I've been out of the cotton business for decades, but I still like the machinery. I saw one of these north of Kress, Texas, the other day. Interesting little machine. Weighs 30,000 pounds, costs nearly $120,000, but an interesting concept.

http://www.crustbuster.com/modulating-boll-buggy

The round baler strippers are taking over up here.

I probably ought to get back into cotton.

The industry may be headed there, but there is still ALOT of paid for module builders out there. Round will become the new norm, but it will take years for the conversion.

I'm in agriculture technology and the adoption rate is still fairly low. You cannot imagine the number of folks who still "water like dad did" even when there is documented evidence that there is money saving methods that would drastically improved the bottom line.

They'll adopt the balers quicker than you think. From 2012- today on the upper gulf coast, the balers went from a novelty that a few guys had to being the dominant picker, gin yards around here were at least 75% round bales this year. I had a buddy this year buy 2 Case basket pickers, the numbers looked much better than balers on paper and he felt that with a good ground crew he could pick fast enough to not need a baler. He ended up hiring a custom crew with balers to help ahead of the hurricane and they out-picked him 3 to 1. He's trading both in now towards balers.

Case ExpressModule was a major failure, and this is basically the same concept. Once the mini modules were made they couldn't be moved without a truck, so you had to dead head to line them up. The modules were not packed as tightly and caused a lot of losses. If I recall correctly they also had a lot of issues with fires.

Round is the way to go if looking for an alternative to traditional modules. Both have pros and cons, but outside those options the drawbacks are tremendously greater than the benefits.

Consider the secondary market too. Where are you going to resell that piece of equipment when the time comes?

Centerpole90 said:

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God Bless Dr. Lambert Wilkes, Texas A&M, and Cotton Incorporated for revolutionizing cotton handling. I'm glad I got to live in an age where I got to see that for myself - industry, Extension, and academia's combined effort creating a paradigm shift in the industry and just handing it over. Dr. Wilkes didn't become a multimillionaire on the fruits of his creation - but he left this world with the respect of every cotton grower who's climbed into a trailer and pulled cotton to the gin 2, 3, 5 bales at a time.

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Amen. Had the distinct privilege of working for Wilkes during my time at A&M...brilliant mind and all around good man. A fitting tribute:

Pardon my ignorance, I do not know very much about the cotton business at all. The first time I was ever in a cotton patch, I was horse back taking a squad of convicts out to pick it. As an aside, 300+ convicts picking cotton is an awesome site.

My question is, what is the advantage of a round bale over square? Also, I was told when I worked for the state that there was a law that all cotton had to be in by 1, November, although that could have been policy, not law. Any idea on that one?

I think Case was fighting a loosing battle from the start with the Module Express. The Modulating Boll Buggy is an interesting concept because it can take 6 basket dumps from a stripper and have enough cotton on board to make 2 modules. But how do you overcome the time it takes to head to the turn row to dump the module while you still need to collect cotton from the strippers that are continuing to run?

I just wonder how much longer Case can justify staying in the cotton segment. I've worked on plenty of JD 6-row pickers (JD 9976), and all I've ever heard about Case pickers are they are a PIA to work on because the row units don't move much to be able to access them. Time will tell I suppose.

Our relatives on the South Plains started using module builders in the late 70s, but we were the first at our Hale County gin to have one, and we started in 1981. Also bought one of the first Deere 7440 strippers, serial number 3 (1003) Lots of folks came by to watch. By the next year, there were a whole lot more, and trailers had almost completely disappeared in just a few years.

Round bakers combined the process of harvesting and moduling cotton all on the harvester itself. tjis eliminated some equipment and a lot of labor, but it comes at a tremendous up front cost and the ongoing expense of plastic wrap for the round modules.

https://instagr.am/p/BXbztZCgfEh

The round modules are smaller and must be handled in the field, organized is a better term, so they can be picked up and transported. They are denser than conventional modules and they are better protected. So as long as they aren't standing in water round modules are considered more weather resistant than conventional. Keep in mind that ALLLLLLLLLLLL OF THIS is preferable to the cotton trailer or wagon of Canyon's and my youth.

Yes on the cotton destruction date. Every growing region has a mandatory destruction date for the purpose of managing the Cotton Boll Weevil. Then I'll weevil is a notorious and invasive peat and has a tendency to 'overwinter' in hostable food sources - namely cotton. As part of the cooperative Boll Weevil Eradication effort growers pay an assessment per acre for monitoring and treatment of boll weevils and part of that process includes a mandatory planting and destruction deadlines. These are intended to eliminate late volunteer cotton stalks that wil host weevils through the winter.

Quote:

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I was told when I worked for the state that there was a law that all cotton had to be in by 1, November, although that could have been policy, not law. Any idea on that one?

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Sounds like policy, not law. Never heard of a required harvest date.

However, and maybe some South Texas guys will chime in, but I seem to recall that there is a problem with a pest called the pink bollworm. To control it, you need to shred the cotton stalks where they overwinter, and plow them under. This needs to be done early in winter, so they have less chance to survive the winter.

I think some South Texas counties thus have required dates by which cotton must be shredded and plowed.


As far as the convicts picking cotton, is there a point to it? I assume it's just busy work and because you don't trust them with machinery.

SAWgunner said:

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My question is, what is the advantage of a round bale over square? Also, I was told when I worked for the state that there was a law that all cotton had to be in by 1, November, although that could have been policy, not law. Any idea on that one?

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Cost savings by reducing your labor force. In a traditional module builder you have to have someone running the picker/stripper and several people running the module builder. In the round baler, you just have the picker and one person running a tractor with forks to pick up the round bale, that is it.

No actual law in Texas stating cotton has to be picked by a certain deadline, it might have had something to do with crop insurance though. Plenty of cotton still in the field south of Dallas still and a lot thats been picked but not transported to the gin yet.

I work with a lot of producers in central Texas and within the last 5 years there has been a big shift to round bales. Scarmardo gin in the Brazos Bottom said they were greater than 60% round bales this year whereas in 2014 they were probably 25-30%. Interesting video though.

From what I have heard and judging by the video, the modulating buggy doesn't really allow the farmer to cover more acres in a days time you still have to get out and tarp it, have it lined up at the end for the trucks, and still have to wait for the module to finish being formed. Outside of saving on equipment, labor, and wrap there isnt much to be gained.

Yes the round balers are crazy expensive and the wrap is crazy expensive. But it comes with about a 20% increase in acres a day and you still save on labor. Plus the resale market is huge. Right now I don't see a better alternative. I would stay with a traditional builder or get a round baler or hire it out.

Centerpole90 said:

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Round bakers combined the process of harvesting and moduling cotton all on the harvester itself. tjis eliminated some equipment and a lot of labor, but it comes at a tremendous up front cost and the ongoing expense of plastic wrap for the round modules.

https://instagr.am/p/BXbztZCgfEh

The round modules are smaller and must be handled in the field, organized is a better term, so they can be picked up and transported. They are denser than conventional modules and they are better protected. So as long as they aren't standing in water round modules are considered more weather resistant than conventional. Keep in mind that ALLLLLLLLLLLL OF THIS is preferable to the cotton trailer or wagon of Canyon's and my youth.

Yes on the cotton destruction date. Every growing region has a mandatory destruction date for the purpose of managing the Cotton Boll Weevil. Then I'll weevil is a notorious and invasive peat and has a tendency to 'overwinter' in hostable food sources - namely cotton. As part of the cooperative Boll Weevil Eradication effort growers pay an assessment per acre for monitoring and treatment of boll weevils and part of that process includes a mandatory planting and destruction deadlines. These are intended to eliminate late volunteer cotton stalks that wil host weevils through the winter.

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Do these round bales go from the field to the local gin ... straight to the compressor or ???

It's been many, many years since I drove an unairconditioned picker in South Texas.

Dates apply in areas warm enough for overwintering.

They still have to be ginned. Most strippers and pickers now will extract burrs, but you still need to remove seeds and pack into standard bales.

One thing that has changed since you and I were young is that compresses don't compress anymore. The presses at the gin are now capable of squeezing the bales of cotton to the same level that used to take a compress. so while they are still called compresses, they are just warehouses.

Caveat: At least I think so. Are there any operating compresses any more?

No I don't think there's any active compressing. The gin UD bale is standard.

https://instagr.am/p/BZj_xPcAyFG

We only ever needed one guy for running one module builder, usually us kids. You also have to factor in the cost of your bailing machine running twice the diesel (24 gallons) an hour than a conventional basket machine (12 gallons). 24 gallons times $2.50 is $60 an hour. 12 gallons plus 6ish gallons an hour for the module tractor times $2.50 is $45 plus you $8-10 dollars an hour for labor only comes to $55. Then factor in the cost of the tarp for each round bale vs the the tarp for the conventional module you get for free at the gin and you've got a more expensive machine. What is does save you is the headache of yelling at to seven different guys in spanish who aren't on the same page as you when it comes to setting the module builder in the right location for easy stop and go access.

I worked for Texas Boll Weevil Eradication Inc, while a student at A&M and still know nothing about cotton. I did get pretty good at putting weevil counts into the maps for the crop dusters GPS though.

I've worked with cotton from a field south of La Feria on the Rio Grande, to a field that borders the Oklahoma Panhandle, and everywhere in between. Texas is not a cotton growing state. Texas is 7 or 8 cotton growing states.

In the south there are mandatory crop destruct dates. Up here, I've seen it snow before the cotton is stripped, and harvest get finished in March.

In the RGV we had cotton being ginned by July 4th. Up here, we haven't started blooming yet by July 4th.

In the big flat fields up here, I had 1 farmer tell me that each stripper baler saved him 4 tractors, 2 boll buggies, and 2 module builders, and 6 hired hands.

My guess is, within 5 years we will not see a module, and will be 100% round.

I thought of that, too. This buggy weighs 30,000 pounds, plus 20,000 of tractor, and 10,000 of cotton...

A CP690 weighs about 70k all up and wet and leaves tracks in 8 of every 11 middles.

I've been driving through southeast Virginia this morning and up 13 through the Eastern Shore. About 75% has been picked. For the three gins I've passed, 75% of the yard space has been rolls. I've only seen one module builder in the field.

In the parts of the Mississippi Hill Country and Alabama Black Belt that I frequent rolls:modules is probably 50:50 this year.

Salesman at the John Deere in Spearman has a waiting list with 21 names on it for stripper balers next year (at $750,000 each). John Deere is going to send them 12.

This is the scenario across the cotton belt. I heard comparable numbers for AgPro that covers a bunch of the coastal bend and now the RGV.

Centerpole90 said:

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A CP690 weighs about 70k all up and wet and leaves tracks in 8 of every 11 middles.

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I wonder what the weight distribution is on those things.



I do know that in South Texas dryland cotton, compaction is a big deal. Farmer use the winter to re-hydrate the soil and with increased compaction you will lose water retention.

Even with irrigated, compaction can is a cost factor for sure.

The weight is staggering, even with duals. If the ground is wet when you pick you can damn sure tell it when you plow - it's bad enough when it's dry, but on wet ground it's as bad as it will get. Few farm processes will rival it for weight int the field.. I started thinking about that after I typed it so went and looked. Let's talk about what CP690 or 7760 CAN possibly weight in the field....

CP690 with 6 heads per JD website: 66,000
400 gal water 8*400=3,200
380 gal diesel 7*380=2,600
70 gal grease I don't know for sure 70*12? 11? =750

so 72,500? Then the wrap. Each roll weighs about 200# the machine has capability to carry 5 cartridges. Another 1,000 to go to work. call it 73k

Go pick your first round module. 5,500 Wrap it, and kick it on the bale handler.
Keep picking and lets say you get to the wrapping stage on that one before the machine makes you drop the first one. Another 5,500

If we stop right there the total machine weight would be in the neighborhood of 84,000 and sitting on the equivalent contact area as most farm tractors: duals plus the steering tires. That's a lot of ground compaction - it's 4k over the legal gross weight of a semi on the road w/o an overweight permit. Even a monster 1,000 bu grain cart has a payload of 56,000 and usually is on some huge flotation tires, duals, or tracks of its own and a portion of the weight is distributed to the tractor.

Depends on price and mood.

This is such a racist thread... staph please delete!