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Govt wants to release Chinese beetle and moth to kill Chinese Tallows

6,847 Views | 64 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by OnlyForNow
Atreides Ornithopter
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aggiedent said:

European Starlings.


African or European?
512Ag
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AggieOO said:


Came here to post this.
Spyderman
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Apache said:

This method of control has worked in some cases.
Salvinia in Caddo lake is being controlled (or somewhat controlled) by importing weevils from S America to eat them.
I recall assisting a TAMU ento grad student with his project dealing with this. He had a very impressive aqua system going on.
Grab some popcorn...why the ongoing cover-up? The Phenomenon: FF to 1:22:35 https://tubitv.com/movies/632920/the-phenomenon

An est. 68 MILLION Americans, including 19 MILLION Black Children, have been killed in the WOMB since 1973-act, pray and vote accordingly.

TAMU purpose statement: To develop leaders of character dedicated to serving the greater good. Team entrance song at KYLE FIELD is laced with profanity including THE Nword..
The greater good?
Funky Winkerbean
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How about the triploid grass carp put into Lake Conroe by TAMU?
It is so easy to be wrong—and to persist in being wrong—when the costs of being wrong are paid by others.
Thomas Sowell
Barnyard96
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Shai-Hulud said:

aggiedent said:

European Starlings.


African or European?
He could grip it by the husk.
spicyitalian
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Troutslime said:

How about the triploid grass carp put into Lake Conroe by TAMU?
I heard a rumor when I worked on the lake in HS that there was a recommendation to put 3000 in the lake and they put 30,000 instead. I remember seeing them all up along the bulkhead everytime the grass got cut and clippings went in the water.
gwellis
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shiftyandquick said:

Beekeepers are against this as Chinese Tallow trees are hugely significant sources of nectar and honey in Texas.

But the Timber folks I assume would support it.

https://www.facebook.com/TexasBeekeepers/posts/3695576467185147
That's a very bad idea.
Gil '91
rab79
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TAMUallen said:

Keep on ****in it up.

Can we give them mesquite and juniper?
pear, tons and tons of p ri ck ly pear, or we could retaliate for the wuhan flu with screwworms.

That would be evil.
NO AMNESTY!

in order for democrats, liberals, progressives et al to continue their illogical belief systems they have to pretend not to know a lot of things; by pretending "not to know" there is no guilt, no actual connection to conscience. Denial of truth allows easier trespass.
rab79
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spicyitalian said:

Troutslime said:

How about the triploid grass carp put into Lake Conroe by TAMU?
I heard a rumor when I worked on the lake in HS that there was a recommendation to put 3000 in the lake and they put 30,000 instead. I remember seeing them all up along the bulkhead everytime the grass got cut and clippings went in the water.

Yeah that worked out so well that the professor heading up the project left for north carolina shortly thereafter.
NO AMNESTY!

in order for democrats, liberals, progressives et al to continue their illogical belief systems they have to pretend not to know a lot of things; by pretending "not to know" there is no guilt, no actual connection to conscience. Denial of truth allows easier trespass.
rab79
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Ornlu said:

aggiedent said:

When are we ever going to learn. Every time the powers that be try something like this, it creates an even bigger unforeseen problem.




When have we tried something like this before? I know about a bunch of invasive species, but I don't know about any intentionally introduced species.
european carp, asian carp, tamarisk, the aforementioned chinese tallow, johnson grass, etc, etc, etc
NO AMNESTY!

in order for democrats, liberals, progressives et al to continue their illogical belief systems they have to pretend not to know a lot of things; by pretending "not to know" there is no guilt, no actual connection to conscience. Denial of truth allows easier trespass.
rab79
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iamtheglove said:

I'm skeptical that releasing these 2 insects will solve the Tallow problem without creating many new and unknown issues. However, the biggest issue with Tallow is that just cutting it down triggers more propagation via the roots. There is no known effective way to eliminate it. Burning, pesticides, etc don't really work and once it gets a foothold it outcompetes the native trees. The recommended treatment is to chop down the tallow tree, drench the trunk in pesticide and then mow constantly around the perimeter of the trunk to take out root shoots. Even then the seeds, which a single tree can produce over 100,000 a season, can lay fallow for up to 7 years in the soil before sprouting. This is a bad, bad tree and will overwhelm most every native it encounters.
huh, I get good results by girdling and leaving them standing for a year.
NO AMNESTY!

in order for democrats, liberals, progressives et al to continue their illogical belief systems they have to pretend not to know a lot of things; by pretending "not to know" there is no guilt, no actual connection to conscience. Denial of truth allows easier trespass.
agent-maroon
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Quote:

european carp, asian carp, tamamrisk, the aforementioned chinese tallow, johnson grass, etc, etc, etc
Do you mean to tell me that johnson grass was introduced intentionally? WTH?
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C1NRB
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rilloaggie said:

http://lubbock.tamu.edu/files/2015/06/Biological_Control_of_Saltcedar.pdf

It looks like they have had decent success at slowing down salt cedar in west Texas with beetles. Hopefully if they've done proper research we can deal with tallow and not create a bigger problem down the road.

I was going to cite this same study. Learned about it from the county agent in Howard County in the late 90s. They vetted those beetles for years before releasing them to make sure they wouldn't eat anything else, especially cotton. The little buggers (no pun intended) would rather starve to death than eat anything else. You can see the results on the south side of I 20 on the west side of Big Spring.
As long as the ag folks do their due diligence...
rab79
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agent-maroon said:

Quote:

european carp, asian carp, tamamrisk, the aforementioned chinese tallow, johnson grass, etc, etc, etc
Do you mean to tell me that johnson grass was introduced intentionally? WTH?
yep as forage

Quote:

Johnson grass or Johnsongrass, Sorghum halepense, is a plant in the grass family, Poaceae, native to Asia and northern Africa. The plant has been introduced to all continents except Antarctica, and most larger islands and archipelagos
NO AMNESTY!

in order for democrats, liberals, progressives et al to continue their illogical belief systems they have to pretend not to know a lot of things; by pretending "not to know" there is no guilt, no actual connection to conscience. Denial of truth allows easier trespass.
Micropterus
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A few points I would like to weigh in on here:
A. I can kill the **** out of every tallow I find with several different methods and chemicals. Que up the Arsenal and go to work. However tallows are super prolific and unfortunately wont ever be eradicated.
B. We had bees when I was a boy growing up. Dont ever recall seeing a tallow tree for hundreds of miles, yet the bees seemed to do just fine on clover and buttercups. Rid the tallows and watch the proliferation of native pollinator species spring forth.
C. Weevils work marginally well on salvinia, but after last week's little cool spell, they gone.
D. Subsequently, you have to have ice formation around the roots on salvinia to kill it, which we got on Caddo. But I've seen that happen before on Bistineau. It cleared it up for a couple years, but all it takes is for a few species to survive and in 2-3 years, you have a mess again.

Introducing one invasive species to combat another shows a lack of critical thought process. We have enough effective tools to control tallow; its the ability to attack broad scale that is missing at the moment.
oldord
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In the last 20 years, I spent over $500,000 or more trying to control Chinese tallow trees.
Fire nominally works, herbicide works most of the time and mechanical never works.

As long as you can localize it, sign me up. Definitely don't want native species hurt and I absolutely despise tallow trees.
oldord
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Micropterus said:

A few points I would like to weigh in on here:
A. I can kill the **** out of every tallow I find with several different methods and chemicals. Que up the Arsenal and go to work. However tallows are super prolific and unfortunately wont ever be eradicated.
B. We had bees when I was a boy growing up. Dont ever recall seeing a tallow tree for hundreds of miles, yet the bees seemed to do just fine on clover and buttercups. Rid the tallows and watch the proliferation of native pollinator species spring forth.
C. Weevils work marginally well on salvinia, but after last week's little cool spell, they gone.
D. Subsequently, you have to have ice formation around the roots on salvinia to kill it, which we got on Caddo. But I've seen that happen before on Bistineau. It cleared it up for a couple years, but all it takes is for a few species to survive and in 2-3 years, you have a mess again.

Introducing one invasive species to combat another shows a lack of critical thought process. We have enough effective tools to control tallow; its the ability to attack broad scale that is missing at the moment.


Brother, you must not have fought tallow trees much.
Unless you have time and money and lots of resources to throw at it. It's a never ending battle.

If you leave one pasture alone for five years and leave one tallow tree in it. And you were in Southeast Texas, that entire pasture is gone in five years.
12f Mane
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Micropterus said:

B. We had bees when I was a boy growing up. Dont ever recall seeing a tallow tree for hundreds of miles, yet the bees seemed to do just fine on clover and buttercups. Rid the tallows and watch the proliferation of native pollinator species spring forth.

This is a great point and should be the focus of the eradication. Returning the ecosystems that are choked with tallow back to their previous form - coastal prairie. You have to look at the potential benefits to more than one species (honey bees in this case). Tallow is devastating to coastal prairies.
BQ_90
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Quote:

If you leave one pasture alone for five years and leave one tallow tree in it. And you were in Southeast Texas, that entire pasture is gone in five years.
Also can do the same thing in forested stand, if you cut trees, tallow will come first, if you have storm that takes out bunch of trees, tallow is first to come back.

And it's not easy to control once it gets established. You spray over the top, but then that releases the little ones underneath. Its constant management with constant input of dollars to control.
Milwaukees Best Light
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Tallow bad
Axis good

Got it.
P.H. Dexippus
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Interesting article
https://www.se-eppc.org/wildlandweeds/pdf/SP-99-GRACE-9-14.pdf
Bradley.Kohr.II
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Would rotational grazing work? I saw a study from U of Alabamathat they had good results on kudzu rotational,y grazing goats.
iamtheglove
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rab79 said:

iamtheglove said:

I'm skeptical that releasing these 2 insects will solve the Tallow problem without creating many new and unknown issues. However, the biggest issue with Tallow is that just cutting it down triggers more propagation via the roots. There is no known effective way to eliminate it. Burning, pesticides, etc don't really work and once it gets a foothold it outcompetes the native trees. The recommended treatment is to chop down the tallow tree, drench the trunk in pesticide and then mow constantly around the perimeter of the trunk to take out root shoots. Even then the seeds, which a single tree can produce over 100,000 a season, can lay fallow for up to 7 years in the soil before sprouting. This is a bad, bad tree and will overwhelm most every native it encounters.
huh, I get good results by girdling and leaving them standing for a year.
Does that apply to larger trees as well? I have a 40 acre property in Matagorda county where there are several mature tallow trees (30+ feet tall) but very few younger trees, thankfully. It was my understanding that the girdling treatment was both more difficult (due to bark thickness) and less effective on mature trees. Is that your experience?
Micropterus
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oldord said:

Micropterus said:

A few points I would like to weigh in on here:
A. I can kill the **** out of every tallow I find with several different methods and chemicals. Que up the Arsenal and go to work. However tallows are super prolific and unfortunately wont ever be eradicated.
B. We had bees when I was a boy growing up. Dont ever recall seeing a tallow tree for hundreds of miles, yet the bees seemed to do just fine on clover and buttercups. Rid the tallows and watch the proliferation of native pollinator species spring forth.
C. Weevils work marginally well on salvinia, but after last week's little cool spell, they gone.
D. Subsequently, you have to have ice formation around the roots on salvinia to kill it, which we got on Caddo. But I've seen that happen before on Bistineau. It cleared it up for a couple years, but all it takes is for a few species to survive and in 2-3 years, you have a mess again.

Introducing one invasive species to combat another shows a lack of critical thought process. We have enough effective tools to control tallow; its the ability to attack broad scale that is missing at the moment.


Brother, you must not have fought tallow trees much.
Unless you have time and money and lots of resources to throw at it. It's a never ending battle.

If you leave one pasture alone for five years and leave one tallow tree in it. And you were in Southeast Texas, that entire pasture is gone in five years.
Not disagreeing with you by any means. If you kill one, there's a thousand to take its place. Its a never-ending fight. Just making the point that there are tools, especially the right herbicide applied at the right rate and via the right method can control what is there. Not trying to give the impression that it's a one and done approach - its takes years of active management, but you can hold them at bay. Now cost, well thats another factor entirely.

Got decades of experience fighting this species, which I hate with a purple passion. One thing I've noticed through the years (and this is merely my anecdotal observation - no empirical evidence to support this) is that when they first invade an area, it seems that they always show up in a riparian area or wetland.
SanAntoneAg
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Wait, can we even say Chinese Tallow anymore without being racist?

Surely the name casts undue negative perceptions.
Gig 'em! '90
TRADUCTOR
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I've seen horror movies based on the same premise.
John1248
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agent-maroon said:

Quote:

european carp, asian carp, tamamrisk, the aforementioned chinese tallow, johnson grass, etc, etc, etc
Do you mean to tell me that johnson grass was introduced intentionally? WTH?


So was McCartney Rose. Or Rose Hedge as we like to call it. We are constantly fighting it and Chinese tallow.
Mike88Ag
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Which herbicide do you use on the Chinese tallow trees? I was thinking about trying a basal bark treatment with Brushtox (triclopyr) on several dozen that are growing on our land in Colorado County. Have you ever tried it, and if so, does it work best mixed with diesel or water?
Cromagnum
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I'm sure these wondrous little beetles will get a taste for white and red oak in short order and stop bothering with tallow.
Junction71
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The state legislature forced/designated A&M to do the Lake Conroe stocking of triploid grass carp and subsequent study.

Regarding Giant Salvinia and the biocontrol agent Salvinia Weevil we (TPWD )had limited success with most of the success in very small impoundments further south in Texas (around Houston where S. molesta first found). I can almost guarantee that every salvinia weevil was killed by the February freeze. That's the issue with using an insect for biocontrol in Texas---prolonged freezing weather causes you to have to start over every year.
OnlyForNow
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Clear cast works well on tallow as an aerial application.


If you cut the tree then your suggestion would do the trick as well.
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