Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

what do you want to do? I'm assuming field imaging for farmers?

If so I would recommend dropping your card off at gins and talking to them. Cotton farmers congregate at gins at least a few times a year and some show up every day so if you want a hub where potential customers are at that's the place to be.

I already do that.


I'm talking about renting land and start-up cotton farming.

My FIL started farming cotton about 10 years ago after he retired. Grew up on a farm, was an IT guy for his career, but now has about 1000 acres near Abilene that he does a combo of raising cattle and farming cotton. Great guy and he's made a lot of friends out there.

Anyway, when we were out there last month, we had lunch with 5-6 of his fellow local farmers. One of them said "The rest of us are too dumb to stop farming cotton, and I don't even know how to describe someone that decided to start" - referring to my FIL. Everyone got a pretty good laugh.

You say he grew up on a farm so when he started farming in his later years was it on land and with equipment that was passed down to him? That's not overly unusual, but for someone to start with absolutely nothing and have to buy all kinds of equipment and land would be highly unusual, if not impossible to do with today's cost of doing business & commodity prices.

Not to mention cotton is practically the most expensive row crop to grow over many of the others. Not a lot of banks willing to loan out big bucks to someone who's never done any of it before.

I've worked for AgriLife for the last 3 years in South Texas.

Dry-land, Irrigated, Onions, Citrus, Research....seen and learned a lot.

I'm not trying to go long to begin with. Even with poor soils, using drones I can make management decisions pretty easy and pick and choose my strategies for a profitable crop.


I am talking about how to approach the equipment issue. A farmer down the road? Just invest on a neighboring crop strategy.

Just trying to figure out how to get in, slowly.

Definitely not talking about purchasing the equipment.

It's a bit of a combo, but he mostly purchased what he's farming. He grew up in Kansas, but his wife did inherit some property near Abilene. They're using a portion of it for the cattle, but he bought quite a bit of additional property which makes up most of what he's cotton farming. The farm he grew up on was sold long ago.

On the equipment, he bought it all. However, between growing up on the farm + being a very mechanical gearhead that always had a shop in the back and some sort of car/truck restoration going on, he acquired his equipment by buying old (and sometimes non-functioning) and then fixing it up. He grew up an Allis Chalmers kid, so most of his stuff was bought by being willing to travel to get something old and orange, hauling it back to TX if need be, and then doing any needed maintenance. And not being afraid to take a risk on something old and cheap.

Make no mistake - it's not really been a money-making venture. More of a labor of love. He's doing better than break-even on-going, but yeah, still a sizeable investment went into it.

Challenge 1 is finding farm land to lease. Farmers can get pretty cut throat when new land becomes available.There was a Dennis Quaid movie called "At Any Price" (Decent Movie). He plays a big time corn farmer and would approach widows at their husbands funerals with offers to buy or lease his farming land. Not saying all farmers are like that but they arent making any new farming land...

Challenge 2. If you can find land then you need the equipment. Start by leasing a decent tractor. We were getting 180hp cases (used) for around $35/engine hour with an option to buy at the end of the lease from our local dealer. This will help keep equipment costs down so you can afford to buy basic tillage equipment. Stick to 8 row equipment, its cheaper and for just starting out with small acreage works fine. You will need disc, hipper, cultivator at a minimum. Last time i checked fastline, good used ones could be found for about $5k each. As far as other equipment, find oportunities to sub out when needed. Ex pay neighbor to plant, custom sprayer for pest/disease and then hire custom harvestors. This will keep your capital investment low

Challenge 3. Getting the capital to actually farm. Finding a bank or credit union that will finance you with basically no collateral.... Rent, Seed, Fertilzer, FUEL, Insurance you are looking at anywhere between $50-$80,000 dollars depending on how much land you pick up. Personally I wouldnt pick up more than 200 acres my first year if maintaining a regular weekday job. You say you work for agrilife, you can review the economist budgets yourself....https://agecoext.tamu.edu/files/2017/11/2018D11CottonLCB.pdf

This continues to be a most illuminating thread.

Lots of good info.

insulator_king said:

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This continues to be a most illuminating thread.

Lots of good info.

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Yeah. Sometimes threads get hijacked and go the wrong way. This has gone well.

I'm told Texas farm bureau insurance rates could possibly be crazy high. Our insurer which is a national carrier will be significantly lower than Texas FB I'm told. I heard today Texas FB had taken in close to a million in premiums put paid out $13,000,000 worth of fire claims. Was told incredibly higher premiums and deductibles for them next year.

scottimus said:

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I am talking about how to approach the equipment issue. A farmer down the road? Just invest on a neighboring crop strategy.

Just trying to figure out how to get in, slowly.

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So first off, I'm not trying to dissuade you but as a farmer with less than a decade as an owner there are some things that still open my eyes and realize how hard it is as a young producer. I also came from a farm family so I didn't have the same barriers to entry as others might have.

I'm not aiming this next part at you, just using pronouns to relate it.

1) If you came in and swiped land I was farming/had the potential to farm in the future, there is no way I would try to work with you. Most farmers in the area would see you as a threat, as this is their livelihood compared to a hobby at that moment for you, and your taking the most valuable commodity everyone needs to farm, land.

2) I got lucky in that a neighboring farmer's health wouldn't allow him to go on, and his son after a couple of years couldn't handle/didn't have the work ethic to run a small farm. The landowners(our area is mainly sharecropped) know us and came to us first, but that didn't stop one of the grandson's who I had grown up with from throwing fits, trying to snake the land from me, and in general being a Grade A a-hole about it.(He didn't farm at the time and never did growing up)

3) Being a new producer sucks. I farm to produce good crops, some are there to take advantage of crop insurance, etc. Last year, my dad and I split a 700 acre farm. For me, it was my first crop in a new county, and insurance prices were about double what they were in my home county. My dad has a 3-4 decade history in the county. The crop wasn't very good, as sometimes happens. My dad got a decent insurance check from the place, which allowed him to break-even and maybe make a little bit. I got nothing. So just realize that as far as a safety net goes, as a new producer, you almost don't have one.


Anyways, good luck if you can get in. And get ready for good times and some gutpunches.

I appreciate the words of wisdom. These conversations are right on par with typical Extension events.

I may be naive in thinking this, but how much precision agriculture tools are being used with yall's crops?

I know this thread is about the round bales, but I am curious about what gets you to that point.
That is why the equipment issue is a big deal for me.

The successful crops, that I know of, are using variable rate seeding, variable rate sprayers, and latest seed technology, even on dry land. They tell me, "The guys that don't, don't make it." And these are the guys buying their neighbor's land.

I came from Cameron County along the river, and there, they are increasing in registered Ag acres and clearing land for more farming and ranching. With all the rain recently, the resacas are full. I even had a nice Mexican widow offer me 100 acres that hadn't been touched since her husband passed away 10 years ago, her children gone, she just doesn't want to pay the taxes. I don't know if yall's Spanish would have been good enough to close the deal with her (just kidding). It was Rio Grande Bottom land too. There was some mesquite, but hey, labor is cheap in the Valley. I ended coming back up toe CS and didn't start then.

This year we will be 3D modeling cotton volume and comparing that to yield monitors in the stripper/picker.
(Along with all the other crap I already do)

I'll be flying Melons and Cotton on 2 week intervals for some guys this year.

SunrayAg said:

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scottimus said:

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Even with poor soils, using drones I can make management decisions pretty easy and pick and choose my strategies for a profitable crop.

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Please don't take this the wrong way. But if you honestly believe that statement, you should leave the farming to someone else.

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You got any bad land I can use?

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I came from Cameron County along the river, and there, they are increasing in registered Ag acres and clearing land for more farming and ranching. With all the rain recently, the resacas are full.

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Scott, where along the river or in Cameron County has there been an appreciable increase in Ag acreage since the 1960's or 70's? And I don't mean someone working on a 20 or 40 that was just a grown up pasture. The sparwl of Brownsville, pop up colonias/subdivisions along the river, hell, even the glacial pace of Harlingen's growth has done nothing but consume tillable land over the last 30 years.

As far as all the rain recently, where? It rained saturday but not nearly enough to replace the subsoil recharging rains missed when Harvey went north and sucked all the moisture out of the southern gulf for 60 days. In fact, most of Cameron and all but the western reaches of Willacy are hurting right now. Depending on where Saturday's rain fell it could certainly provide planting moisture, but the 2018 crop will rely completely on timely rain - because the subsoil in all the eastern RGV is dry. There won't be any pulling another rabbit out of the hat in 2018 like 2017 without April and May rain events.



Also, for future reference - resacas are charged by the irrigation districts to deliver surface irrigation water. They're full because in preparation for some pre-irrigating that may or may not take place after the front last weekend; but they are not drainage ditches. Thankfully Falcon is in good shape so there is irrigation water, but don't confuse seeing an irrigation canal full with 'wet' conditions.

Not trying to shoot you down, but if you want to raise cotton you have to have a pretty good handle on the moisture situation - and it's not exactly good right now.

Centerpole90 said:

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Also, for future reference - resacas are charged by the irrigation districts to deliver surface irrigation water. They're full because in preparation for some pre-irrigating that may or may not take place after the front last weekend; but they are not drainage ditches. Thankfully Falcon is in good shape so there is irrigation water, but don't confuse seeing an irrigation canal full with 'wet' conditions.

Not trying to shoot you down, but if you want to raise cotton you have to have a pretty good handle on the moisture situation - and it's not exactly good right now.

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I grew up swimming in those resacas, and have seen the lost cities of Falcon reservoir when the "lake" got low enough.

I thought most of the farmers, on this thread, would already know that the resacas and canals are literally down stream from Falcon.

I have gone through the Watershed Management, Remote Sensing, Wetland Delineation programs, and completed graduate level Hydrogeological courses prior to working at AgriLife.

I am not confused as to where the water comes from.

As far as predicting rain, I can't help you there.

On another note, a friend of mine is suing an irrigation district for keeping the canal too full and encroaching on his property killing a significant portion of his trees.

They responded with, "That water is gold"

Ill respond later with the farm acres increasing. That was from a presentation from Dr. Anciso down there and I need to navigate the USDA and TDA sites for the correct stats...

I also know where the water in resacas comes from. That's why I'm confused with your correlation of resacas being full to 'all the recent rain'; which there as been terribly little of.

According to the 2012 survey of Agriculture Cameron lost 40,000 of tillable land between 2007 & 2012. I'm not sure the 2017 figures are out yet, the survey is still on the desk.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0ahUKEwjMoafD3ofZAhUNSa0KHbDXApMQFgg2MAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.agcensus.usda.gov%2FPublications%2F2012%2FOnline_Resources%2FCounty_Profiles%2FTexas%2Fcp48061.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3cG6B7m2mUijamnjTX03Nq

I apologize, I meant "recently" in the context of over the last year with Falcon being full, then down stream being full as well. Like I said, some "irrigation canals" breaking their banks.


Even so, you took the map off of the lake monitoring page, no?

http://falcon.lakesonline.com/Level/

That being said, If you believe in the "Semi-Arid Sub Tropical" precipitation cycle...you should be worrying about too much rain coming up.

Resacas. The below ( from wikipedia) is what you are referring ?

How do the irrigation districts recharge them?
Note: this is a question, not a confrontation.
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A resaca is a type of oxbow lake that can be found in the southern half of Cameron County, Texas.[1] The resacas constitute former channels of the Rio Grande and are naturally cut off from the river, having no inlet or outlet.[2]

I did not take any information from lake levels. I acknowledged that Falcon was in good shape implying that there is adequate irrigation water reserves, however, that does nothing for the vast dryland acreage. In CAMERON County, rainfall has been sparse leaving all dryland acres in a lurch, and you would be hard pressed to get an irrigated farmer to say today 'things are fine' - as I understood you to mean by 'all the recent rains'.

ETA - I'll worry about more rain when it comes. one disaster at a time please.

@ It'sA&I -

That definition would better read 'natural inlet or outlet'. The irrigation districts in Cameron County maintain those resaca beds and use a gate and diversion system to charge them with irrigation water. This source is more detailed and references the first use of resacas for irrigation in 1906.

https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/rbrnp

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In CAMERON County, rainfall has been sparse leaving all dryland acres in a lurch, and you would be hard pressed to get an irrigated farmer to say today 'things are fine' - as I understood you to mean by 'all the recent rains'.

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You would be pressed to EVER get an irrigated farmer to say, "things are fine" in Cameron County.

FIF

But I digress, I will close my discussion on this topic.

Simply, they pump.

Not trying to start a fight 05, but your first point is the wrong attitude in today's Ag world. 'Swiping' land is generally frowned upon, but your assertion that 'land you could farm in the future' being leased would make the new tenant a target is off base. Farmers seem to think that any land around them that is possibly for lease belongs to them and everyone else should back off and that ideology just rubs me wrong.

I started farming in 09 on some family land and my brother joined me 3 years ago. Together, we have bought all of our family land, which wasn't a whole lot, and I have a 300 acre lease I've had since 2010 and we've leased more land in the last 2 years. Last year, we leased a section that was for lease because the prior tenant retired. It was a hot commodity in the area due to its size and layout that made it a perfect farm for stocker cattle. My brother and I basically outbid everyone else, including the locale bigwigs. Coffee shop talk started and we were the brunt of a lot of small town chat, but I guarantee I will get a call from the landowner the next time a place is up for lease. My situation might be different from a new guy since my family has been farming here for over a century, but I'm not going to blackball someone for outbidding me on land. We are capitalists, not socialists

Didn't mean to derail the thread, btw. Maybe the whiskey is getting to me tonight. I'd like to talk with GinMan and SunrayAg, as I think their cotton guys could benefit from what my company is currently doing in cotton.

I have a unique situation with the land I farm. My wife's family settled the land we farm today therefore we have no land payment. We use cash to buy equipment and budget for new equipment before we need it. We don't run brand new state if the art tractors or combines but we get the job done.

Drone technology is interesting. There are several companies that map fields with them and the main question many farmers have is "what can I do with this picture". I have not personally researched it as I'm just now getting my FIL to adopt pivot monitoring and control device (disclaimer, I work for a manufacturer of pivot telemetry).

When it comes to leasing farmground, your reputation is what gets you the opportunity to bid on that ground. Without direct ties to the community, or some growers I envision it being difficult to get that opportunity. I would suggest talking to one of your current customers and ask about leasing corners around a pivot. You may have a close enough relationship with that customer to get started in this manner. Good luck!

Now that's a cool little rig. Mounted on a 420 it's still a 2 cylinder tractor - but the cylinders are vertical unlike the traditional poppin' John where the cylinders were horizontal.

https://instagr.am/p/Bez6_9PAUHb

I was going to argue with you on the upright, then I saw it was a 420. You are correct. The 420, the follow-on M, and the L and LA all used upright two cylinders that fired evenly, as opposed to the horizontal poppers. The L used a Hercules engine in early production, a Deere motor later.

And the 435 had a 2-53 Detroit Diesel. I've actually seen one in the wild in TN.

Centerpole90 said:

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And the 435 had a 2-53 Detroit Diesel. I've actually seen one in the wild in TN.

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Forgot that one. I saw one north of Santa Fe several years ago. I also saw one sell at an auction in Amarillo a few years ago. They started it...in gear...and nearly hit the auctioneers truck. Will look for that video.