agsalaska said:

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This will save you the trouble for next time.

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That's bad medicine for most things. Id trust that 2700 fps & soft tip over the ELD-x all day for Texas feeder shots.

Just high shoulder everything. They won't stand a chance

agsalaska said:

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This will save you the trouble for next time.

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You beat me to it. Came here to post the Core Lokt suggestion.

We used to shoot a ton of Remington Corelokt. But years ago I started getting some really crappy groups from Remington in multiple calibers. I stopped trusting them especially with all of the crap Remington has gone through over the years. Don't trust their QC.

Furlock Bones said:

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We used to shoot a ton of Remington Corelokt. But years ago I started getting some really crappy groups from Remington in multiple calibers. I stopped trusting them especially with all of the crap Remington has gone through over the years. Don't trust their QC.

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I know that to also be true but I am quite sure they have gotten past those issues. They are a healthy company today owned by the best ammo producers in the world.

I think there is something to the persistent rumble of mediocre performance from the 6.5s. Im not saying they wont kill, but I feel there are better options when it comes to lethality. I think at least some of the mediocre performance lies in the combination of a smaller caliber at relatively lower end speeds. I like my smaller caliber guns to be 3000+ fps at the muzzle OR I like the caliber to be .30 or larger. Any time you arent meeting one of those two criteria, it seems the chance for mediocre results increases.

But, it does sound like some of your examples would not have been examples, if they were given more time before approaching.

CS78 said:

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I think there is something to the persistent rumble of mediocre performance from the 6.5s. Im not saying they wont kill, but I feel there are better options when it comes to lethality. I think at least some of the mediocre performance lies in the combination of a smaller caliber at relatively lower end speeds. I like my smaller caliber guns to be 3000+ fps at the muzzle OR I like the caliber to be .30 or larger. Any time you arent meeting one of those two criteria, it seems the chance for mediocre results increases.

But, it does sound like some of your examples would not have been examples, if they were given more time before approaching.

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The issue is really an overly successful marketing campaign.

They made it out to be the best thing ever so every one bought them. The problem is that most people are actually crappy shots and won't ever admit it, so naturally it is the guns fault, never theirs.

I know people that think 30-06 can't kill deer,308 is a crappy round. .243 is to small, basically anything they can blame on a bad shot besides the common denominator.

CS78 said:

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I think there is something to the persistent rumble of mediocre performance from the 6.5s. Im not saying they wont kill, but I feel there are better options when it comes to lethality. I think at least some of the mediocre performance lies in the combination of a smaller caliber at relatively lower end speeds. I like my smaller caliber guns to be 3000+ fps at the muzzle OR I like the caliber to be .30 or larger. Any time you arent meeting one of those two criteria, it seems the chance for mediocre results increases.

But, it does sound like some of your examples would not have been examples, if they were given more time before approaching.

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I will preface this by saying that I do not completely disagree with you. However...

The problem with your argument is the 6.5x55 Swede has been killing everything under the sun, minus the most dangerous bears, for 130 + years. I have a Win 70 in 6.5 Swede that is retired in my safe but it never did anything but kill deer very dead very quickly in the short time I fielded it using soft point ammo.

Same with the non +p .257 Roberts. Thats a 2700 fps bullet too that is legendary.

I think Caliber is mostly right(user name checks out by the way). It is marketed to be something it is not.

I will also stick with my bullet selection problem not just in this instance but in a general observation as well. People will take a bullet designed for long distance shooting, or accurate shooting, or shooting thick skinned game, or whatever, and use them on deer because so and so company said to and it costs twice as much so it should kill twice as fast. When in reality they are just not as effective as soft point bullets. This is ESPECIALLY true in a 6.5 creedmore.

Has more to do with people using long range match bullets for hunting at a 50 yard corn feeder.

Also social media being an echo chamber for people to say something doesn't work.

6.5 has been around for 150 years just like all the other calibers. The creed is just a variation. It's widely accepted outside the US.

You think 243, 257 and 270 are more lethal than a .264? They are hundredths of an inch different in diameter.

Creed just allowed for heavier, higher BC bullets in a short action due to the faster twist. Nothing else is different.

Found this interesting when comparing the two. Almost identical. Creed is just higher pressure short action and Swede in long action.

Don't forget that terrible 6.5 Swede and 260 Remington!

Useless!

Gunny456 said:

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It's just amazing that we ever got animals down and dead before the advent of all the new super cartridges.
I think all the OB should break down and just clean out our gun safes and get rid of all those .243's, .270's, .308's,
.280's, 7mm-08's, 25-06,s and other old non killing cartridges before they are totally not worth anything.
Let's have a OB sale!

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I'll take your .270s and 25-06s.

JeremiahJohnson said:

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Found this interesting when comparing the two. Almost identical. Creed is just higher pressure short action and Swede in long action.

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Yea for 99.9% of hunting applications there is zero practical difference between the two.

I retired mine for the dumbest reason too. It is a 1983 Model 70 XTR Featherweight that I bought new old stock years ago. Second season I hunted with it I rubbed the bluing off the barrel in an area about the size of a dime just in front of the scope. I was so mad at myself that I yanked the scope off of it that day, put it in the back of my safe, and left it there. That was 15 years ago at least. My daughter is 15 and loves to hunt. I think I am going to get that little spot fixed and give it to her next deer season. She is 5'10 and will have zero issues handling that rifle.

I can't believe nobody has mentioned this yet, but it appears that nobody in OP's family has a face.

This is probably affecting accuracy.

JeremiahJohnson said:

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Has more to do with people using long range match bullets for hunting at a 50 yard corn feeder.

Also social media being an echo chamber for people to say something doesn't work.

6.5 has been around for 150 years just like all the other calibers. The creed is just a variation. It's widely accepted outside the US.

You think 243, 257 and 270 are more lethal than a .264? They are hundredths of an inch different in diameter.

Creed just allowed for heavier, higher BC bullets in a short action due to the faster twist. Nothing else is different.

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Depending on the specific bullet, this is just objectively wrong. There is so much evidence if one is willing to look. I get that you want retained weight and exits, that's fine and you don't have to use an ELDM, ELDX, TMK, Berger, or any of the other match type bullets that work, but what you're saying is just untrue.

Do you seriously think this wound channel is insufficient for ~120lb deer? Apparently Hornady thinks it's ok for people since it's part of their LE line.




Here's 178gr ELDX out of a 300WM for comparison:



Somehow the bullet magically zips through at the blistering velocity of ~2700 fps for a 147gr ELDM out of a creedmoor but fragments at longer range? A shot where no one would bat an eye if you used a .357 lever gun or a .300 blk, but those danged match bullets just won't work?

As others have said, it's poor shooting, plain and simple. I've killed mule deer and antelope from 40 yds to just under 12x that distance. They just freaking work.

Those cool bullets sure did kill the hell out of that ballistics gel.

When I do use my 6.5 Creedmoor I shoot Federal 6.5 Creedmoor 130 Gr. Barnes TSX rounds and have never had a issue on Whitetail deer or medium size game

Quote:

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Has more to do with people using long range match bullets for hunting

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Oh man. Not this again.

This thread was solved with the first reply to the OP.

Similarly- I've shot everything from a pig at less than 10 yards, to elk at 325. Killed whitetail and pigs at just about every distance between those two. Pronghorn, mulies, elk, pigs- if you put it in the boiler room, the ELD-X will dump ample lethal energy right in the center of the animal.

Anytime I have had a tougher recovery, it has ALWAYS been because of my shot placement being less than optimal.

agsalaska said:

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Those cool bullets sure did kill the hell out of that ballistics gel.

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156gr berger from a 6.5x284 at ~460 yds. went maybe 30 yds, dead in seconds.



6.5 cm, 147gr ELDM. Dont remember yardage, more than 300 less than 400, 30-40 yd death run.



~470 yds, DRT. Same combo as above.



Don't remember exact yardage, I think low 300s. DRT, same combo as above.



40 yd frontal shot. Made it ~20-30 yds. I usually do the gutless method, but since this was close the the truck I gutted this doe and dragged her back so I could make it out before the snow got worse. Instant regret, the base of the bullet had almost made it totally through the deer. It was a mess.

Also killed a pronghorn buck at 200 with that ammo, but don't have photos.

Sorry, guess I don't have any relevant experience shooting deer the size of my dog under a feeder, so none of this counts.

I never said the animals weren't dead. I just said they are inconsistent in expansion and fragment leading them to not exit.

This often means hard to find blood trails and inexperienced hunters unable to find their animals.

I have shot a quite a few deer with ELDX. A majority of the animals that hit bone didn't have exit wounds. This doesn't happen on a more stable bullet.

You act like my opinion is out of the ordinary. Tons of people share my experience. At close range the bullets fragment. At longer range they hold together and have better expansion.

You just made my point. We are not talking about shooting deer at 470 yards. That's the point.

Your kids have now killed deer better than I have ever even seen… Do you need a 24 year old???

75 -100 yards 6.5 PRC 143 ELDX. Exploded inside bothdeer. No exit wound. No blood trail. In my experience at close range the bullets do not hold together when they hit bone.

I give up.

I don't even know why I am arguing. You won't change my mind from my experience and I won't change yours. Haha

Great animals. Glad the bullet has worked for you.

I think people should spend more time on the range and less time arguing against the 6.5 Creedmoor

ttha_aggie_09 said:

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I think people should spend more time on the range

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Yes

Grendel has quickly become my favorite round. I've shot hogs out to 300, deer to almost 300, javelina to almost 400. I have not had anything run on me. I do wish they made a core lokt for it however.

My takeaway, which won't be changed.

It's not great at close range with eldx. Especially with a kid. Sure there are places on living beings that turn off the lights instantly but to say they is "the issue" is dumb. People aren't perfect. Weather isn't perfect. And animals aren't frozen in time as you shoot them.

I will try the core lokt asap. I am a fan of them already.

Longer range is better kill performance with eldx.

The smile on a kids face is amazing. They all are on cloud 9!!

JeremiahJohnson said:

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75 -100 yards 6.5 PRC 143 ELDX. Exploded inside bothdeer. No exit wound. No blood trail. In my experience at close range the bullets do not hold together when they hit bone.

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Had similar experience last weekend with 6.5 Gap and 140 vld. Hard quartering too me, shoulder entrance and ran off like not hit. Gave him some time for fear of hitting him further back. 0 blood while looking for him and my friends dog found him 150 yards away. Lungs,heart and got in guts. Looked like it got hit by a car but it ran too far and left 0 blood

This board would flip if they saw the 223 and match bullet data that's been hashed out on Rokslide forum by a prominent poster.

I don't think this group can wrap their head around a 77 TMK as a do it all big game bullet.

BenderRodriguez said:

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ttha_aggie_09 said:

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I think people should spend more time on the range

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Yes

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For the record, I could absolutely spend more time on the range too - especially with handguns.