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Govt wants to release Chinese beetle and moth to kill Chinese Tallows

4,369 Views | 61 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by John1248
shiftyandquick
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Beekeepers are against this as Chinese Tallow trees are hugely significant sources of nectar and honey in Texas.

But the Timber folks I assume would support it.

https://www.facebook.com/TexasBeekeepers/posts/3695576467185147
Bidens leg hairs
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Move over ligustrum and nandina...
aggiedent
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AG
When are we ever going to learn. Every time the powers that be try something like this, it creates an even bigger unforeseen problem.

AgResearch
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AG
We don't need any more Chinese imports. Still getting over the one they sent us last year.
Stasco
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They do make nice shade trees. I just hate those damn seed husks.
Mr. AGSPRT04
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Invasive species
ABATTBQ11
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This will end well...
ursusguy
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Well, I'm about to have a bunch of Chinese tallows removed.
Fishin Texas Aggie 05
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Going to hurt honey production big time
rab79
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And what native species will the beetle and moth prefer to munch on rather than the chinese tallow? Does the gov. know?
in order for democrats, liberals, progressives et al to continue their illogical belief systems they have to pretend not to know a lot of things' By pretending 'not to know' there is no guilt, no actual connection to conscience. Denial of truth allows easier trespass.
alvtimes
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here comes the usual govrn't cluster****
TAMUallen
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Keep on ****in it up.

Can we give them mesquite and juniper?
jtp01
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I detest tallow trees as much as anyone. I've cleared too many in my time. But this is a bad idea. Release TWO Chinese species to correct 1. That sounds like a REALLY BAD idea.
Apache
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Quote:

In the Houston area, Chinese tallow trees account for a full 23 percent of all trees, more than any other tree species and is the only invasive tree species in the 14 most common species in the area.

From wikipedia. I had no idea they were that prevalent in Houston. Here in Austin I see a few scattered around. Chinaberry is a major invasive here... I am vocal in my neighborhood telling people to cut them down where ever they see them.
zooguy96
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Chinaberry are much less of a problem in Austin than Tallow trees are in Houston. Most of the invasives we killed in Austin were something other than chinaberry. There were some of them, but not like the tallow forests they have around Houston.

Releasing another invasive is not the way to solve the problem. They don't know what unintended consequences there will be.

A good first step would be to have people cut them down in their yards.
Apache
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Quote:

Most of the invasives we killed in Austin were something other than chinaberry.

I imagine so... the understory in some of the greenbelts looks more like east asia than Texas.
Nandina, Photinia, ligustrum, black bamboo.... it's depressing.
Ornlu
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aggiedent said:

When are we ever going to learn. Every time the powers that be try something like this, it creates an even bigger unforeseen problem.




When have we tried something like this before? I know about a bunch of invasive species, but I don't know about any intentionally introduced species.
MouthBQ98
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Apache said:

Quote:

Most of the invasives we killed in Austin were something other than chinaberry.

I imagine so... the understory in some of the greenbelts looks more like east asia than Texas.
Nandina, Photinia, ligustrum, black bamboo.... it's depressing.


Was going to say this. Barton creek is ligustrum and Nandinas all over.

I kill invasives where I can. That being said, I think they're here to stay. Tallis trees are just bad because they form dense thickets and choke out all the competition. They are pretty in the fall, though.

I'm surprised at the bee issue. I grow LOADS of wildflowers on my place but rarely see honey bees. I do see other bee species on them sometimes.
78_Pacecar
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"Hi I am from the government and I am here to help!"
oklaunion
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The 20+ pairs of whitewings that overwinter on our property in Brazos county are going to be pissed.
Apache
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This method of control has worked in some cases.
Salvinia in Caddo lake is being controlled (or somewhat controlled) by importing weevils from S America to eat them.
AgResearch
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Apache said:

This method of control has worked in some cases.
Salvinia in Caddo lake is being controlled (or somewhat controlled) by importing weevils from S America to eat them.
Asian lady beetle was introduced to control soybean aphids. It didn't work and now the Midwest has those mfers infesting farm houses and are impossible to get rid of. Biological control works when you have a natural balance of predators but introducing another pest from China without secondary predators to keep it in check will be a disaster just like the Asian lady beetles.

The government kills products in development over honeybee concerns. However, is willing to bring in non-native pest to destroy trees that have been here for centuries now and honeybees have adapted to their needs. ****ing lunacy.
zooguy96
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Yep, and European Honey Bees aren't even native.....

We have hundreds of native bee species... they just don't fit the needs for big agriculture for pollination.
RustyBoltz
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Don't worry; I heard they'll put Eric Holder in charge of tracking the beetles to make sure they don't get out of control.
Shai-Hulud
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Apache said:

This method of control has worked in some cases.
Salvinia in Caddo lake is being controlled (or somewhat controlled) by importing weevils from S America to eat them.


Caddo Lake freezing over for the first time in over 30 years last week may do more than the weevils.
AgBQ-00
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This has Tennessee Kudzu issues written all over it.
Apache
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I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying it has worked in some cases, Caddo being one I'm aware of. (Hope the freeze kills the hell out of the Salvinia)

Quote:

The government kills products in development over honeybee concerns. However, is willing to bring in non-native pest to destroy trees that have been here for centuries now and honeybees have adapted to their needs. ****ing lunacy.
It's a tough problem to deal with... the genie is out of the bottle, Tallow trees are here to stay.
If you're not going to control them biologically, how to you get the invasives down to a managable level... say 5%?
Require all new development to remove invasives on site as part of construction costs?
Incentivize homeowners to remove existing tallow with $$?

iamtheglove
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I'm skeptical that releasing these 2 insects will solve the Tallow problem without creating many new and unknown issues. However, the biggest issue with Tallow is that just cutting it down triggers more propagation via the roots. There is no known effective way to eliminate it. Burning, pesticides, etc don't really work and once it gets a foothold it outcompetes the native trees. The recommended treatment is to chop down the tallow tree, drench the trunk in pesticide and then mow constantly around the perimeter of the trunk to take out root shoots. Even then the seeds, which a single tree can produce over 100,000 a season, can lay fallow for up to 7 years in the soil before sprouting. This is a bad, bad tree and will overwhelm most every native it encounters.
AggieOO
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rilloaggie
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http://lubbock.tamu.edu/files/2015/06/Biological_Control_of_Saltcedar.pdf

It looks like they have had decent success at slowing down salt cedar in west Texas with beetles. Hopefully if they've done proper research we can deal with tallow and not create a bigger problem down the road.
Troutslime
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They believe they can control the weather. The ceiling is limitless to our illustrious leaders.
SquirrellyDan
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There are lots of examples of invasive species being beneficial. The honeybee, for example, isn't native to the US. There's also plenty examples of intentionally introduced species that have been beneficial, although it's not often for the reasons we had planned.
schmellba99
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AgResearch said:

Apache said:

This method of control has worked in some cases.
Salvinia in Caddo lake is being controlled (or somewhat controlled) by importing weevils from S America to eat them.
Asian lady beetle was introduced to control soybean aphids. It didn't work and now the Midwest has those mfers infesting farm houses and are impossible to get rid of. Biological control works when you have a natural balance of predators but introducing another pest from China without secondary predators to keep it in check will be a disaster just like the Asian lady beetles.

The government kills products in development over honeybee concerns. However, is willing to bring in non-native pest to destroy trees that have been here for centuries now and honeybees have adapted to their needs. ****ing lunacy.
Those damn things are all over the place along the coast south of Houston. They stink too, and it is impossible to get rid of them permanently or their smell.
aggiedent
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AG
There's hundreds of examples to choose from.

European Starlings and House Sparrows were brought to the US by a gentleman who was a Shakespeare fan. He shipped every bird mentioned in a Shakespeare story to the US. These two became pests that outcompete many native birds.

Hydrilla was first brought to the US as an aquarium plant.

Etc. Etc.

And there are almost as many examples of "fighting invasive species with non-native predators" that have gone wrong.

Bringing in a non-native weevil to eat an invasive weed ends up eating native crop plants instead. A type of carp intended to eat invasive aquatic plants overtakes a lake. Or in Australia, the cane toad was brought in to eat the cane beetle. It ate everything and bred into the billions. Etc. etc.
zooguy96
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I wouldn't say the honeybee is beneficial to everything - i.e. they are harmful to species diversity with respect to the hundreds of species of our native bee populations.

Now, obviously, they are beneficial for a ton of agricultural crops. But, they have had an immensely strong impact on native species (both plant and animal) species diversity.

Pretty much every time humans try to "fix" something that they've already messed up (or, introduce something for a specific seen benefit but unseen harmful result), it messes it up further.
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