what do you do for a living?Mas89 said:
The real catastrophic failure is our local, state, and national politicians on the take who are letting these pipeline companies devalue and take private property rights from landowners who do not want to be impacted. Get a rope.
The roads they destroyed were asphalt/ chip seal before the construction started.
This industry is famous for greasing all the politicians to get what they want- billions in profit by stealing other people's land.
42" gas line questions
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177 Replies |
Last: 4 yr ago by ttha_aggie_09
I'm going to call BS on the 3000' blast radius. A square mile worth of total devastation, and everything dead within 6/10 of a mile???
Hell, the Hiroshima bomb only had a 5000' blast radius.
Hell, the Hiroshima bomb only had a 5000' blast radius.
CanyonAg77 said:
I'm going to call BS on the 3000' blast radius. A square mile worth of total devastation, and everything dead within 6/10 of a mile???
Hell, the Hiroshima bomb only had a 5000' blast radius.
I'm not sure there was a single thing other than the diameter of the line close to correct in the OP.
Pipeline is API 1104 almost exclusive on long distance.
Mainline is autoweld and AUT for mainline non destructive testing. This is relevant bc it will likely have a very low repair rate and non existent cut out rate. 90+ percent of new-ish pipeline failure comes from repairs.
Tie in and critical crossing are stick rod. these will be radiographed using gamma source and film.
Most importantly - the contractor building that portion is top notch.
I'll have 25-30 people on it and I'll let you know if we let the contractor bury anything you wouldn't like.
Mainline is autoweld and AUT for mainline non destructive testing. This is relevant bc it will likely have a very low repair rate and non existent cut out rate. 90+ percent of new-ish pipeline failure comes from repairs.
Tie in and critical crossing are stick rod. these will be radiographed using gamma source and film.
Most importantly - the contractor building that portion is top notch.
I'll have 25-30 people on it and I'll let you know if we let the contractor bury anything you wouldn't like.
Also - only explosion I've been around was on LXP in WV. Dozer doing slip work ran over a Tie-in with no matting.
It was a very nasty hill. The terrain in your area is easy compared to WV and the rock will keep it solid.
It was a very nasty hill. The terrain in your area is easy compared to WV and the rock will keep it solid.
Excellent summary
I wonder how high a DeWalt drill with a 1/2" bit would go when it tapped into a gas line with a pressure of #14,400?
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Overreactions...
#FJB
NGL = natural gas liquids (butane, propane, ethane)
LNG = Liquid Natural Gas (liquefying natural gas for transport across the water)
LNG = Liquid Natural Gas (liquefying natural gas for transport across the water)
to expand, LNG is specifically liquefying CH4 methane with very little ethane.ChemEAg08 said:
NGL = natural gas liquids (butane, propane, ethane)
LNG = Liquid Natural Gas (liquefying natural gas for transport across the water)
https://www.cbs7.com/content/news/Officials-responding-to-major-fire-east-of-Midland-489779741.html
I remember this one because it was 15 miles north of where I live. There was another in the pasture to the south of us that never made the news. It does happen.
Edit:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mrt.com/news/amp/Report-Explosion-that-killed-girl-3-caused-by-13223990.php
I remembered a second
I remember this one because it was 15 miles north of where I live. There was another in the pasture to the south of us that never made the news. It does happen.
Edit:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mrt.com/news/amp/Report-Explosion-that-killed-girl-3-caused-by-13223990.php
I remembered a second
evestor1 said:
Pipeline is API 1104 almost exclusive on long distance.
Mainline is autoweld and AUT for mainline non destructive testing. This is relevant bc it will likely have a very low repair rate and non existent cut out rate. 90+ percent of new-ish pipeline failure comes from repairs.
Tie in and critical crossing are stick rod. these will be radiographed using gamma source and film.
Most importantly - the contractor building that portion is top notch.
I'll have 25-30 people on it and I'll let you know if we let the contractor bury anything you wouldn't like.
Random question... Why can't pipelines be threaded to save money on welding?
Mas89 said:
The rural county roads they are using to access the new line have been torn up bad. The large Trackhoe and dozers they haul on the roads weigh close to 180,000 pounds including the heavy haul rigs and the asphalt/ gravel road base has been crushed and reduced to muddy roads with terrible holes.
I wish they would have to only access the project off state owned roads. Mat the rest of the route.
To be fair, almost every large construction project in an area will likely cause damage to county roads. Usually the companies need road use agreements for these projects, and in them they agree to repair the roads AFTER everything is done. No sense in spending money to repair it today just to re damage it tomorrow.
Unfortunately, most large projects like this typically gather opposition makes emotional arguments. That's what sounds like many of the statements the OP has referred to.
Threading a 42" line would not be cheaper than welding, nor would it be safer and would be much harder to ensure its gas tight
The regulated line ruptured do to 3rd party damage, one of the biggest threats to a pipeline. Older lines may lack adequate depth of cover and/or ROW markers. Others are in areas with frequent construction and a lot of people fail to do a one call (811). Hard to prevent some of those incidents and some are exclusively the fault of a 3rd party.WW99 said:
https://www.cbs7.com/content/news/Officials-responding-to-major-fire-east-of-Midland-489779741.html
I remember this one because it was 15 miles north of where I live. There was another in the pasture to the south of us that never made the news. It does happen.
Edit:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mrt.com/news/amp/Report-Explosion-that-killed-girl-3-caused-by-13223990.php
I remembered a second
The targa line in your article is intriguing... I'm not specifically aware of the incident but am also not aware of any regulated pipelines they operate in W TX. Based on that, I would assume this is a gathering line, that's not regulated and lower pressure. I highly doubt any leak detection equipment was utilized on that line.
The line in the OPs question will not have to worry about depth of cover, leak detection and 3rd party damage (for the short term). Pipeline failures are terrible but most pipelines are very safe.
The article does state that it was a 10" gathering line. So that's a completely different ballgame than a 42" carrier line. It was also un-odorized gas. So again, different ballgame.
Edit to add the comments above are about the second link about the targa pipeline incident.
Edit to add the comments above are about the second link about the targa pipeline incident.
ttha_aggie_09 said:Maybe on a small gathering, flow, or trunk line that is not regulated by the state/PHMSA. A 42" pipeline will be regulated and this will not be an issue.Bradley.Kohr.II said:
according to rumor, illegal gas line taps were pretty common in S TX
You're making great points and I appreciate your clarifications here. A 42 inch gas line however may not be regulated if, and a very big if, that 42 gas line meets the definition of an RP80 gas gathering line that does not contain commingled gas AND is located in a Class 1 location. Texas might have it's own rules regarding jurisdictionality of a class 1 gas line (Ohio does under Senate Bill 315). I would venture to guess that a 42 inch gas line is likely a transmission line that would fall under the 192 regs and thus also subject to 192.150 and Subpart O
CanyonAg77 said:
I'm going to call BS on the 3000' blast radius. A square mile worth of total devastation, and everything dead within 6/10 of a mile???
Hell, the Hiroshima bomb only had a 5000' blast radius.
Agreed!! 1440 on a 42 inch line wont exceed a radius of about 1150 or so. I'm not an engineer so i dont the exact number (will also need the wall thickness and ANSI rating)
ttha_aggie_09 said:
If people only knew how many pipelines were around... if live in Houston you're probably less than a mile from a major pipeline. If you live on or near a golf course, I can almost guarantee it.
As someone mentioned above, the worst part about a pipeline this size is the construction and soil displacement for installation. Once it is installed and operational, I wouldn't worry about it. KM has a very robust pipeline Integrity group and Rich doesn't want to be on the news for hurting anyone or damaging property. It's not good for business.
This. Go to NPMS.GOV and check out the lines in your county. If it wasnt for pipelines, your standard of living would be stuck in the 1920s.
They modified the regs this year to specifically target large diameter "gathering" gas lines that were operating at near transmission pipeline pressure. It was added under 192, but I cannot recall the exact section.
That article would not open on my phone without playing the stupid ad and I couldn't get it to pause. I just skimmed the first paragraph and it didn't trigger my memory of recent pipeline failures.
AgLA06 said:SanAntoneAg said:
It's all fun and games until the inevitable happens.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/news/2019/01/mexico-pipeline-explosion-graphic-videos/amp/
You literally had to go back almost 20 years to find an in example from Mexico of all places.
You couldn't find a more recent cluster F#&@ in Uzbekistan or Venezuela to make your point of the "inevitable" common catastrophic gas line accidents in highly regulated, first world countries?
Jesus Christ, lighten up, Frances. I wasn't making a point. I was responding to:
Bradley.Kohr.II 1:12p
according to rumor, illegal gas line taps were pretty common in S TX
I suppose the sarcasm went right over your head.
And going back 20 years? The link I posted was from last year.
Gig 'em! '90
No crap... come down to the Eagleford... if they aren't putting in a new pipeline every few weeks then something is wrong... we have some big MoFos crossing our property.. besides the installation,,they pose little to no problems if there are no leaks... a few have already blown up here in there but no one has been hurt and if it happens it out in the middle of no where... one that did blow was about 1 mile from my buddies house on his land .. he was asleep, heard it, looked out the front door and called the pipeline company (it was at a LNG knock station) .. he drove down there, looked around (huge flame shooting up into the sky) told them to call him if his cattle were in any danger and went back to bed.ChemEAg08 said:
Overreactions...
They can be dangerous but you rarely hear of any property owner getting hurt... **** the cows don't even get hurt.
Conclusion: Take the money and enjoy life ( my buddy has made over $2 million just on pipelines)
ttha_aggie_09 said:
They modified the regs this year to specifically target large diameter "gathering" gas lines that were operating at near transmission pipeline pressure. It was added under 192, but I cannot recall the exact section.
I thought that part wasnt phased in this round of the mega rule. If it was in this part then operators have until July 1, I believe.
I'm an engineer for a company that owns and operates thousands of miles of natural gas pipelines. I do not work for KM. Here are my comments after reading this thread
1. The MAOP will almost certainly be 1440 psi as that is the highest pressure 600CL flanges can be rated to
2. This pipeline will be flowing sales quality gas. That means the gas will consist almost entirely of pure methane, have very little water, and have very little H2S. This discourages it from corroding inside out.
3. The pipeline will have cathodic protection on it. This means instead of pipe wall loss, a sacrificial ground bed will be consumed instead. The pipeline will be a voltaic cell. The pipeline coating insulates the pipe wall and prevents this process from shorting to ground. They will be monitoring the voltage drop across the pipeline and will know if they have coating issues.
4. This will be a DOT regulated line. They will have to run a smart tool through the line every 5 years. This tool will identify and locate any anomalies in the pipe wall. They will then have to repair any areas of wall loss they find.
5. KM is building this pipeline in the wrong spot, so why are they building it here? Well it has to do with how these multi-billion dollar projects are funded. There is only so much gas available to justify this 42" pipeline and multiple companies want to be the one to build it. They don't all just build a pipeline, try to finish first, and hope producers give them gas. They sign up producers way before they ever begin construction. The company that can build the pipeline for less can sign up producers by offering them lower fees. So KM thinks they can save money by building through the hill country. The risk is that wealthy pissed off landowners will delay their project, thus pissing off producers and costing them on this deal and future deals. Personally, I doubt it works out for them.
1. The MAOP will almost certainly be 1440 psi as that is the highest pressure 600CL flanges can be rated to
2. This pipeline will be flowing sales quality gas. That means the gas will consist almost entirely of pure methane, have very little water, and have very little H2S. This discourages it from corroding inside out.
3. The pipeline will have cathodic protection on it. This means instead of pipe wall loss, a sacrificial ground bed will be consumed instead. The pipeline will be a voltaic cell. The pipeline coating insulates the pipe wall and prevents this process from shorting to ground. They will be monitoring the voltage drop across the pipeline and will know if they have coating issues.
4. This will be a DOT regulated line. They will have to run a smart tool through the line every 5 years. This tool will identify and locate any anomalies in the pipe wall. They will then have to repair any areas of wall loss they find.
5. KM is building this pipeline in the wrong spot, so why are they building it here? Well it has to do with how these multi-billion dollar projects are funded. There is only so much gas available to justify this 42" pipeline and multiple companies want to be the one to build it. They don't all just build a pipeline, try to finish first, and hope producers give them gas. They sign up producers way before they ever begin construction. The company that can build the pipeline for less can sign up producers by offering them lower fees. So KM thinks they can save money by building through the hill country. The risk is that wealthy pissed off landowners will delay their project, thus pissing off producers and costing them on this deal and future deals. Personally, I doubt it works out for them.
I am very familiar with a number of the topics discussed in this thread and like others I can confirm most of OP is greatly exaggerated. That said, the vast majority of my experience is the northeast. Since 2016 we've have 4 major pipe ruptures, which is concerning. However most of those were do shearing caused by slippage as they went through Appalachian mountains or human error. The first fatality or even injury occurred this past summer on a Texas Eastern 36" line in KY. It was old and the cause hasn't been released. The Feds (DOT and PHMSA) took over. If anything the regulations are moving more stringent for pipes and especially older ones.
In summary these events are extremely rare and not something I'd be worried about. I'm about to build a house right between to ROWs in Washington Co.
In summary these events are extremely rare and not something I'd be worried about. I'm about to build a house right between to ROWs in Washington Co.
7/1/2020 is the mega rule implementation date but the large diameter gas gathering issue was specifically addressed (I believe) 1/1/2020. If I didn't feel like crap I would find the specific regs.
Geo hazards are on everyone's radar right now due to some of those failures. You're exactly right about the industry moving into more regulations... mostly for the better.
ttha_aggie_09 said:
7/1/2020 is the mega rule implementation date but the large diameter gas gathering issue was specifically addressed (I believe) 1/1/2020. If I didn't feel like crap I would find the specific regs.
I was thinking of 192.9 regarding gas gathering regs but since they're specifically exempted from the IMP rules, the new MCA definition doesnt apply. I cant remember seeing pipe diameter being a necessary element for jurisdictionality on a gas gathering line. I could be mistaken, there's so much in this dang rule.
All this aside, I love this thread. Seems like theres a bunch of us in the industry. We should get together and conference or at the very least join a group on linked in. The brain power here for pipelines can be valuable.
Spot on!
Although, gas lines are on a 7 year inspection interval not 5 like liquids.
Although, gas lines are on a 7 year inspection interval not 5 like liquids.
And that debate ought to center around adequate compensation to property owners who are forced to endure these "utilities" across their properties for some ONE-TIME payment at so-called MARKET value. This practice needs to be reformed and effected property owners need to be more fully compensated, beginning with an annual fee/royalty for as long as the utility (pipeline/powerline) remains. This fee should be passed onto and borne by the consumers/public who benefit directly from the utilities existence.wessimo said:
Correct, this pipe will be feeding LNG export projects.
As far as societal benefit, the project will support a lot of economic activity (jobs) and allow the USA to expand geopolitical power as an energy exporter. I guess it is a matter of debate whether private land should be taken for that purpose.
PFG is that you?Rexter said:SanAntoneAg said:
FIt's all fun and games until the inevitable happens.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/news/2019/01/mexico-pipeline-explosion-graphic-videos/amp/
Damn.....That's a pretty wild video. I've never seen real humans running around while on fire.......just cats.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like your opinion man!
Bradley.Kohr.II said:
I do not know what an NGL is, but I was told that it was for the LNG port in Houston.
Part of the issue, is they are being jackasses - rather than do a 2 or 3 degree deflection, they are running it 80' from one ladies jacuzzi, and 200' from her front door.
And a big part of it, is lots of folks do not understand why they need a new easement, instead of using one of the existing ones.
And the whole, "stealing property for no societal benefit" part
I have a large diameter natgas line running about 125' from,my front door.
Havent died yet.
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