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Paging Ursus - Lion kill or Coyotes??

9,757 Views | 96 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by txrancher69
raidernarizona
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4:02p, 2/5/20
I will post pics as soon as I can and I believe I know the answer, but wanted an expert opinion.

My BIL just texted me pics of a dead whitetail doe and said a Mountain Lion killed it. Entire ass end is missing. Guts looked like they've been moved around, and a random gnawed up leg is detached from body. Blood stains in grass in field indicates doe was drug back and forth like something was playing tug-o-war. Not only that, but doe was left right in the wide open manicured field.

My first instinct was no way that's a lion, and I replied "looks like coyotes." He fired back, nope his Dad went TPWD and spoke with game warden and head biologist. Definitely a lion kill.

Just curious to get y'alls take. On the road. Post pics asap.
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agsalaska
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In reply to raidernarizona • 4:05p, 2/5/20
AG
Coyotes
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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toolshed
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4:06p, 2/5/20
AG
If I've learned anything from Ursus/ this board, odds are it's not a lion. ESPECIALLY if a game warden or other "official" says it is.
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Apache
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4:09p, 2/5/20
AG
Could be a lion kill if it is west of I-35. East of there it was probably a panther or coyotes. Wouldn't rule out feral dogs either.
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raidernarizona
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4:20p, 2/5/20
Location is between Ingram and Hunt. Not many feral dogs to speak of around us.
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Badace52
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In reply to Apache • 4:24p, 2/5/20
AG
Panther and mountain lion are synonyms.
CM
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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Apache
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In reply to Badace52 • 4:33p, 2/5/20
AG
Panthers are black
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Badace52
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In reply to Apache • 4:38p, 2/5/20
AG
There are no black "panthers" panther is a name for mountain lion. Black panthers refer colloquially to melanistic specimens of the Jaguar and Leopard. The former of which used to live in extreme southern Texas but no melanistic specimens have ever been documented here even before the species was extirpated from our state.
CM
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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FrontPorchAg
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4:41p, 2/5/20
My understanding is the location of the kill matters. If it's out in the open, it's likely coyotes. If it's been dragged into a ditch, under tree etc, it's mountain lion.
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others
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TacosaurusRex
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4:56p, 2/5/20
I don't want to speak for Ursus, or put words in his mouth, but didn't he bring up one time that when bones are chewed or gnawed it's pretty indicative of a yote? Something about a cat's teeth? Hopefully he'll be along to correct me soon and give his thoughts on your situation.
"If you are reading this, I have passed on from this world — not as big a deal for you as it was for me."
T. Boone Pickens
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MouthBQ98
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In reply to TacosaurusRex • 5:30p, 2/5/20
AG
Feline molars are built for slicing, not crushing. Canine molars are built for both. Cats will tend to tear or gnaw the meat off prey, but with the exception of huge cats and smaller prey, pretty much leave the bones alone. Canine jaws are evolved for getting at marrow.
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MouthBQ98
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5:33p, 2/5/20
AG
Cats do not like meat more than a few days dead at most, and they tend to kill and then conceal their prey. Canines eat it where it falls unless they carry bits back to a den.
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ursusguy
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6:03p, 2/5/20
AG
Y'all remember the gnawing issue well. One trick is to look at the first ribs (the first ones near the abdomen). If they are gone, canine, if they are simply stripped, feline.

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FancyKetchup14
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In reply to Badace52 • 6:40p, 2/5/20
AG
Badace52 said:
There are no black "panthers" panther is a name for mountain lion. Black panthers refer colloquially to melanistic specimens of the Jaguar and Leopard. The former of which used to live in extreme southern Texas but no melanistic specimens have ever been documented here even before the species was extirpated from our state.
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Layne Staley
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7:10p, 2/5/20
AG
Only black panthers eat the rear end first. Must be.
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raidernarizona
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7:19p, 2/5/20







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raidernarizona
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7:23p, 2/5/20
I got home after dark so I wasn't able to look around kill site. Carcass has already been disposed of. If it's in dumpster, I'll go take a look tomorrow. Femur bone looks pretty clean to me on that one photo. As you can see, it was left right out in the middle of field under the stars. Would a cat only do this if he was scared off the kill for some reason?

What do you guys think?
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agsalaska
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In reply to raidernarizona • 7:23p, 2/5/20
AG
Coyote
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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raidernarizona
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7:43p, 2/5/20
So a cat would have left all of those missing ribs in place? And just cleaned the meat off of them?
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SteveBott
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In reply to raidernarizona • 7:49p, 2/5/20
AG
See ursus reply above on ribs
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raidernarizona
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In reply to SteveBott • 7:51p, 2/5/20
Whoops, glanced over that. Thanks! I was skeptical, Thanks for the confirmation
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fullback44
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10:42p, 2/5/20
AG
Has to be a chupecabra... I can envision the Chupe eating on those ribs
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FC12
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10:55p, 2/5/20
White Walkers did it.
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BradMtn346
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11:51p, 2/5/20
I see a lot of both, and this is coyote. An immature lion might make a mess of the kill, but will hide and guard the carcass. The only time I have seen a lion leave a carcass in the open was an elk kill. She still drug it away from my cameras twice. Thread on here somewhere with the pictures.
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JeremiahJohnson
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In reply to Badace52 • 1:14a, 2/6/20
AG
Badace52 said:
There are no black "panthers" panther is a name for mountain lion. Black panthers refer colloquially to melanistic specimens of the Jaguar and Leopard. The former of which used to live in extreme southern Texas but no melanistic specimens have ever been documented here even before the species was extirpated from our state.


They haven't ? My dad and I saw one in Red River County.
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Apache
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In reply to JeremiahJohnson • 6:27a, 2/6/20
AG
Quote:
They haven't ? My dad and I saw one in Red River County.

Boom. Clear cut evidence.
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agsalaska
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In reply to JeremiahJohnson • 7:03a, 2/6/20
AG
aggie1819 said:
Badace52 said:
There are no black "panthers" panther is a name for mountain lion. Black panthers refer colloquially to melanistic specimens of the Jaguar and Leopard. The former of which used to live in extreme southern Texas but no melanistic specimens have ever been documented here even before the species was extirpated from our state.


They haven't ? My dad and I saw one in Red River County.
Please, go on
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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Trinity Ag
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In reply to JeremiahJohnson • 7:17a, 2/6/20
S
aggie1819 said:
Badace52 said:
There are no black "panthers" panther is a name for mountain lion. Black panthers refer colloquially to melanistic specimens of the Jaguar and Leopard. The former of which used to live in extreme southern Texas but no melanistic specimens have ever been documented here even before the species was extirpated from our state.


They haven't ? My dad and I saw one in Red River County.
He was passed out at the 31 Flavors
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JeremiahJohnson
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In reply to agsalaska • 7:48a, 2/6/20
AG
agsalaska said:
aggie1819 said:
Badace52 said:
There are no black "panthers" panther is a name for mountain lion. Black panthers refer colloquially to melanistic specimens of the Jaguar and Leopard. The former of which used to live in extreme southern Texas but no melanistic specimens have ever been documented here even before the species was extirpated from our state.


They haven't ? My dad and I saw one in Red River County.
Please, go on


Call me crazy all you want. My dad and I were hunting in a deer stand together just south of the Red River near Clarksville. A large black cat walked out at 75 yards. He was as tall as a mature deer with a long tail. It looked like same animal as the black jaguar we see in the zoo. We both watched it with our Binos for a good 15 seconds as it crossed down a fire break. It was plain as day. Of course I wanted to shoot it but we just watched. There is zero doubt in my either of our minds what we saw. There are lots of black cat sightings in east Texas. I wish I would have pulled the trigger because no one believed us.
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agsalaska
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In reply to JeremiahJohnson • 7:56a, 2/6/20
AG
aggie1819 said:
agsalaska said:
aggie1819 said:
Badace52 said:
There are no black "panthers" panther is a name for mountain lion. Black panthers refer colloquially to melanistic specimens of the Jaguar and Leopard. The former of which used to live in extreme southern Texas but no melanistic specimens have ever been documented here even before the species was extirpated from our state.


They haven't ? My dad and I saw one in Red River County.
Please, go on


Call me crazy all you want. My dad and I were hunting in a deer stand together just south of the Red River near Clarksville. A large black cat walked out at 75 yards. He was as tall as a mature deer with a long tail. It looked like same animal as the black jaguar we see in the zoo. We both watched it with our Binos for a good 15 seconds as it crossed down a fire break. It was plain as day. Of course I wanted to shoot it but we just watched. There is zero doubt in my either of our minds what we saw. There are lots of black cat sightings in east Texas. I wish I would have pulled the trigger because no one believed us.
So, it is OK to call you crazy?
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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JeremiahJohnson
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In reply to agsalaska • 8:30a, 2/6/20
AG
Haha that's fine. I don't know you. It really happened. Chose to believe it or not. They exist.
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Badace52
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In reply to JeremiahJohnson • 8:59a, 2/6/20
AG
Similar accounts happen all over the world all the time... frequently in areas that make no sense at all. Many, many happen in the United Kingdom. There has never been any verifiable evidence to corroborate any of these accounts. Most are attributed to large black dogs or shadow effect.
CM
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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JeremiahJohnson
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9:05a, 2/6/20
AG
When its day time in an open area, that close, there is no denying it was a mountain lion sized black cat. I am 100% confident that is what it was. So is my dad.

I have seen them in the zoo. A dog looks nothing like a mountain lion. Maybe it is a genetic abnormality in a cougar or an escaped pet, I don't know, but it was there.
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12f Mane
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9:19a, 2/6/20
AG
100 of accounts of "black" mountain lions and... zero photographic evidence. Ever. Seems a little suspect.
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12f Mane
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9:20a, 2/6/20
AG
Additionally I don't believe melanism has ever been recorded in mountain lions.
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