment

You are the only one talking about 'little deer'. I don't see any 'little deer' in any of those pictures.

And don't even remember what point I was making other than for deer sized game inside about 300 yards nothing is more effective than a soft point bullet.

INIGO MONTOYA said:

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Never seen or heard of a deer going 150 yards with damaged lungs and heart.

Shot a lot of deer with 6.5m 143 eldx. Maybe I haven't experienced this issue cause I shoot them in the neck mostly at 100 and in. Shot lots of animals from 400 yds and in and have never NOT had an exit wound either.
.

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I haven't either. Was very odd. 150 was estimate - he made a bit of a loop , was not found in the direction he ran. My expectation with Berger's is, they don't take a step.

NRH ag 10 said:

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It's supposed to fragment. That's how they work, and they work well.

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Look up what ELDX does when over 3000fps. It fragments before penetration.

I was replying to your comment about ballistic gel tests with actual experience killing animals bigger than the typical Texas whitetail. The little deer comment was just meeting snark with snark.

WestTexAg12 said:

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NRH ag 10 said:

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It's supposed to fragment. That's how they work, and they work well.

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Look up what ELDX does when over 3000fps. It fragments before penetration.

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1. Maybe a contact shot with a 6.5 PRC is close to that impact velocity. 6.5 creed will be 300fps below that at the muzzle.

2. Are you saying the bullet is going to come apart outside the hide?

Core Lokt is a good bullet, but Federal Fusion is the bees knees.

carl spacklers hat said:

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Gunny456 said:

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It's just amazing that we ever got animals down and dead before the advent of all the new super cartridges.
I think all the OB should break down and just clean out our gun safes and get rid of all those .243's, .270's, .308's,
.280's, 7mm-08's, 25-06,s and other old non killing cartridges before they are totally not worth anything.
Let's have a OB sale!

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I'll take your .270s and 25-06s.

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And I'll take the .280s, please.

Red Pear Realty said:

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Core Lokt is a good bullet, but Federal Fusion is the bees knees.

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It's also expensive as hell.

NRH ag 10 said:

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I was replying to your comment about ballistic gel tests with actual experience killing animals bigger than the typical Texas whitetail. The little deer comment was just meeting snark with snark.

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Fair enough. I was definitely being snarky.

For the record, if I ever by another deer rifle it will be in 6.5 Creedmore. Not a hater. Also not a hater of latest and greatest bullets. I just don't think they are necessary and are sometimes counterproductive in most hunting applications. 10 year olds from 80 yards need Core Lokts.

Thats all.

How do they act? Lose some weight of the nose and the base holds together?

Why can't I get a Grendel with fusion.

It looks like they do make it. My biggest complaint against federal fusion is that it seems like they make it in batches and it might be a year or more in between releases.

https://www.federalpremium.com/rifle/fusion/11-F65GDLMSR1.html

I'm not up to speed on all these different rounds but growing up I had a friend that he and his dad shot a 6mm Remington and killed all kinds of stuff all over the USA without issue.

How does that compare to the 6.5 Creedmore or Grendel?

Asking as a guy who has shot every deer since I was a kid with the same .308.

I chose the Grendel because I can shoot it out of a AR15 instead of a AR10, but shot plenty of deer with the 308. I believe that every round at 243 and above is absolutely capable although I know a lot of people believe in lighter calibers. My personal rule is 100 grain minimum so it weeds some of the lighter stuff out for me but I don't judge.

Caliber said:

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CS78 said:

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I think there is something to the persistent rumble of mediocre performance from the 6.5s. Im not saying they wont kill, but I feel there are better options when it comes to lethality. I think at least some of the mediocre performance lies in the combination of a smaller caliber at relatively lower end speeds. I like my smaller caliber guns to be 3000+ fps at the muzzle OR I like the caliber to be .30 or larger. Any time you arent meeting one of those two criteria, it seems the chance for mediocre results increases.

But, it does sound like some of your examples would not have been examples, if they were given more time before approaching.

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The issue is really an overly successful marketing campaign.

They made it out to be the best thing ever so every one bought them. The problem is that most people are actually crappy shots and won't ever admit it, so naturally it is the guns fault, never theirs.

I know people that think 30-06 can't kill deer,308 is a crappy round. .243 is to small, basically anything they can blame on a bad shot besides the common denominator.

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Agree with you, but personal opinion is people also aren't considering the variation in subspecies of the animals in different regions of the country. I'm not saying the round can't kill any of them, but let's be honest, a south Texas whitetail doesn't have the mass of a Canadian bruiser. The difference in mass of the animals probably leads to different experiences depending on where the shooter is hunting. But as far as blaming the round, it's getting lumped in one pool.

NRH ag 10 said:

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How do they act? Lose some weight of the nose and the base holds together?

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HOw do what act?

Sorry not following the question

What do they do in animals? Is there a bit of weight loss, 100% weight retention, etc.

TarponChaser said:

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I'm not up to speed on all these different rounds but growing up I had a friend that he and his dad shot a 6mm Remington and killed all kinds of stuff all over the USA without issue.

How does that compare to the 6.5 Creedmore or Grendel?

Asking as a guy who has shot every deer since I was a kid with the same .308.

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6mm is almost equal to a .243

Both the 6.5 rounds you a referring to would basically fall right between a 6mm and a .308. Thats WAY oversimplifying things.

They are slower projectiles than both the .308 and 6mm but have better long range ballistics than both, though not by any practical measure for most hunting applications unless you are really going long or in very windy conditions.

SOmeone else can probably explain that a little better than I can.

Stupid 6.5 is so ineffective… if only all of these animals didn't die right in their tracks (and I have many more not uploaded)















v

NRH ag 10 said:

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What do they do in animals? Is there a bit of weight loss, 100% weight retention, etc.

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Gotcha,

They are generally pass throughs, but in the rare event I do find them they are mushroomed out in the back side of the skin or in the ribs. But thats rare. Really rare. I have never seen one come apart in any meaningful way.

Generally they leave the chest cavity completely destroyed and have an exit wound somewhere between a golf ball and a baseball size. A few have run but leave blood trails and none lived longer than a few seconds after being shot.

That's out of a .243 but I see the same thing out of my .257 Roberts, my 6.5 Swede, and my 30-06.

257 Bob, eh? You really do like the classics.

If you got time, 6K replies. If not, hit the cheat sheet.

Enjoy

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/

JeremiahJohnson said:

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I never said the animals weren't dead. I just said they are inconsistent in expansion and fragment leading them to not exit.

This often means hard to find blood trails and inexperienced hunters unable to find their animals.

I have shot a quite a few deer with ELDX. A majority of the animals that hit bone didn't have exit wounds. This doesn't happen on a more stable bullet.

You act like my opinion is out of the ordinary. Tons of people share my experience. At close range the bullets fragment. At longer range they hold together and have better expansion.

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Honest question, what do you think an eldx does at longer range with lower impact velocity? Say low 2k to 1800fps?